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NON FFL Transfer Problems

tateb24tateb24 Member Posts: 2 ✭✭
edited June 2009 in Ask the Experts
Greetings,
I had a small problem arise when I purchased a ps90 from a gentleman in Washington state. I live down here in Texas. I won the auction and paid for the item. I had the firearm shipped to a local pawn shop who does transfers. The person that shipped it did not have an FFL, now the shop is holding my firearm saying they cannot transfer the gun without an FFL. After several calls, they said they could let it go if the person faxed his driver's license. I realize that the ultimate decision is up to the owner of the shop. But if they decide that this is not enough, what action can I take to get my firearm.
Can I get the firearm transfered to another FFL? I am afraid because it is a pawn shop they are gonna try to buy it from me at a very low price and then try to resell it to me. If my firearm is in limbo, what is the next action I can take. Do I need to contact the ATF?

Any advice would be appreciated.
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    duckhunterduckhunter Member Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Do not contact BATFE THUGS. One of reasons to find out the details from your transfer dealer before you bid. The seller can help if he would by sending a ffl fron this dealer to the pawn shop and have the gun returned to the seller. He then can have a ffl ship the gun to your dealer. Costs a lot to do this but beats loosing the gun. Next time you will know. Welcome to the forum.
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    NwcidNwcid Member Posts: 10,674 ✭
    edited November -1
    It is 100% legal for an FFL to receive a gun from a non FFL holder or there would never be any used guns in gun shops. There are some shops that dont want to receive guns from non FFL holders and that is the FFL's policy not law. All that is required of the dealer is to put in his bound book where a gun comes from. This is usually done with a drives license.

    You say "I am afraid because it is a pawn shop they are gonna try to buy it from me at a very low price and then try to resell it to me". So if the shop can not transfer the gun how can they buy it from you and resale it to you? It does not work that way. YOU own the gun, the FFL does not.

    If the dealer will not transfer YOUR property to you have him send it back to the seller (this is legal since it can still be his gun as it was not transfered to you). Then find a dealer that will take guns from a non FFL and transfer them to you and have the seller ship it there. Or you can have the seller ship it though an FFL on his end which will cost you more since that FFL is going to have a charge too.
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    rufe-snowrufe-snow Member Posts: 18,650 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    No offense, but you should have got this straightened out with the pawnbroker, before the transaction. He got you over the proverbial barrel, now. His business, he can make his own rules. The ATF or the local law aren't going to help you, IMHO. Get the seller to send a Fax or photo copy of his D.L. to the Pawn Shop. If the owner still gives you a hard time offer him $100. He knows that the PS 90 is a expensive gun, figures that you have enough money to spring for one of them, he can squeeze you for something extra on the deal.
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    festusfestus Member Posts: 1,009 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I bought a gun a couple years back and had it sent to a local pawn shop. Everything was explained and I thought it was good to go. When the gun arrived he acted like he was lost. Finally he said he would act as if I had pawned it and was going to pick it back up. I said fine, signed paper and left with gun. No more dealing with him.
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    partisanpartisan Member Posts: 6,414
    edited November -1
    I believe the root problem here is; pawnshop!!! That's business as usual for most of them.
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    tsr1965tsr1965 Member Posts: 8,682 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    There are a few states that require any firearm to be shipped to an FFL, from an FFL. Texas is not one of them, if I do remember correctly. The pawnshop has said they could do the transfer with a copy of the seller's drivers license. That is reasonable, as they have to put in their log book where it came from, and do need to have a legit name and address and proof there of. They are just following federal guidelines. Although, it does sound like they are trying to make a quick extra buck. I had an FFL tell me that he had to charge sales tax on an out of state individual to individual transfer...being a previous sales tax vendor, and FFL I knew the FFL was trying to get 8% of $2k on top of his fee to line his pocket with. Be wary of schemes like this.

    Just use this as a learning experience, and next time, find out what is required from your recieving transfer FFL. I always ask the seller if it is an individual to include a nice copy of his/her drivers license.

    Best
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    MBKMBK Member Posts: 2,919 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Seems that if the seller faxes his license, then you are good to go.

    If he will not do that, then you should start this thread.
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    sandwarriorsandwarrior Member Posts: 5,453 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It sounds like the pawnshop is out to make a quick buck. Not like pawnshops are crooks or anything...like always.

