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To Port or Not to Port???

cityboycityboy Member Posts: 2 ✭✭
edited February 2008 in Ask the Experts
I have a Weatherby Mark V .300 Mag that kicks like a mule. I have only used it to hunt big game occasionally but just booked a plainsgame safari. I can't decide if I should have it ported, Magna-ported, install a muzzlebreak or just leave it alone and learn to live with the recoil. Is it better to port or install the muzzlebreak? Is either worth enduring the increased noise? What does this do the resale value of the gun?

Any insight is appreciated. Thanks!

Comments

  • perry shooterperry shooter Member Posts: 17,105 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hello I would advise you have a limbsaver or other high tech recoil pad installed and see if this does not make the recoil livable .Then you can tell the GUN-SMITH installer that you want to be able to replace factory pad at later date this will not hurt resale value.
  • v35v35 Member Posts: 12,710 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Forget porting or muzzle brakes. Reduced hearing doesn't come back.
    You wouldn't want to hunt with hearing protection where you'd stand a good chance of hearing damage from the increased muzzle blast.
    In addition, it's a real pain in the eass to shoot next to a ported/muzzle braked (same thing)/shotgun or rifle at the range even with hearing protection.
  • j3081j3081 Member Posts: 332 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    hi,,,recently bought a ruger m77 in 338 caliber older style,tang safety,,before i received,,,made arrangements with a gunsmith for a brake and pad,,,now i am 6'0,,,165 lbs,,,rotater cup shot and a scar at the bridge of my nose from a 45-70,,,you do not want to put a brake on the gun,,,i'd say a sims limbsaver pad and a scope with a 4 inch eye relief would solve the problem,,,directly after buying mine being only 4 miles from camp,,,fired 12 shots,,,4 different loads,,,no pain,,,no black and blue,,,didn't have to buy nothing,,,shoots like a 12 ga. 3 inch mag,,,just my 2 cents,,,joe
  • Lucky007Lucky007 Member Posts: 308 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    To really help out the recoil and muzzel rise, I would recommend both a Limbsaver recoil pad and getting the gun Magnaported. I have had several guns Magnaported (rifles pistols and shotguns) and so have quite a few of my shooting buddies. There is no noticable increase in the sound signature with the Magnaporting,(relative to what the induvidual gun and load sounded like before the porting), it does not effect the accuracy or effectiveness and it does significantly reduce the muzzel climb. Muzzel brakes are obnoxiously loud and annoying to those around you, and can damage your hearing if you aren't using some kind of protection.
  • triple223taptriple223tap Member Posts: 385 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Your recoil, about 25 lb-ft is the same as a 12 ga trap load, and most folks can handle 100s of those per day. What's the problem?

    http://www.chuckhawks.com/shotgun_recoil_table.htm

    http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm
  • nononsensenononsense Member Posts: 10,928 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    cityboy,

    Large numbers of folks really don't have a solid understanding of recoil and what can be used to deter it. So we get comparisons between shotguns and high power rifles since the numbers appear to correlate when in reality the physical recoil that these numbers represent bears no resemblance from one to the other.

    In the first place, most PH's wouldn't recommend the .30 caliber, 150 gr. bullets as used in the example. They would depend more on the 180's an 200's for the construction and additional energy. The second is illustrated in the excerpt below dealing with recoil sharpness. Amateurs forget to take this into account.

    Recoil Sharpness

    "The A-Square Reloading Manual (1996) has an interesting discussion of recoil and its effect on the body. One argument they put forth is that the time of the recoil is neglected in the free recoil numbers. Imagine two rifles of the same weight, both shooting cartridges of the same momentum. If one shoots a 100 gn bullet at 3000 fps and the other a 200 gn bullet at 1500 fps, the free recoil velocity (and energy) is nearly the same. However, the faster bullet will exit the barrel in much less time (roughly half), so the acceleration (to the free recoil velocity) is much higher. Since one's shoulder is being accelerated, and since force is mass times acceleration, the faster cartridge will hurt more. One might say the recoil of the faster cartridge would be "sharper." "

    The .300 Weatherby Magnum does kick like a mule when used in a configuration that is not suited to your body type and shape. Rifles with heavy recoil can be tamed by reshaping the stock to fit the shooter better and redirecting the recoil. If the stock doesn't allow for proper fitting then I suggest replacing it with one that can be fitted correctly. Additional help can be gotten by using a technologically advanced recoil pad such as the Sims Limb Saver.

