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need help de-priming Berdan primers

tinmantinman Member Posts: 126 ✭✭
edited February 2008 in Ask the Experts
I have tried several times of de-priming but i seem to keep breaking the rods or drill bits i use. i am working on some 8mm Mauser ammo which i hope to reload so i can shoot cast bullets. Any advise would be helpful. And since brass prices are through the roof i would like to re-use these cases. Thanks Tinman

Comments

  • bobskibobski Member Posts: 17,868 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    boxers.....[;)]
    Retired Naval Aviation
    Former Member U.S. Navy Shooting Team
    Former NSSA All American
    Navy Distinguished Pistol Shot
    MO, CT, VA.
  • varianvarian Member Posts: 2,250 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    many years ago i read an article on filling the case with water and either using your expander ball or a wooden dow at neck size to allow hydrolic pressure to push out the primer.
  • flyingtorpedoflyingtorpedo Member Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I hope you have a place to get berdan primers from. If it's 8mm mauser ammo I'd think that the original primers were corrosive and in that case I wouldn't risk reloading them. I'd do what was already mentioned, sell the brass as scrap and get some boxer cases.
  • rufe-snowrufe-snow Member Posts: 18,649 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Military ammo, chances are the primers are crimped. The ones I have done in the far distant past came out easy as long as you were able clamp the case in a vise with padded jaws. Then drive a sharpened scriber in at a angle to lever the primers out. The only reason I was wasting my time on repriming berdan brass was that it was 11mm Mauser. IMHO your really wasting your time. I would only reprime berdan brass, if I absolutely couldn't get my hands on boxer primed brass.
  • heavyironheavyiron Member Posts: 1,421 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hi,

    Throw them out and buy some once-fired or new brass.

    Midway USA sells a berdan deprimer tool. It is like a crowbar to pry the primer out.

    http://www.midwayusa.com/

    Good luck.

    Heavyiron
  • givettegivette Member Posts: 10,886
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by tinman
    I have tried several times of de-priming but i seem to keep breaking the rods or drill bits i use. i am working on some 8mm Mauser ammo which i hope to reload so i can shoot cast bullets. Any advise would be helpful. And since brass prices are through the roof i would like to re-use these cases. Thanks Tinman


    Please post where you find the berdan primers. Thank you, Joe
  • scrubberguyscrubberguy Member Posts: 219 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Tinman:
    I'm going to have to agree with everyone else: why are you bothering?

    I'm not sure if you can find berdan primers(I have heard that they have a bunch of different sizes) so even if you have a source you still might not get the right ones?

    I suspect you think you might be able to "convert" the case to standard primers?

    If this is your train of thought forget it! While anything is possible the amount of labor to turn out even one passable case is going to be a lot! I know I tried it for a big bunch of 45 auto cases I had given to me once!

    I actually sold the brass and bought a small lot of reloadable 45 cases and was a lot happier in the end!
  • Wolf.Wolf. Member Posts: 2,223 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    --
    I have a couple rhetorical questions:
    ---If you have the time, and want to work at it, why not reload Berdan cases?
    ---Will conventional reloading equipment handle the Berdan primers without detonating them?

    The "hydraulic method" of removing the berdan primers is probably the best, but get ready to get wet. heavyiron and varian mentioned the two most practical ways that I know of to deprime Berdan primers. Practical, that is, for the individual.

    As you may know, the Berdan style brass cases basically have a primer pocket that has a little raised area at the bottom of the pocket, right in the middle of the pocket. This is the hard surface that the primer charge impacts, causing primer ignition, when the firing pin strikes the primer (Boxer type primers each carry their own little metal flap(s) that serve as this hard imnpact surface.) On either side of the raised metal impact surface are two flash holes that allow the ignition flash from the primer to engage the propellant inside the case, thereby launching the bullet.

    I have a feeling that if you tried to seat a Boxer primer in a Berdan case, the primer would detonate. I don't know this for sure, though.

    I can't even picture how the Berdan primer removal tool (the one that prys them out) works, because the Berdan primer is seated slightly below flush in the case. It would be interesting to see how the tool actually gets a handle on the primer to pry it out!

