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Defender or Officers for CCW

skychaser53skychaser53 Member Posts: 344 ✭✭✭
edited May 2009 in Ask the Experts
I've been looking at pics of Defenders and Officers the last couple days and was wondering which one would be better for CCW..
There for awhile I thought the Officers was like the 5in 1911 and then I saw a pic with the slide pulled back and it had this funny looking tapered barrel. Is the Defender like that also ?

Comments

  • bandcollectorbandcollector Member Posts: 218 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    officers has a 3.5" barrel
    defender has a 3" barrel
    commander has a 4.25"barrel
    government has a 5" barrel
    what somebody carries is a matter of personal preference the difference in the defender vs officers is not enough to matter to me, also they are two of the heaviest choices in that size range.
  • dcs shootersdcs shooters Member Posts: 10,969
    edited November -1
    It's a toss up between the two as they are basicly the same gun.
    The barrel length does not make the difference for CCW. If they made a 5" 1911 with a officer's grip, it would hide just as good.
  • skychaser53skychaser53 Member Posts: 344 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    thanks for the help guys. I've been to several gun stores and no one had a Defender in stock so that I could see how I liked it.
  • beantownshootahbeantownshootah Member Posts: 13,137
    edited November -1
    The quick answer is that whichever you like better is the better choice.

    If you can't tell any difference, or don't really have a preference, then it doesn't really matter.

    One thing to make sure with any teeny 1911 type gun is that yours runs 100% with your chosen ammo type. Some of these small guns can have reliability issues.

    Other factors worth considering are cost of the gun, its weight, and your ability to conceal it.

    All else being equal a longer barrel usually gives you more velocity/energy (which doesn't hurt), a bit more practical accuracy from a longer sight radius (again good), and *possibly* more reliability (though not necessarily).

    On the downside, a longer barrel also gives you more weight and can *marginally* make the gun harder to conceal.
  • skychaser53skychaser53 Member Posts: 344 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by beantownshootah


    Other factors worth considering are cost of the gun, its weight, and your ability to conceal it.

    All else being equal a longer barrel usually gives you more velocity/energy (which doesn't hurt), a bit more practical accuracy from a longer sight radius (again good), and *possibly* more reliability (though not necessarily).

    On the downside, a longer barrel also gives you more weight and can *marginally* make the gun harder to conceal.

    I like to carry my Gold Cup CCW, it's just that the barrel has a tendency to poke it's nose out lol. I wear blue jeans and large T-shirt and I've been thinking of asking the wife to sew a little pocket(with wiggle room) between the hip pocket and the front pocket. That would keep the end of the barrel concealed and would blend in ..

    I do like the idea of a smaller lighter gun though.. I'll have to check out the Defender and Officers at the OGCA show this weekend. There's bound to be some there..
  • dfletcherdfletcher Member Posts: 8,074 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by skychaser53
    I've been looking at pics of Defenders and Officers the last couple days and was wondering which one would be better for CCW.
    There for awhile I thought the Officers was like the 5in 1911 and then I saw a pic with the slide pulled back and it had this funny looking tapered barrel. Is the Defender like that also ?


    I have a Defender and it uses a bull type barrel, no bushing. I have quite a few short barreled 1911s and that's pretty much standard. It requires a different takedown usually requiring a small part to hold the spring set up in place. I think Detonics had it it best with their captive spring set up. The Defender is light (24 oz) and reliable and compact. My only gripe is that I wish it had the Detonics length grip, shortens the gun's height by about 1". I don't know if the Officer model is all steel, but if so it will be heavier.

    I don't want to complicate the heck out of things, but there are alot of 3" barreled 1911s out there - Colt also has their Agent 1911 which is basically a Defender in blue with a trough type sight. Kimber and Springfield and Para all have alloy framed 3" 1911s. The EMP from Springfield is even smaller than the others, but it is a 9mm or 40 only offering.

    I really think it's just a matter of what you like, so long as reliability is present. Some models have night sights, some don't. Some have a pronounced beavertails, others use a short grip safety. On my Defender, I replaced the issue grip safety with a Wilson beavertail to get a higher grip (the Colt "duck butt" looks lousy and puts the hand low)changed out to XS fixed sights and a slightly larger thumb safety, checkered wood grips and an aluminium adjustable trigger replaced the rubber & plastic originals.

    There's also quite a price range on these guns - Colt is in the $850.00 price range, Kimbers & EMPs well over $1K, not sure on Para.

    Colt uses a trigger actuated (80 series type) firing pin block while others do not. May make a difference to you, the Colt was well enough done I hardly noticed any change on the trigger pull and of course it can be cleaned up. The trigger on the EMP is much, much better, but that may be because the EMP is about $500.00 more than the Colt.

