Febiger & Batavia 22s

cowpoke 75

Looking for some one who has Febiger or Batavia 22s? I have been collecting them, would like to find some one who allso has some of the same. Thanks.

Mooseyard

How about a couple of Pics. I collect rimfire guns in general, and I haven't heard of these before. More info would be appreciated. Thanks

rufe-snow

Very interesting guns, forerunners of the Savage Model 1912. There was also a similar semi-auto rifle made in Germany at the same time. Your not going to believe the name, "SCHMEISSER".

As far as I know, the relationship between these 4 manufacturers is unknown.

There is a excellent article in the old "Gun Collectors Digest", 5th Edition regarding these guns.

The author of the above article contends that the first .22 Cal. semi-auto pistol made was a Batavia, not a Colt. And has pictures of it in the article.

drsck

It's been several years since I read the article on the Baker 22s, which were made in Batavia, New York, but if I remember correctly the Baker came after the Savage. In fact, Savage sued Baker and won, with part of the settlement being that Baker had to cease manufacturing the model. Baker was, however, allowed to dispose of units and parts in inventory through sales, provided the name was scrubbed off the guns. As a result some folks have speculated that there were more Baker 22s sold without the company name that with it. If you find one of the scrubbed guns, you can usually tell it's a Baker by the forearm. The Baker version had a very straight, plain and smooth forearm without any checkering, banding or rings, making it look almost like the forearm was made from a dowl rod. The company eventually became Batavia Metal Products and its successor is still in business today. Unfortunately, none of the Baker records have survived. At least that's what I concluded after looking and poking around for more than twenty years. I did manage to talk to several people who worked for Baker, had relatives who worked there or knew someone who had worked there. None of their information was very helpful or interesting. I never did get a transcript of the trail between Savage and Baker, although I did read the disposition. I always wondered where the folks from Schmeisser were during all this. They seemed to predate both Baker and Savage. There used to be a fellow who was very active among shotgun collectors, (Parker or Fox Collectors Assoc.?) who had a great deal of knowledge about Baker, but I have not seen him at any of the big shows in several years. The only other point to add is that a few years ago there was a young fellow who had started collecting information and pictures of Bakers, mostly shotguns, with the intent of turning it into a book. Best of luck and keep looking -- Steve

bfgco

I think that , around 1908 or so, Baker contracted with Febiger of New Orleans to build the Febiger 22. I am away from my notes, but I think this gun was in 22 short. It was an unusual design in that it operated as a pump and a semi-automatic. Nicely but plainly finished , the guns receiver did look like a Savage. In fact, a Febiger or Baker model of this rifle was in the Savage collection several years ago. It seems that Febiger could not pay, and Baker, with lots of guns in inventory, became a seller of the 22, remarked Model 1 with Batavial on the gun. Later the Model 2 and possibly another model came out in 22long and 22 long rifle. Not a successful venture, the production of these ceased around 1912.

pact

I collect the Febiger/Batavia rifles. Henry and John C. Febiger produced this rifle around 1909 to 1913ish. Febiger had all of the patents. I have copies of all of these patents. Baker Gun and Forge (Batavia)produced the rifle for Febiger. Also an engineer from Baker (Tomlinson) designed the semi auto trigger. It was initially produced in semi auto, then in pump action only. Most of the articles writen about them are incorrect. Some marked Model #1. All early guns were chambered in 22 short,sometime in mid production they started making .22 long rifle. Some not marked at all. the only way I can tell the unmarked guns apart is that Bactavia's had a different slide release, or none at all. All had smooth forearms. I have never seen a factory checkered rifle, although I have seen some that were checkered. In my collection I have the earlest(5X)and latest(7XXX)serial number I have seen. You can email me to talk about them.

Pact

rufe-snow

quote:Originally posted by pact
I collect the Febiger/Batavia rifles. Henry and John C. Febiger produced this rifle around 1909 to 1913ish. Febiger had all of the patents. I have copies of all of these patents. Baker Gun and Forge (Batavia)produced the rifle for Febiger. Also an engineer from Baker (Tomlinson) designed the semi auto trigger. It was initially produced in semi auto, then in pump action only. Most of the articles writen about them are incorrect. Some marked Model #1. All early guns were chambered in 22 short,sometime in mid production they started making .22 long rifle. Some not marked at all. the only way I can tell the unmarked guns apart is that Bactavia's had a different slide release, or none at all. All had smooth forearms. I have never seen a factory checkered rifle, although I have seen some that were checkered. In my collection I have the earlest(5X)and latest(7XXX)serial number I have seen. You can email me to talk about them.

Pact



How does the Schmeisser, fit into the picture? Is the Batavia pistol shown in the Gun Collectors Digest article, the first .22 semi-auto pistol made?

pact

Rufe-Snow.

I don't think there is a connection between the Schmeisser any any of these rifles. If you look closely at the Schmeisser you can tell that mechanically it is a totally different rifle. The take down screw is in a different palce and the trigger mechanism is different. I believe as I do in the case of the Febiger that they used the Savage 1903 as the platform to develope their semi auto rifle. I believe Febiger used the Savage design WAAAY too much and that is why the rifle was short lived. I feel Savage sued Febiger/Baker for patent infringments. On the pistol it is my thought that this gun was made after the production run stopped. I have found no patents concerning this pistol. The reason I believe this is the barrel markings on the pistol is Gun Collector's Digest were altered and the serial number was very low. I do not feel a production gun would have left the factory that way.

Pact

cowpoke 75

I have one that has no mod.no., the only markings or on barrel that read 22 cal. long rifle crimped smokeless ctg.ser. no. 6918,it is missing the clip. I have a clip from a savage 1903 that seams to fit.Would like to know if this rifle is a Febiger or a Baker. All so what value of this rifle would be? Thank you everone for your replies.If anyone wants to E-mail me with info. it is tinhorn@brightok.net Thanks

pact

Cowpoke.

I have one just like yours, 7xxx serial number. I feel that these late guns are just generic. I believe Baker/Batavia produced all of the guns. As drsck stated the late guns were "scrubbed" or had no markings, in an effort to liquidate their stock of guns and parts. The magazine for the .22lr and the Savage 1903 were similar but not the same. Heres a picture of some of mine. The bottom rifle is a Savage 1903.

Pact

bfgco

I have seen pictures of a Batavia pistol, but frankly it looks like a pistol made from the Batavia rifle. A pretty decent job, though.