    The hydraulic method seems straightforward to me. You get something like a Lee Loader depriming base, set the case about half full of water in the base, drop a very close-fitting rod or wood dowel into the case and swat it with a mallet or engage it with a press. The resulting compression of the water in the case will force out the Berdan primer. That's what I would do. Once you get going, it shouldn't be a big deal.

    I would use a brass rod, but any metal rod would work, or even plastic rod. You can buy brass, steel, aluminum etc. rod in small increments (1/32 to 1/64) from McMaster-Carr Supply Company (Google them). McMaster-Carr is as reasonable as any and their shipping charges are fair. If you get lucky, Ace Hardware might have the size you need. Just use a micrometer to determine the inside diameter of the case necks (mic a couple dozen cases and write down the results) and buy rod as close to that as you can get without equaling or being larger than the ID of the smallest case. A rod that's too small will not produce enough hydraulic pressure in the case by allowing too much water to escape out the case neck.

    Most military cases have their primers crimped in. Once you have deprimed the case, you need to remove that crimp from the case, otherwise you will have problems seating a new primer. There are decrimping tools on the market of course, but the question is: Can you use these tools on a Berdan case without screwing up the little raised area (the anvil) in the bottom of the primer pocket???

    Another question arises related to the Berdan cases. How do you clean those flasholes and the primer pocket? Very carefully, I'd guess. I'd probably find some piano wire (Ace Hardware or McMaster-Carr) of a size that just fits into the flash holes, mount that piece of wire in a wooden handle and use that. (In black powder shooting, it's called a nipple pick.) Cleaning the primer pocket would require a little wire brush.

    Where to find Berdan primers? I don't know, but I've got a feeling that you might have to purchase them in a large lot.

    As far as converting the Berdan cases to accept Boxer primers, I believe that probably calls for some precision work. If you are a machinest, then no problemo. If not, try to find the Berdan primers.
  • Hawk CarseHawk Carse Member Posts: 4,365 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    A hundred pieces of Boxer primed brass, with light cast bullet loads and neck sizing (if any) would last roughly forever. I have helped load Berdan primed brass when that was all there was, and it is no fun at all.
  • jonkjonk Member Posts: 10,121
    edited November -1
    All of us have been tempted by the Berdan reloading route. I've tried it on a few cases when PMC primers were available a few years back because 8mm Lebel cases weren't readily available; then GRAF and sons started making them and it became a non issue. Therefore, based on my experience, I offer a few more thoughts to the excellent replies given above.

    Do a search for 'berdan' on the auction side- one gent is selling a hydraulic decapper for 8mm that looks very good. RCBS also makes an auger out unit that works once you get the hang of it. Finally, you CAN deprime in your press if you don't mind getting things wet-

    1. Size your brass. This can be done with standard dies; for RCBS or similar remove the decapping pin. For Lee, loosen the collet, run the case in; it will push the decapper rod up a suitable amount. Re-tighten collet.

    2. Fill a sized case with water, put in the press, with sizing die. Slowly lower the ram until the expander mandrel is JUST in the case mouth. Now bring the handle down smartly. Voila. Decapped. And water all over your press. I do this outside with a Lee C frame press bolted to a board and clamped to a table. Otherwise you get your reloading room soaked.

    3. Let cases dry, and spray the press down with a water displacing oil.

    Regarding priming, you do need Berdan primers; which are hit and miss. It seems a batch comes in every 3-4 years but right now everyone is fresh out. Otherwise standard priming tools can be used. A regular large rifle primer won't fit the hole even IF you grind the anvil out of the berdan case, or if you carefully pull the anvil out of the standard primer with tweezers. Simply a no go. Some guys have successfully used a lathe to cut a new primer pocket to accept a .209 shotgun primer, but due to the huge primer hole these should only be used with light cast loads, NOT full power.

    In short, unless you already have the primers, right now it is a no go. Next time PMC or someone imports some, then it may be possible.

    You can buy the brass from any number of dealers boxer primed, or convert 30-06 brass by resizing and trimming to length.

    All in all entirely not worth it. Even the most oddball cases are available (often at prices up to $3 a case) but if you are judicious in your reloading, use light loads, and anneal necks after every 6-8 reloads, they last forever.

    Best,

    Jon
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