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Military Marked Property
kimi
Member Posts: 44,719 ✭✭✭
A year or two back I bought rifle from a well known firearm dealer that had the receiver marked with an engraving tool as being property of the government. Then I got involved with reading some forum postings where folks were debating whether or not the engraving was done by someone other than government/military personnel. This caused me to ponder whether or not I had a legitimate military used firearm or not. So, I contacted the dealer, who just happened to have several pieces that were similarly marked, and he told me that if I was not satisfied with my purchase that I could exchange it for a piece that was equal to, or more than, what I had paid for it. This was fair to me, but after all was said and done, I decided to keep the piece because I liked it. Which brings me to my point: How many of you all have firearms, or have seen some that were marked crudely like the one pictured in the below link?:
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=88120693
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=88120693
What's next?
Comments
Nowadays something similar to the M 52 in the auction link you have posted is meaningless, as far as I'm concerned. Unless the serial number itself can be tracked to a U.S. Government purchase/contract. Anybody can get hold of a electric pencil to put any markings they want to on a firearm. The paper documentation can be easily duplicated/faked on a computer. My 2?.
I understand your logic perfectly well. Have you ever seen a legitimate piece, rufe-snow, that was marked in a similarly crude manner?
I don't doubt, that if small quantities of M 52's were purchased off the civilian market. The would be marked by a unit armorer in that manner. Be that as it may, I still wouldn't put big bucks into something like that, unless I could trace the serial number to a known/documented military contract/purchase.
You make another good point according to the "price" of a piece. This subject did play an important part in my decision to keep mine as I am confident that I can sell it for what I had paid for it, or more, perhaps. And, I do remember that our supply personnel were famous with their electric pencils too. Also, where the subject of price plays an important role, one might ask themselves before they contemplate making such a purchase, why would someone deliberately mark an item, especially a "collectible type item" and then not try to get a premium, or only a small premium, when such a tactic is sure to draw a great deal of caution?
To call such a gun, or the markings, "military" is stretching the meaning of the word. Guns like this were never "issued to the troops". It has been common for the last 50 years for the recreation staff at military bases to buy sporting rifles & shotguns for loan to military personnel & their families for hunting & target shooting. The electric pencil marking, & lack of ordinance acceptance marking, shows that these guns were bought off-the-shelf from local dealers. When they were worn out &/or no longer needed, they were disposed of.
Neal
Question remains: Were the items for loan from special services property of the US Gov't? And if so, were they marked US property? Dunno. Best, Joe
I do believe though that these rifles were received from a military base stateside though, much like the base at Crane, Ind(?) was, or is, the military center for many of these pieces today.
As for procurement, though, I do believe that many, maybe most, of these kind of weapons were procured by the appropriate military officers for distribution within their respective branches - much like the Winchester Model 70s that the Marines used, to include, their old Winchester and Lyman scopes that came with Mann-Neidner modified scope mounts and blocks.
I can remember special services (part of the Navy Exchange?) had loaner rifles for use during hunting season, or whatever. The '94 Winchester that I rented [Portsmouth Naval Base, Kittery, Maine], had a marking on it indicating it was from special services. Don't remember the marking, though.
Question remains: Were the items for loan from special services property of the US Gov't? And if so, were they marked US property? Dunno. Best, Joe
I hear you Joe. Like Neal noted, these type small arms (the .22s)rifle team, and/or training rifles were not issued to the troops. I remember making a few trips to special services to check out shotguns for hunting, too.