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38 pistol cartridge interchangeability...

fastcarsgofastfastcarsgofast Member Posts: 7,179
edited March 2011 in Ask the Experts
I can't seem to get a straight answer even when I used the search function. I know 38 s&W is a no go in a 38 special gun, but what about 38 short colt and 38 long colt? And what exactly is a 38 colt special?

Comments

  • rufe-snowrufe-snow Member Posts: 18,649 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    38 Long Colt is the predecessor of the .38 Special, it will work fine in any revolver chambered for the .38 Special or .357 Magnum. The only modern 38 Long Colt ammo you will find though, is the cowboy loads sold to the SASS guys. The .38 Short Colt is totally obsolete, not likely you will be able to obtain any shooting quantities of this ammo.


    Never heard of any ammo called .38 Colt Special. There is/was stuff called .38 Colt New Police, which was their version of .38 Smith & Wesson. They didn't like putting S & W's name on their revolvers.
  • 11b6r11b6r Member Posts: 16,588 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Orgiginally, the cartridge was named the .38 S&W Special. It irked Colt to have to mark THEIR firearms with "38 S&W Special", so Colt came out with the .38 Colt Special. I have one round in my collection. Identical to the .38 S&W Special, except for the headstamp, and it had the trademark Colt flat tipped bullet. And Colt no longer had to put S&W's name on Colt revolvers.
  • fastcarsgofastfastcarsgofast Member Posts: 7,179
    edited November -1
  • beantownshootahbeantownshootah Member Posts: 12,776 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'll try to add something here.

    .38 long colt was used as the US military service round at the beginning of the 20th century in the Philippines insurrection. Field failures of this round were pronounced enough to lead to the eventual adoption of the .45ACP round.

    While popular mythology has it that the round didn't work because the Filipino Moros were hopped up on drugs or practiced some sort of "body binding", the fact is that the ballistics of this round are just intrinsically lousy, roughly comparable to modern .38 special wadcutter target rounds. So naturally stopping power was poor. The improved version of the .38 long colt was called the .38 Smith and Wesson "special", with "special" being the "magnum" of its day.

    Anyway, if you want to, you can fire .38 LC rounds through your .38 special/.357 revolver.

    .38 short colt is the predecessor to the .38 long colt, but in its original form its really a different sort of round. Unlike .38LC, which takes the same .357 bullet as .38 special, the original .38SC takes a "heeled" bullet that is actually .375" in diameter, with the bullet sides lying outside the cartridge, sort of like a .22LR.

    While you probably can squeeze a .375" bullet through a .357" bore safely (particularly a non-jacketed soft lead one), I don't see a good reason to do it.

    I don't think you're going to find anyone loading up TRUE heeled bullet .38 short colt rounds anymore. On the other hand, I believe Remington actually DOES still load up "modern" .38SC loads with using conventional 125 grain .357 caliber bullets in the shorter case:

    http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/short-colt-pistol-ammo-sale-online-discount-prices-ammunition-c-10480_14658_14743_14907_14868.html

    Starline makes brass, if you want it.

    http://www.dillonprecision.com/content/p/9/pid/25381/catid/5/Starline_Brass_38_Short_Colt
    39919_Starline_38_Short_Colt_m.jpg

    Accuracy probably won't be ideal because of the long gap the bullet has to travel before it hits the forcing cone. . .though you never know.

    Why bother with this?

    Apart from firing it in really old guns, one potential use of the .38 short colt rounds is that the shorter overall cartridge length lets you eject them positively and faster from medium frame .38/.357 guns that don't use full length ejector rods. For the same reason, they're also faster to slam into the cylinders. So these could be advantages in certain speed-type competitive events.

    Another use is that the really small case volume lets you load up weaker than normal power loads with better consistency than in longer cases. Its possible to load up super-slow 500fps .38 rounds in these cases if you like, giving you something with negligible noise and recoil.

    Note that under the right light conditions, you can potentially see 500fps rounds flying with the naked eye, which is pretty cool!

    Edit:
    Just to clarify, the .38 short colt was originally designed as a cartridge replacement for rimfire cartridges, themselves replacements for .36 caliber cap-and-ball revolvers, partly explaining the short cases and wide heeled bullets.

    This source has heeled .359 caliber bullets that are supposed to work for .38 short colt, and certainly those should be fine with a .357 bore gun: http://www.gadcustomcartridges.com/

    This source actually has the Remington .38SC in stock:

    http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/index.php/cName/pistol-ammo-38-short-colt

    I suppose you could always generate your own ".38LC"-like cases by trimming down .38 special or .357 cases, if you really wanted to.

    Lastly, as BLANKS these make sense, since they'll fit in basically any .38-type gun:
    http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=436301
  • wood_manwood_man Member Posts: 79 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    BTS...Once again you have given me a source to find something I would never have found on my own.
    Thanks for posting
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