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Win 92 vs 94 ser no.

UncleFuddUncleFudd Member Posts: 146 ✭✭✭
edited February 2008 in Ask the Experts
Hey guys;

I know some of you are very knowledgeable of the serial numbers and manuf dates of Winchesters, so I thought I would come to you for answers.

I have a mod 92 in 25-20, a saddle ring carbine with quite a story of it's origin (how it came to me).
I also have a mod 94 in 38-55 with a 27" oct. barrel.
The SN of the mod 92 is 795XXX and the 94 is 2600XX. My questions have to do with manufacture dates.
It would appear that the mod 92 was made some time in 1915 and the mod 94 in or about 1902.
I thought they only came out with a new model when they finished manuf of the old or in other words they would have discontinued the 92 (predecessor) to begin the new model 94. So it at least seems strange if my years are correct that they were in fact making the model 92 so long after beginning production of the mod 94s. Someone told me that some of the mod 92s were still made as late as 1917 and the earliest of the mod 94s were somewhere around 1899 or 1900.
If this is correct, they continues making the older models for a long time after the new ones were on the market.

I believe my son is comming over tomorrow and if so I will have him help me post pics of both as they are in very good shape and I still shoot both of them in fact quite a bit. Some of you might enjoy seeing them.

Thanks in advance for any enlightenment. It is much appreciated.

Kenny

Comments

  • perry shooterperry shooter Member Posts: 17,390
    edited November -1
    The model 92 takes a completely different class of cartridge PISTOL/RIFLE 38/40 and 44/40 along with 32/20 were all used in both rifle and pistols of that time frame. Model 94 were all in rifle only cartridges when they were made for the first 75 or so years the model 94 in 45 Colt and 44 Mag came much later after the model 92 was discontinued
  • HerschelHerschel Member Posts: 2,035 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The 1892 was in production from 1892 until 1941. The 1894 was in production from 1894 until recent times.
  • Bert H.Bert H. Member, Moderator Posts: 11,274 ******
    edited November -1
    Hello Kenny,

    The Winchester Model 1892 ('92 after April of 1919) and the Model 1894 ('94 after April of 1919) are two distinctly different guns, and they were indeed manufactured simultaneously for many many years. The information you were given about their respective production dates is pure horse manure[xx(].

    In addition to the Models 1892 and 1894 being in production simultaneously, Winchester also manufactured the Model 1873, Model 1886, and Model 1895 lever-action firearms at the same time as the Models 1892 and 1894. Just like Cheverolet and Dodge manufactured many different automobile models at the same time, so did Winchester.

    To give you a bit of factual history, both of these models were invented and patented by John M. Browning, and then sold to Winchester (Browning had a 19-year association with Winchester in his younger years). In the paragraphs below, I will provide you with a brief history of each...

    The Model 1892 was introduced in the year 1892, with the very first guns deliverd to warehouse stock on May 3, 1892. The Model 1892 was simply a Model 1886 (large frame) that was scaled down to handle the same cartridges as the older Model 1873 (44-40, 38-40, and 32-20). It shares the same patent date as the Model 1886 (October 14, 1884, U.S. Patent no. 306,577). It was later offered in a new cartridge developed in 1893... the 25-20 W.C.F. Winchester discontinued the Model 92 (as it was then called) in December 1941, at a total production figure of just over 1,004,000. Your Model 1892 was most likely made 1-2 years later than 1915. Unfortunately, it can not be researched or lettered, as the Cody Firearms Museum only has the records for the first 379,999 Model 1892s made.

    The Model 1894 was introduced in late 1894, with the first guns received in the warehouse on October 20, 1894. The Model 1894 was an entirely new design, and it was made to chamber the longer and more powerful hunting cartridges (38-55 and 32-40 up to May of 1895, when the 30 W.C.F. (30-30) and 25-35 W.C.F. were added to the line. In October of 1901, the 32 Winchester Special was added... this was the last "new" cartridge added. John M. Browning was granted U.S. Patent no. 524,702 on August 21, 1894, which Winchestr promtly bought from him. Manufacture of the Model 1894/94 was continous (through both World Wars), and was wrapped by WINCHESTER in early 1981 when they sold their gun making business and factory to the newly formed U.S. Repeating Arms Co. (U.S.R.A.Co.) All told, almost 5 million of them were made. The U.S.R.A.Co. continued production of the Model 94 right up to March of 19062006, when they closed up shop for good. When the totals for both companys are combined, there were something in the neighborhood of 8 million+ made.

