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Spang & Wallace

UncleFuddUncleFudd Member Posts: 146 ✭✭✭
edited March 2008 in Ask the Experts
I have tried for several years to find info on this gun.
The plates below the hammers say " Spang & Wallace Philad 4.
On the rib on top is the word London then a word that is unreadable then the word Twist.

The barrel is 37" long with a muzzle bore of 15/16". The gun overall is 57" and weighs 18 lbs.

No one has ever been able to identify it and I would really like to know so that I can make a plaque for it. It currently holds a spot on the wall in my den and it would be fun to be able to tell friends what it is andpossibly where it came from and when.

Hope you all can help, as I don't know who wlse to ask.
I think I have finally figured out how to send pics and have copied a couple for you to see.


[img][/img]2005827117570715870_th.jpg[img][/img]2005808540813436286_th.jpg[img][/img]2005836445166803705_th.jpg[img][/img]2005856044717490490_th.jpg
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    rufe-snowrufe-snow Member Posts: 18,650 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Here is a link to Uncle Fudd's album so the photos can be seen full size.





    http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2005808540813436286
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    Spider7115Spider7115 Member, Moderator Posts: 29,714 ******
    edited November -1
    It's probably London Fine Twist. Have you removed the forestock and looked at the underside of the barrels for proofmarks? Look for either an "ELG" in an oval or crossed scepters with letters.
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    hrfhrf Member Posts: 857 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    (Found with google.com search):

    Question:

    Double barreled,percussion shot gun. Very prominent LONDON on barrel spacer.The left side lock plate is marked Spang&Wallace. Spelling of first name is questionable as the engraving is in script. Are these real manufacturers and any detail on the gun. Thanks Ted

    Answer:

    Spang & Wallace were gunsmiths in Philadelphia Pa. at 94 North Street from 1847 to 1855. They sold imported English shotguns and also made shotguns using English barrels. Shotguns with Philadelphia markings will normally bring a premium price.
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    UncleFuddUncleFudd Member Posts: 146 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    This is what its' all about.
    I have tried for several years to find ANY even a little info including Google and never could.
    You guys have been great and I very much appreciate even this much.

    Spider, I have not tried to take the barrels off of the stock as it appears I have to move the two pins in order to do so and I have been reluctant to do it and take the chance it would break either or both in doing it. BTW, now that I know what I am looking at, the words do appear to be "London Fine Twist". I looked with a 40 power loupe and I am certain now of the Fine as the middle word.
    Thanks much.

    I am going to try this afternoon and will let you know if the proof marks are there.

    HRF, there is no question about the Spang & Wallace as far as being able to read them on the lock plates. Those words along with the "PHILAD4 are quite legible. I thought because of the numeral 4 on the plates and the size of the muzzle bore it would be a 4 bore. One thing for certain you will not hold it up to your shoulder to fire it unless you do it in a hell of a hurry. That thing is heavy with a capital H. I can get it up but cannot hold it there very long so whoever had it or shot it must have been first cousin to charlie atlas.

    I have contacted the people at the Cody Museum and they said to send some pics and all the info I could and they would attempt to get me more info on it also.
    I will try to send to them this week.

    Thanks again and if anyone else ever runs across info on this gun or manuf please let me know.

    UncleFudd
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    hrfhrf Member Posts: 857 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    "Those words along with the "PHILAD4 are quite legible. I thought because of the numeral 4 on the plates and the size of the muzzle bore it would be a 4 bore."

    I think you'll find the 4 is actually an A and that they abbreviated Philadelphia as PHILADA. The gauge will probably be marked under the barrels when you get them off, along with British (or possibly Belgian) proof marks.
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    Spider7115Spider7115 Member, Moderator Posts: 29,714 ******
    edited November -1
    Those barrel wedges should come out fairly easily. I suggest using a piece of wood like a clothes pin or hard plastic to place against them and tap lightly with a hammer so as not to scratch the ends of the wedges.
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    UncleFuddUncleFudd Member Posts: 146 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I took the stock off and I am amazed at how easily the pins slid out of the lugs on this thing.

    I cleaned everything and looked for proof marks and the only thing I can see is something that appears to have been a crossed swords or something else crossed but it is so weak I barely did find even that and it appears to have a "C" in one of the indentions of the cross and perhaps an e in another but so badly worn I am not sure. One end of the cross seems to have a hook or anchor or something similar like a staff with the hook or anchor on the end.

    The 4 as mentioned is most definately a 4 and not an A as suggested. The 4 is set apart from the other lettering and raised almost 1/2 the space between the Spang & Wallace and the Phila. Also it is very easy to read and is no question a numeral 4.

    I cannot find any other markings under the barrels except what appears to be a very small single letter P smack in the middle of the barrel joint. I can find nothing else at all.
    Thanks again guys this has really gotten my curiosity up once again and I am going to do all I can to get more info on this gun.

    When I talked to the Cody museum I told them if it is something they would be interested in, I would consider putting it in the museum for others to see. It seems selfish to keep it for me if it is really rare. We will see.

    UncleFudd
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    hrfhrf Member Posts: 857 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The mark you describe is likely the Birmingham, England proof consisting of crossed scepters with letters B (left), P (lower) and C (right).

    And although I'm sure the last figure on the lockplate looks much like a 4, I'm certain it's an A: Quite often in old print and writing, instead of using an apostrophe as today PHILAD'A the last letter of an abbreviation was raised as you describe.

    However, if the bore measures 15/16" it probably is a 4 gauge!

    A google search for +"Spang & Wallace" +shotgun gets several results and here's one with similar marking:
    http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/admin/product_details.php?itemID=805
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    perry shooterperry shooter Member Posts: 17,390 ✭
    edited November -1
    Great Job HRF seems to me as there was at least a twin of Uncle Fudd's great fire-arm
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    hrfhrf Member Posts: 857 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Added suggestion: Using a dowel or rod of sufficient length, measure the interior depth of each barrel and compare to outside length from where the breech plug would be: It's not that rare to find these still loaded after 100+ years!

    One that size was probably used by a market hunter shooting from a tripod at waterfowl on the surface.
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