Which AR 15 for a budget? of $500-700

chrism101

Im Looking for a NEW AR 15 preferrably A3 with A2 handle or just an A2.
Im just looking for one low cost model not for match shooting but plinking and shooting varmits.
I know Im not getting a Colt but how do other brands stand up and what is desireable in that price range.

Im considering Bushmaster, Olympic arms, Armalite, DPMS,Rock River Arms American Spirit Arms, Etc.

Also what are the opinions on Chromed barrels versus non chrome and 1 in 7 or 1 in 9 twist rifling.

Ill probably be feeding it cheap ammo for a little bit but I would like a fair amount of accuracy with a 55 grain bullet.

So far Im leaning towards an OLYMPIC ARMS PCR 5/AR15 and the Eagle Arms by ArmaliteM-15 A-2 carbine

any help or opinions are appreciated

grizzclaw

I bought the oly a few months ago, and I like it better than the Colt M4 that I had. It functions flawlessly w/GI mags, is accurate with most ammo, and it cost me $640 out the door. You will want to reload for the best long range accuracy. The South African battle packs have worked the best for me so far in the cheap ammo department. Mine has the 1 in 9 twist, I was told it was better for the lighter bullet. Oly has a web site you can check out for more info on their products. There is also a dealer on here, her seller name is Paula, she starts the dpms around $625 on her auctions. I've been to her shop, and she is great to deal with.

Thanks, Grizztribefans@sssnet.com

vol fan

In my experience you cannot stabilize a 55 grain bullet in a 1/9 twist. I tried, and I wish I could.

For the price, my DPMS lo-pro shoots 69 grain sierras into 0.625 all day and 60 gr Nosler partitions into 0.90 at the same point of impact; MSRP on the gun is currently $ 699 I believe.

I found a Rock River A2 upper on e-bay for $ 325 and a RRA lower on AR15.com for $ 235; it'll shoot the same 69 gr Sierras into 1" at 50 yards with open sights, and my eyes aren't that good!!!

I think the Les Baer Varminters are really sexy, but for the $ 1100 they cost I'd rather have these two!



______________________

Proud member of the vast right wing conspiracy

cowdoc

i have a bushmaster h bar A2 i have had no trouble with it at all a lot of good things said about bushmaster here.
was shooting it yesterday afternoon at a 5 gal bucket at little over 300 yds put three shots in a three inch group with open sites using 55gr black hills shells.
doc

I dont give my guns without somebody getting hurt!
on edit at 100yds open sites i can shoot a 1" group and also welcome to GB pretty good site here.


Edited by - cowdoc on 08/11/2002 21:47:47

hotrodusa

A good place to learn about the AR-15 rifle is at www.ar15.com get in there forums and you could read all night.


There are a lot of controversy on barrels, Twist rate, Crome lined or not crome lined, Crome chamber or no crome chamber, barrel length, heavy or light barrel, ect., ect.

I like a 1-7 twist 20 inch non crome lined, With a crome chamber, Heavy barrel. This is only my openion and what I have the best luck with. I went through a drum full of barrels, some work better then others,I had alot of fun with the shorter barrels, But I came to the conclusion that the 20" Is best, For me anyway. Twist rates can be another topic, Quality is an issue , so you will here alot of controversy on that topic.

As far as brand name of rifle, I like armalite alot, I had some bad experiance with bushmaster,but heard alot of good about bushmaster, So go figure. I would X out dpms, There service dept. sucks in my experiance. Olympic arms I give a thumbs up, I only had one of there guns for a short time and worked ok.
When buying ammo for plinking, Its best to buy in bulk, 1000, 1600 round at a time, And spend enough to get a good quality name brand, SURPLUS, This is your best investment. Look in shotgun news or gun list for ammo.

Robert


Robert

4wheeler

I own a Bushmaster A3 shorty with the 16 inch barrel. I chose the short barrel because it would be carried on my 4-wheeler.I shoot open sights for now but I want to put a holigram on it in the future.I saw this gun 2 weeks ago for $699 at a gun show.I have no complaints with this gun,I gave $750 for it about 9 months ago.The local gun dealer had a Colt right beside it for $895,I bought what I could afford.My gun has 1-9 twist.GO TO BUSHMASTER.COM AND YOU CAN READ Q&A ON BUSHMASTER AR-15.Oh yeah,welcome to the forum!!!!!

"It was like that when I got here".

Edited by - 4wheeler on 08/11/2002 22:37:57

chrism101

Thanks for the welcome , and for the excellent info.
I look forward to talking with you all some more as I move into learning the AR-15. So Ill look further into the models you guys spoke of and see if I can find one for a happy medium. And of course Ill know what to look for at the guns shows that are coming up the next 3 wk ends. Looks like Ill search hard on offerings of the Olympic, Armalite and Bushmaster rifles.