    The PH's and guides that I know don't appreciate muzzle brakes because of the damage it can cause them in the line of duty trying to help a client. So I doubt that your PH is going to be any different in this regard. I'd skip the muzzle brake and make your PH a happy guy. MagnaPorting will help with muzzle rise but has little if any real effect on the recoil directed back into your shoulder. If the quicker second shot is that important, you could consider this path.

    Spend you money on getting this stock to fit or getting another one that can be fitted. You'll be amazed at the difference between a properly fitting stock and one from the factory that's made to fit no one in specifically. It's like night and day.

    Best.
  • triple223taptriple223tap Member Posts: 385 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    nononsense - I'm not sure that your description of recoil is real-world correct. Think of it this way: shotgun or rifle, the lead has left the barrel before the gun has moved any significant distance at all. If not for that fact, if the gun moved while the lead was still traveling down the barrel, it wouldn't be possible to hit anything. 99.99% of gun movement takes place after the charge has left the barrel, and recoil time is 1000x or more longer than shot or bullet residence time in the barrel. The force of pressure against breech may be microseconds, but the recoil force against the shoulder is milliseconds or longer.

    The lead being gone, the gun then recoils in direct proportion to the energy imparted as the charge travelled down the barrel. How far and how hard the gun recoils is in direct proportion to the kinetic energy imparted, and inversely proportional to gun weight.

    ie, the gun doesn't know what the velocity or weight of the load was, it only knows the energy.

    I do agree, however, that gun fit is the single most important factor in perceived or felt recoil, and porting does very little to reduce recoil.

    Perceived recoil from a shotgun is always less because a shotgun is fired at moving targets. A shotgun fired from a rest, as in patterning, aways produces much higher perceived recoil. 100 trap targets is nothing. 100 trap loads fired at paper from a rest is very, very unpleasant.
  • nononsensenononsense Member Posts: 10,928 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    triple223tap,

    "I'm not sure that your description of recoil is real-world correct."

    First of all, you're not sure. You're missing some information which is not unusual with anecdotal explanations.

    Second, and I'm not trying to be condescending, I suggest that you use a good search engine and find the detailed explanations of recoil velocity, recoil energy and recoil moment. There is some math involved by way of examples but it helps with the concepts.

    This isn't stuff I make up just to post something on an Internet forum. It's backed up with real experience, lots of it.

    Best.
  • triple223taptriple223tap Member Posts: 385 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Second, and I'm not trying to be condescending, I suggest that you use a good search engine and find the detailed explanations of recoil velocity, recoil energy and recoil moment. There is some math involved by way of examples but it helps with the concepts.

    Not to be condescending, but I am an engineer and I can do math -

    Here's a simple plug-in to calculate recoil energy:

    http://www.rfgc.org/reload/recoil_calc.htm

    If you refer back to the original formula: E = 1/2 (Wr / 32) (Wb x MV + 4700 x Wp / 7000 x Wr)squared (Lyman Reloading handbook), you can solve for recoil velocity.

    Recoil moment, of course, is dependent on the geometry of each particular gun. To what extent recoil moment is significant, and to what extent porting reduces it are subjects of debate.

    I'm sorry you took my "not sure" to mean that I am unsure. I used that wording in an attempt to be polite, rather than saying something like "dead sure".

    One thing of which I am dead sure is that perceived recoil is a complex issue which can be far removed from calculated recoil. Gun fit, shooter experience and technique, shooter weight, strength, build; even mental state, anticipation of recoil and the like. More than one shooter has reduced perceived recoil simply by using better hearing protection.
  • carbine100carbine100 Member Posts: 3,071 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have two lightweight magnums that WERE punishing from the bench. I put muzzle brakes on both of them and I am very happy with their performance. I doo however either wear electronic hearing protection when carrying or take ear plugs to insert if given time. Ran up on an eight-pointer chasing a doe in route to my stand this year that required a quick shot, and did not notice the increased report at the shot.
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