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1897 Winchester Date & Value
rhmc24
Member Posts: 1,984 ✭✭✭✭✭
I'm offered this shotgun, s/n 286xxx with C above, traces of finish, good bore, good wood, 12 gauge full, 30". It is not the takedown model. Pump handle is straight cylinder shape with 18 grooves if I counted right. Asking price is $450. Info & comments will be appreciated.
Comments
Finish-wise, mine's in very good shape, but the barrel's been cut to 24" and threaded for Briley choke tubes, and a recoil pad was installed years back. I have no intentions of ever selling it and no interest in its value (which would be priceless, to me), but figured someone would assume I was asking. I'd just like to know the year it actually was made, because guns that old that still rock-and-roll really freak out the "latest and newest" fans [:D].
I'm offered this shotgun, s/n 286xxx with C above, traces of finish, good bore, good wood, 12 gauge full, 30". It is not the takedown model. Pump handle is straight cylinder shape with 18 grooves if I counted right. Asking price is $450. Info & comments will be appreciated.
That is a very late production "C" series Field grade solid frame gun. Other than one other gun (serial number 288725), it is the highest "C" series serial number I have heard of (or seen). I would really like to know what the complete serial number is. My sources tell me that it was manufactured circa mid 1905. It should have the round knob style pistol grip, and the 3-screw slide handle.
The "C" series was notorious for having problems with the slide handle cracking (due to the 3-screw design), and Winchester modified it by eliminating the screws. This modification resulted in the "D" series. "D" series guns show up circa serial number 249,000. The gun you mention was undoubtedly a parts clean-up gun.
The asking price is probably just about right on the mark.
WACA Historian & Life Member
As long as the subject's been brought up -- since one of the resident Winchester experts is going to come through as they always do [;)] -- I have a '97 takedown, serial number 743xxx under an "E". I've always been told it was made in 1924.
Finish-wise, mine's in very good shape, but the barrel's been cut to 24" and threaded for Briley choke tubes, and a recoil pad was installed years back. I have no intentions of ever selling it and no interest in its value (which would be priceless, to me), but figured someone would assume I was asking. I'd just like to know the year it actually was made, because guns that old that still rock-and-roll really freak out the "latest and newest" fans [:D].
Is your gun a Model "1897" or a "97"? I have serial number 743435 in my notes as a Model "1897", and serial number 747104 as a Model "97". Winchester dropped the "18" from the model designation in April of 1919, which apparently was very near to the serial number on your gun. So, regardless of how it is marked, my educated guess tells me your gun was manufactured circa 1919. Like the other fellow's gun, I am very interested in knowing exactly how your gun is marked, and what the complete serial number is.
WACA Historian & Life Member
quote:Originally posted by mongrel1776
As long as the subject's been brought up -- since one of the resident Winchester experts is going to come through as they always do [;)] -- I have a '97 takedown, serial number 743xxx under an "E". I've always been told it was made in 1924.
Finish-wise, mine's in very good shape, but the barrel's been cut to 24" and threaded for Briley choke tubes, and a recoil pad was installed years back. I have no intentions of ever selling it and no interest in its value (which would be priceless, to me), but figured someone would assume I was asking. I'd just like to know the year it actually was made, because guns that old that still rock-and-roll really freak out the "latest and newest" fans [:D].
Is your gun a Model "1897" or a "97"? I have serial number 743435 in my notes as a Model "1897", and serial number 747104 as a Model "97". Winchester dropped the "18" from the model designation in April of 1919, which apparently was very near to the serial number on your gun. So, regardless of how it is marked, my educated guess tells me your gun was manufactured circa 1919. Like the other fellow's gun, I am very interested in knowing exactly how your gun is marked, and what the complete serial number is.
Sorry, Bert, I had forgotten that on these early Winchesters it makes a big difference whether the "18--" is still attached to the model designation. Mine is marked "MODEL 97" on the slide arm and is serial number 743113 under an "E". All numbers are very clear so there is no doubt as to what they read. This gun, also, was originally a modified choke, which I presume meant a 28" barrel. My dad bought the gun in a Los Angeles gun store over thirty years ago and had the modifications done described in my previous post. He "loaned" it to me some years back and we have an agreement that I will never sell or trade it.
quote:Originally posted by Bert H.
quote:Originally posted by mongrel1776
As long as the subject's been brought up -- since one of the resident Winchester experts is going to come through as they always do [;)] -- I have a '97 takedown, serial number 743xxx under an "E". I've always been told it was made in 1924.