    Your estimate of the dates of manufacture are not accurate... especially for your Model 1894 Sporting Rifle (note that I refer to it by its proper model designation "1894"). Serial numbers do not have "X"s in them... if you want accurate information, I recommend posting the complete serial numbers. That said, your Model 1894 Sporting Rifle was most likely manufactured in August of 1905 versus in 1902. Additionally, the barrel is most likely 28-inches long (which includes the portion of the barrel that is threaded into the receiver frame ring). The standard length was 26-inches, which means that your rifle has a special order barrel.

    Finally (and fortunately), your Model 1894 can be researched and lettered by the Cody Firearms Museum, and as such, the exact date it was received in the warehouse can be determined.
  • UncleFuddUncleFudd Member Posts: 146 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks to all for your help and info.

    Bert H the SN are 795400 for the 92 and 260056 for the 94. I was told at one time that the 94 was one of 15 guns shipped originally to a police dept in New York som e place but I have long ago lost any written info of that if I ever had it.

    You have given me more and better info than I have ever had for either gun and I have had them both for a long time.

    I am a cobtributer to the Cody museum every year and am told I have a letter or look-up for my contribution. I will try to send the info to them if you think I will garner any more than you have already given.

    If not I will not waste the letter as I have a gun that no one has EVER been able to identify, period. I was going to use my look up for that gun as I have it as a wall hangar and really want to find some oinfo in order to make a plaque for it.

    I have copied the information you posted for my son as he is going to have both of the guns very soon and I am sure he will enjoy the info every bit as mush as do I.

    Thanks again to all who have contributed to me education. It appears I have been lead down the path by a few well wishers in the past.

    Kenny
  • HerschelHerschel Member Posts: 2,035 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Bert, I first thought you were referring to the dates in my post as horse manure but on closer reading it appears that the bad info you refer to was provided prior to Uncle Fudd starting the post.

    Check on the date you say U.S.R.A. ceased production of the 94. I believe you are 100 years off. Nobody is perfect. LOL
  • Bert H.Bert H. Member, Moderator Posts: 11,274 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by UncleFudd
    Thanks to all for your help and info.

    Bert H the SN are 795400 for the 92 and 260056 for the 94. I was told at one time that the 94 was one of 15 guns shipped originally to a police dept in New York som e place but I have long ago lost any written info of that if I ever had it.

    You have given me more and better info than I have ever had for either gun and I have had them both for a long time.

    I am a cobtributer to the Cody museum every year and am told I have a letter or look-up for my contribution. I will try to send the info to them if you think I will garner any more than you have already given.

    If not I will not waste the letter as I have a gun that no one has EVER been able to identify, period. I was going to use my look up for that gun as I have it as a wall hangar and really want to find some oinfo in order to make a plaque for it.

    I have copied the information you posted for my son as he is going to have both of the guns very soon and I am sure he will enjoy the info every bit as mush as do I.

    Thanks again to all who have contributed to me education. It appears I have been lead down the path by a few well wishers in the past.

    Kenny


    Hello Kenny,

    Unless your unidentifed gun is a Winchester, Marlin, or L.C. Smith, the Cody Firearms Museum (CFM) will not be able to assist you. Additionally, the CFM can only research a firearm if you already know the Make, Model, and serial number.

    My advice to you, is to start a new post on this forum, and then describe your unidentifed gun in as much detail as possible. If at all possible, post several pictures of it to go along with your written description. With a good description and pictures, I am extremely confident that we can ID the gun for you.

    I highly recommend getting the CFM factory letter for your Model 1894. It will provide you with a bit more information than what I provided. That said, there is only a small chance that there will be any information on where it was originally shipped.
  • Bert H.Bert H. Member, Moderator Posts: 11,274 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Herschel
    Check on the date you say U.S.R.A. ceased production of the 94. I believe you are 100 years off. Nobody is perfect. LOL


    That is a definite fact[:I] Thanks for bringing it to my attention... fixed now[^]
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