    If it's a choice between Defender or Officers then I think it's just a mtter of weight. If you open it up to ther brands I'd say take some time, handle a few and see what you like.
  • SpartacusSpartacus Member Posts: 14,415
    edited November -1
    all good advice so far.
    I found that the commander is the largest I can carry comfortably concealed.
    I have both the defender and a double eagle officers. I like the defender better. (the double eagle is DA ender better) but they both carry well. picked up the defender NIB for $800 on the auction side (two months ago)
    springfield makes some nice smaller 45's for a little more $$, and as mentioned , the EMP is a great gun (I have the 9mm model) but pricey.
    for more $$ you have some nice Kimbers like the Eclipse
    If youre considering .40 cal as well I could build you one of these;[:)] (it's all match grade and cost $1500 for the parts)
    dscf0205.jpg
  • CS8161CS8161 Member Posts: 15,419 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Get yourself a Kimber Pro Carry, (commander size), aluminum frame, easy to carry, no frills, just a good, solid 1911 pistol.
    http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=129271025
  • shilowarshilowar Member Posts: 38,807 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Just buy a Glock...model 19 if you want 9mm...or 23 if you want .40...or 30SF if you want .45....


    They are safer to carry then a 1911, they are lighter...smaller and have higher mag capacities...


    HAHA the 1911 guys are freaking out right now :)


    1911s are great..for shooting...not so great CCW....I own them...shoot'em....but when its time to strap for protection I go to my Glock...for previously stated reasons



    think of it this way...its power to weight ratio....plus price and function....there is a reason Glock is the most popular, most widely purchased handgun worldwide....


    Oh and for the record I've owned a Kimber Pro Carry SLE...great gun...owned a Caspian Officers Model and currently own a Kimber Target II....I like 1911s..just not ideal for CCW
  • beantownshootahbeantownshootah Member Posts: 13,137
    edited November -1
    Personally, I'd rather not carry a 1911 *OR* a Glock.

    (I prefer a traditional double-action. I'm just not comfortable with the manual safety on the one, and the light trigger combined with lack of an external safety on the other).

    I take issue with the statement that the Glock pistol is more "safe" than a 1911. I'd say statistically, that Glocks are actually more prone to negligent discharge. The fact that you MUST dry fire the gun to disassemble it doesn't help with safety. The lack of external and grip safety on a Glock makes them somewhat akin to a cocked and UN-locked 1911.

    I'd also take issue with the conclusion that because Glocks are so popular, they have to be "better". Are McDonald's hamburgers the best in the world?

    Bluntly, a BIG part of the reason why Glocks are so popular is because they've been subject to the largest marketing campaign in the history of handguns. This has been made possible by the absolutely huge profit margins that Glock makes on the sale of these guns because the pistols themselves are so cheap to manufacture.

    But all that said, these are both tried-and-true proven designs, and I'd never tell someone NOT to carry either one, so long as they knew what they were doing and were comfortable with the gun in question. Both designs are highly popular for legitimate reasons, and either could "work" just fine with the right user.

    Like many things in life, there isn't a "right" or "wrong" answer, its a question of personal preference and what works for you.

    So too, the question about the Defender vs the Officers model. IMO, this comes down to personal preference. Its like someone asking "should I drive a Mustang or a Camaro"? In most respects that matter, the two guns are more similar than different.

    As mentioned, if you want to open the discussion up to OTHER super-compact 1911s, there are probably half-a-dozen manufacturers that offer these now: Colt, Para-Ordinance (which has a double-stack version), Springfield, Kimber. Even Smith and Wesson has gotten into the act with a Scandium 3" model:

    Smith_1911_PSc_01.jpg

    My "take" on this is that instead of carrying a $950 30-ounce .45ACP, I'd rather have TWO 15-ounce $450 airweight .38s! [;)][:D]

    If I had to have either the small 1911 or the smaller one, I'd pick the small one. My logic is that since I'm probably going to be carrying it in a belt-type holster anyway, another half-inch or 2 ounces isn't going to matter, so I might as well have the larger gun.

    But I could just as easily see someone coming to the exact opposite conclusion (ie all else being equal, might as well pick the smaller/lighter one).
  • skychaser53skychaser53 Member Posts: 344 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by beantownshootah

    As mentioned, if you want to open the discussion up to OTHER super-compact 1911s, there are probably half-a-dozen manufacturers that offer these now: Colt, Para-Ordinance (which has a double-stack version), Springfield, Kimber. Even Smith and Wesson has gotten into the act with a Scandium 3" model:

    Smith_1911_PSc_01.jpg

    Well, beantownshootah, theres a XD sub 9 on my belt as I type this lol.. I love it , easy to conceal shoots great( except you need a 20 ton press to move the rear sight). It makes great home gun when I put the light on the rail. My wife keeps asking me when she gets the XD since I bought it for her [:)] The Kimber ultra looks great, just not a Colt. The LDA PDA Para, I didnt like because I seen one jamming up several times at a shoot.
    Since I've been shooting Colts since I was 12, I wish Colt would make a small 1911 with the barrel bushing , with a rail, with the XD trigger set-up. Might as well wish to win the lottery. pffttt. Oh yeah, It takes muscle and a firm grip to work the slid on the sub XD. I think it's too hard for a lot of women. no offense intended.


    thanks everyone for the help. It's greatly appreciated !!!

    edit. yes, I might get a Smith model 38 revolver for the wife, it all depends on which one she shoots better. it or the XD.
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