Finish-wise, mine's in very good shape, but the barrel's been cut to 24" and threaded for Briley choke tubes, and a recoil pad was installed years back. I have no intentions of ever selling it and no interest in its value (which would be priceless, to me), but figured someone would assume I was asking. I'd just like to know the year it actually was made, because guns that old that still rock-and-roll really freak out the "latest and newest" fans [:D].
Is your gun a Model "1897" or a "97"? I have serial number 743435 in my notes as a Model "1897", and serial number 747104 as a Model "97". Winchester dropped the "18" from the model designation in April of 1919, which apparently was very near to the serial number on your gun. So, regardless of how it is marked, my educated guess tells me your gun was manufactured circa 1919. Like the other fellow's gun, I am very interested in knowing exactly how your gun is marked, and what the complete serial number is.
Sorry, Bert, I had forgotten that on these early Winchesters it makes a big difference whether the "18--" is still attached to the model designation. Mine is marked "MODEL 97" on the slide arm and is serial number 743113 under an "E". All numbers are very clear so there is no doubt as to what they read. This gun, also, was originally a modified choke, which I presume meant a 28" barrel. My dad bought the gun in a Los Angeles gun store over thirty years ago and had the modifications done described in my previous post. He "loaned" it to me some years back and we have an agreement that I will never sell or trade it.
No need for an apology. You are correct in that it is important to know exactly how the older Winchesters are marked. Based on the serial number on your gun, my guess is that it was made between in the late April to early June timeframe of the year 1919. As I mentioned, serial number 743435 (which is just 300 serials after your gun) is marked "1897". The receiver on your gun was probably just a bit deeper in the bin, and did not get assembled into a complete gun until a month or two after serial 743435. The good news, is that your gun is the earliest serial number I have substantiated as being a Model "97".
For anyone else who is interested, I have been compiling a database of Model 1897/97 serial numbers and statistical information (the series designation letter, gauge, solid frame or Takedown, etc.) for a future article. My intent is to determine exactly when Winchester changed the Model series designation (e.g. from no letter, to the "C" series, "D" series, and "E" series).
WACA Historian & Life Member
Further to first post, here is the skinny on the subject shotgun, added info and revise a couple points. Re-read actual S/N is 236415 with C above. Model 1897 on push rod. Slide handle has 3 screws, 17 grooves, 18th would be where the screws are. Slide handle looks like replacement due not as red as usual old Win wood color of butt stock, probable re-finish long ago from look of varnish and small distress. Butt stock has round knob pistol grip with steel checkered buttcap. Brown patina except for about 25% blue on left frame and in very protected places. Action is tight (crisp rather than sloppy). I bought it. Thanks for your interest & comments.
The revised serial number places the DOM in the year 1904 (first half). The Cody Firearms Museum has the original factory ledgers for serial numbers 1 - 377,999, so it is possible to letter your gun and get the exact date. I have seen many 1897s with lighter colored slide handles... it is due to being used a lot. More wear occurs on the slide handle than on any other part of the stocks.
WACA Historian & Life Member
My 97 says 1897 on the slide rod, serial # 523382 under E, take down 30" as far as I know it was built in 1911. Hope it helps your research.
W.D.
Bert wrote:
Thanks[^]
Thanks Bert for the good info. I paid $400 for it. Probably will do a little rework on the pump handle color to better match the butt. May hack it off to 20" as a cowboy gun for my grandson. Thanks again. Robert
I don't recommend doing anything to it other than shooting and cleaning it. Cutting the barrel down would be an absolute shame[V], and it would cut the value of the gun by at least 50%. If you leave it as as, it will go up in value over time... cut it, and you will permanently destroy any collector value it has. If you want a short barreled Model 97, pick up a Norinco (clone).
WACA Historian & Life Member