    Normal procedure for having a firearm shipped to your FFL is to include a copy of your drivers license. That is a Federal guideline. since they said they would do the transfer if the seller includes a copy of his drivers license I would hold them to that and say no more. I hope you learn your lesson about dealing with pawnshops.

    As noted above some states require FFL to FFL transfers. Texas is NOT one of them, fortunately.
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    He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 50,953 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    For the next time, take a look here and see if you can find an FFL you can do business with: http://www.gunbroker.com/User/DealerNetwork.asp

    It is worth doing a little shopping around and talking to dealers, there is a lot of variation in price. I pay $15 and always buy the guy lunch, but there are shops in town that want $50 for a trnasfer. As rufe says, their shop, their rules, but you don't have to play with them again. Good Luck!
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    bustinstainlessbustinstainless Member Posts: 451 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    so, have him send a copy of drivers license
    or is there a reason he wont
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    dfletcherdfletcher Member Posts: 8,162 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by bustinstainless
    so, have him send a copy of drivers license
    or is there a reason he wont



    Some folks do the "I'm not sending my DL to some schmo I don't know - next thing I know my identity will be stolen" and that may be a legit concern.

    Again, this is a situation where not clearly communicating to the seller and the receiving FFL puts the buyer in a bad position.

    As mentioned there is no law preventing an FFL from receiving from a nonFFL, but it's their license & their rule - the pawn shop (FFL) could just send the gun back to the seller.

    In addition to clear communication, I find it's best to use an FFL where you are well known, a regular customer. If the FFL knows you & you routinely spend big $$$ with them they'll be helpful.
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    grumpygygrumpygy Member Posts: 53,466 ✭
    edited November -1
    Sorry your pawn shop is not the best. But thats what I use. Good guys.

    But if they recieve from a Non FFL they like a DL, just for their records.
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    Don McManusDon McManus Member Posts: 23,486 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by tsr1965
    I had an FFL tell me that he had to charge sales tax on an out of state individual to individual transfer...being a previous sales tax vendor, and FFL I knew the FFL was trying to get 8% of $2k on top of his fee to line his pocket with. Be wary of schemes like this.

    Not necessarily a scam or scheme. Some states do require the collection of sales tax for out of state purchases.
    Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.

    Brad Steele
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    givettegivette Member Posts: 10,886 ✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
    quote:Originally posted by tsr1965
    I had an FFL tell me that he had to charge sales tax on an out of state individual to individual transfer...being a previous sales tax vendor, and FFL I knew the FFL was trying to get 8% of $2k on top of his fee to line his pocket with. Be wary of schemes like this.

    Not necessarily a scam or scheme. Some states do require the collection of sales tax for out of state purchases.

    I can't argue [item in blue]. But if tax were to be paid, it would be included in the money order you mailed to the seller. I had an FFL try and pull the tax scam, but the receipt in the box showed that tax was included in the sale price.

    Most that can be done locally is for FFL to tax the transfer fee (if FFL is a Royal Dick.)

    Back to the question: Yes. Get your FFL's fax number, and have the seller fax a copy of his drivers' license to your FFL and to yourself simultaneously. Best, Joe
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    EOD GuyEOD Guy Member Posts: 931 ✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by dfletcher
    quote:Originally posted by bustinstainless
    so, have him send a copy of drivers license
    or is there a reason he wont



    Some folks do the "I'm not sending my DL to some schmo I don't know - next thing I know my identity will be stolen" and that may be a legit concern.

    Again, this is a situation where not clearly communicating to the seller and the receiving FFL puts the buyer in a bad position.

    As mentioned there is no law preventing an FFL from receiving from a nonFFL, but it's their license & their rule - the pawn shop (FFL) could just send the gun back to the seller.

    In addition to clear communication, I find it's best to use an FFL where you are well known, a regular customer. If the FFL knows you & you routinely spend big $$$ with them they'll be helpful.


    The problem is that the pawnshop cannot send the firearm back to an unlicensed person. In order to release a firearm to an unlicensed person a 4473 need to be filled out and a background check done. The only exception is if the firearm was sent for repair or modification. In that case, it could be returned directly to the sender.
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