Thanks again,
Chris M

cwinn

My olympic arms ar-15 shoots sub 2" groups at at 100 yds with match ammo and a 3 power scope, all with standard barrel and non-free floated handguards. my buddys dpms low-pro he bought for under 600 bucks shoots sub moa all day long. i like both guns and neither has had a sinlge malfunction. whatever you choose, good luck.

kimberkid

I would never buy another complete AR - as simple as they are, just assemble it yourself and save $150 - $200.

Pick up a stripped lower (around $125) and a kit ... several makers have them but the ones I like best are from M&A Parts ($420) the upper is already assembled, barrel is 1 in 9" the parts are all mil-spec ... nothing cheezy about them, the parts are made on Sendra equipment. Sendra was a military contractor back in the 60's-70's owned by Dick Drasen, company is now ran by his children. Service is excellent from these people and they all know their stuff.

I've assembled several of them and always gotten sub-moa with the 16" or 20" barrel shooting 55 grain bullets.


Edit* Oh yea, Howdy and Welcome!

======================================================
Just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you!kimberkid@gunbroker.zzn.com

Edited by - kimberkid on 08/12/2002 07:16:52

leeblackman

Here some pretty low priced AR's. $500?

http://www.joeken.com/ar15.htm

If I'm wrong please correct me, I won't be offended.

The sound of a 12 gauge pump clears a house fatser than Rosie O eats a Big Mac !

Matt45

For the money, I am fully behind Bushmaster rifles, I have had one for about two years and think that it is of higher quality than the M16A2 I carry when at work as an Infantryman. Early on, I had sent my upper reciever back to Bushmaster to change a couple of options, (reciever style, sights, type of foward assist) and have found that the service dept is OUTSTANDING. They credited me for the parts they exchanged since there was such a low round count through them, and the charge to me was minimal.

As far as ammo purchase, HotrodUSA is in the X-ring. Quality surplus NATO ammo in quantity is the way to go. Purchase a small lot of it first, shoot it from a bench, standing, kneeling, rapid, slow---ALL modes of engagement techniques. If you are happy with it, purchase a case at a time, two if you can afford it and are that pleased. Should you ever find another ammo that outperforms it, is cheaper and the same, whatever- sell it here on GB and get your money back out of it.


Now for the lengthy answer to your twist rate/ bullet wieght question:


Excerpted from: Wounding Effects of the U.S. Military M193 (M16A1) and M855 (M16A2) Bullet Cartridges

Exaggerated descriptions of the wounding effects of the M16 rifle bullet flourish as great works of urban lore. One fable describes a bullet that tumbles end-over-end in flight as soon as it exits the muzzle of the rifle. Another legend provides a dramatic account of an unstable, super-high velocity bullet that tumbles and chews its way through flesh like a buzz saw. Although there appears to be a tinge of half-truth behind these entertaining and awe-inspiring mythical tales, these stories do not represent an accurate description of the wounding characteristics of the M16 bullet.
When the M16 cartridge is fired and the bullet is propelled down the bore, the bore's rifling imparts a gyroscopic spin to the bullet. This gyroscopic rotation is needed to maintain point forward stabilization of the bullet as it flies through the air. This method of bullet stabilization is identical to the rotational spin applied to a football when thrown by a quarterback (American football).


Both the M193(55Gr) and M855(62Gr) bullets demonstrate similar terminal performance, when fired from rifles fitted with a 20-inch or longer barrel.

Shooting the M193 or M855 from a rifle with a barrel length less than 14.5-inches produces insufficient muzzle velocity to achieve the terminal performance described above. A rifle fitted with a 14.5-inch barrel is adequate for close-quarters battle. For engagements anticipated at greater than room distance but less than 100 yards, a rifle fitted with a 16.5-inch barrel should be employed to ensure sufficient velocity.

The older 55-grain M193 (M16A1) cartridge is not sensitive to rifling twist rate and can be fired in rifles with 1:12, 1:9 and 1:7 rates of twist. However, the newer M855 (M16A2) cartridge is best used with a rifling twist rate of 1:7 or 1:9. When the M855 is fired in a rifle with a slower rate of twist the longer 62-grain bullet can yaw up to 70 degrees in free trajectory through the air, substantially degrading accuracy.

References:
Fackler, Martin L.: "Wounding Patterns of Military Rifle Bullets." International Defense Review 1/1989, 59-64.

I hope all of this helps you in your decision.

Matt


Reserving my Right to Arm Bears!!!!

Edited by - Matt45 on 08/12/2002 14:58:27

4GodandCountry

I bought my Bushmaster used in like new condition from an individual for a pos taurus PT111 and 200 bucks. That put me in at @ $500.00 I also recieved a 30rnd high cap mag and a 20 rnder and a mil spec sling. It shoots flawlessly, I put a leopold gilmore red dot on top and at 50 meters off hand can keep a 30 round mag inside a golf ball sized area. I imagine if I put a 4 power compact leopold or burris I could do the same at 100 meters.

When Clinton left office they gave him a 21 gun salute. Its a damn shame they all missed....