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M1835 Springfield

mparssfomparssfo Member Posts: 14 ✭✭
edited March 2011 in Ask the Experts
I have a M1835 Springfield percussion conversion in fairly good condition. I believe there is a lot of history to this piece. It has carvings, brands and initials. Can anyone tell me what they might mean? The photos are here;

http://s1109.photobucket.com/albums/h430/mparssfo/M1835 Springfield/

I wish this firearm could talk.

Does anyone know a ballpark estimate on what it may be worth?

VR,
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    Spider7115Spider7115 Member, Moderator Posts: 29,714 ******
    edited November -1
    Your musket began life as a US Model 1816, Type III, .69 caliber flintlock. Most of these were converted to percussion in the 1840's and used in both the Mexican War and the American Civil War. The metal stampings are arsenal inspector marks and the india ink markings in the wood are US Government inspectors initials, or "cartouches".

    Your hammer screw has been replaced, the rear sling swivel is missing, and it appears the metal has been cleaned and the wood has been varnished. However, it appears to be a nice piece overall and should bring in the $750-$800 range.
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    rufe-snowrufe-snow Member Posts: 18,650 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It appears from your photos that it's a Model 1816 Flintlock Musket that has been converted to percussion. The Model 1816 is one of the more common of the U.S. Muskets, over 600,000 were made in both Springfield and Harpers Ferry, in a period of over 25 years, between 1816 and the 1840's.

    The small letters on the steel parts are probably inspectors markings. Also the cartouches on the wood stock would also be U.S. government inspectors markings.

    Flayderman values the 1816 conversions between $600 & $900, depending on condition.
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    mparssfomparssfo Member Posts: 14 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thank you both for your rapid response. Any idea what the large three initials on the rear stock are? Would they be government marks as well?
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    Spider7115Spider7115 Member, Moderator Posts: 29,714 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by mparssfo
    Thank you both for your rapid response. Any idea what the large three initials on the rear stock are? Would they be government marks as well?

    Most likely the soldier's initials. They commonly marked them like that since there were no serial numbers then.
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    firstharmonicfirstharmonic Member Posts: 1,061 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Going to respectfully disagree with Spider on this one; the minor missing and replacement parts do not affect the value as much as the extreme polishing and refinishing. Finish is as much a "part" of your musket as, say, the hammer or ramrod. You can buy authentic replacement parts from a place like Lodgewood, for example, but that finish is gone forever.

    You did not state bore condition. If not too heavily pitted your musket is worth about $600.00 in today's economy. In the last year or so I've bought two of these, right here on GunBroker. And I was picky; I had plenty to choose from. Prices are down. Good if you're a buyer but not so good if you're selling.

    If you're not in need of money and don't mind holding on to it, I would just keep it. Our economy is cyclical and it will get better. As things improve the value on that musket will increase. In a normal economy (whatever that means) Spider's figures would be accurate. Just right not now.

    Edit; Robert - Things change. Time was, few folks cared about these old muskets. When Bannerman had the concrete poured for the wharves for their island they used musket barrels for re-rod. This was back in the latter 19th century and I'm not saying that your Grandfather was around then but that's how these guns were valued at one time. Your photos of the breech end, for example, show areas where one usually finds the heaviest pitting but on this gun show clear evidence of being sanded partially smooth. And I would guess that your Grandpa was trying to clean up and preserve and partially restore this old warhorse. He didn't sand away any cartouches or dates or anything, he just cleaned things up, did some polishing, lightly sanded the wood and applied a new finish. He probably put twenty dollars worth of labor in a five dollar musket (just guessing but you get the idea). He valued it. And it is easy today to say what he might have done different because hindsight is always 20-20.
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    mparssfomparssfo Member Posts: 14 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I see. This is a surprise to me. When my grandpa went to have something redone he unfortunately had it blued. Not refinished or polished. I suppose back then the way guns were valued differed than how they do it today. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have deliberately gone and devalued his weapons. But, if it looks polished than I suppose it is. I had high hopes this would have been a piece he didn't touch. I have several weapons he devalued considerably by having them reblued.

    He had a tendency to attempt to restore most of the weapons to their "original" condition. This involved a great many dollars spent. He said it increased their value. This was in the early 90's. Had he known it devalued nearly everything I'm sure he wouldn't have. He did not shoot any piece except once. Usually shortly after purchase. Sometimes this required a tire swing. (Another fond memory)

    After a lifetime of thinking I potentially owned my son's tuition in guns I have learned recently that many of them are so devalued it isn't even worth the money for supplies to keep them up.

    Some are still worth a fair chunk of change though. But I'll continuously need help identifying them and getting values for them. I can't afford an appraiser. They are bloodthirsty out here. I just have to go by word of mouth and assumptions.
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    ltcdotyltcdoty Member Posts: 4,169 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by mparssfo
    Thank you both for your rapid response. Any idea what the large three initials on the rear stock are? Would they be government marks as well?


    The initials on the stock opposite the lock is a U.S. Gov't inspectors cartouche. Years ago the Dixie Gun Catalog had a list of U.S. Gov't inspectors initials and the dates they worked,in the back part of the catalog.
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    Spider7115Spider7115 Member, Moderator Posts: 29,714 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by ltcdoty
    quote:Originally posted by mparssfo
    Thank you both for your rapid response. Any idea what the large three initials on the rear stock are? Would they be government marks as well?


    The initials on the stock opposite the lock is a U.S. Gov't inspectors cartouche. Years ago the Dixie Gun Catalog had a list of U.S. Gov't inspectors initials and the dates they worked,in the back part of the catalog.

    He means the large initials scratched into the buttstock.
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