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free standing gun vault

celsecelse Member Posts: 344 ✭✭✭
edited June 2011 in Ask the Experts
I am considering constructing a walk in gun safe. Tentatively it will be attached to an existing garage and its size will be 10' by 12'. It will be constructed of concrete 12" thick with a double mats on 12" centers and a vault door.
One of my concerns is climate control. A 12" concrete roof and sides are more than enough to stop the weather. I have looked on the Internet for a system, but it has fallen short. To some degree a thick concrete building will maintain a some what of a constant temperature and a de-humidifier inside will do a lot. But come July it will get hot and January very cold.
Do I construct a structure around the safe and cool and heat it? don't be afraid to jump in. Tell me what you really think!!!!

Comments

  • beantownshootahbeantownshootah Member Posts: 12,776 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    In general, guns do fine in "ordinary" hot or cold temperatures.

    With respect to temperature, the main thing is just to try to rapid or frequent extreme changes in temperature since those can promote water condensation, and expansion/contraction of (non-metal) parts which can cause problems.

    For a partially protected indoor vault like you describe, I'd say the single most important thing is to control humidity.

    Note that if the guns are mostly in long-term storage, you can seal them into airtight gun bags with desiccant to keep them good indefinitely.
  • babunbabun Member Posts: 11,054 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    A long time ago I built a similar size vault. But I used 12" concrete blocks with rebar in every open cell then grouted them full. Poured a 8" slab on top as a roof. I worry that your poured 12" walls will crack. Are you proficient with concrete?
    Your idea of the huge thermal mass will help maintain temps is correct. On mine I set 3 courses of block below grade to get 36" deep {frost line was 24"}. This also helps in maintaining a more uniform temperature. If you just keep the sun off the unit I think you will be just fine.
  • 11b6r11b6r Member Posts: 16,588 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Use a vapor barrier between the ground and your floor, or you will be surprised at how much moisture CAN come thru concrete.
  • yoshmysteryoshmyster Member Posts: 20,982 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    You'd be better off building that under ground and put a tin shed on top. I mean you're going on about a 12" concrete roof. Hell might as well use that as a foundation for a shed so you can keep your lawn gear.

    Underground the ground will keep the space about 60 degrees 90% of the year with maybe 10% rise/fall in temp.
  • gary wraygary wray Member Posts: 4,663
    edited November -1
    celse.........you don't say where you live. I have found that humidity is the big problem so if you have that under control you should be fine. So I would have several dehumidifiers to control the humidity level inside the room. Good luck[:)]
  • Wolf.Wolf. Member Posts: 2,223 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I concur with 11b6r's point regading a vapor barrier. Typically, a vapor barrier can be a good thick plastic sheeting made for the purpose or plain thin visqueen, but can also be a thick pool liner material, which is similar to tire inner tube rubber. Your application is small enough to make the pool liner material a consideration. Pool liner can be seamed together to make it watertight. As stated you will be extremely disappointed if you do not use a vapor barrier because the dampness and mildew will be very noticeable.

    But, another consderation is to properly prepare the ground you pour the slab onto, because if the slab cracks, the integrity of the structure is compromised. For example, clay is very expansive and will shrink and expand with the seasons, causing the floor to crack. Digging out the native soil to a good depth, maybe 12-18 inches or more, depending on your location, and replacing it with a non-expamsive media such as washed sand, then flooding it and letting the water seep into the ground, then compacting to 95% plus, then laying the vapor barrier over that, followed by about an inch of loose sand (to protect the vapor barrier) prior to pouring the concrete should provide a solid foundation. I suggest you also form the slab so that it sits above grade as well.
  • Alan RushingAlan Rushing Member Posts: 9,002 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hello! Seems that folks are covering major points with you!

    IF - you are anywhere that it ever floods, or has too much "moisture" at one time ever ... prepare accordingly.

    Unless you are really committed to build below grade. A very good and big advantage can be to place the packed gravel above grade. If done knowledgeably you don't dig down, and generally there is less moisture wicking up from underneith (still use good vapor barriers.

    For an application of mine, I used a double alternating layer of Dow BlueBoard around the entire exterior and waaaay under any frostline past the lifetime of the structure. ( If you are in a winter freeze area, I have some pointers / suggestions to provide above and beyoud this as well. )

    ( The H*** with 100 years ... figure 250 or more ... any place with flooding or freezing concerns ever! )

    Don't know that one needs 12" of steel-reinforced walls, etc., but guess that it is difficult if not impossible, to have walls that are ever too thick! We all know too, that concrete is much more economical than store bought steel gun safes!

    Do you have personal experience or reliable experienced direction from relatives or friends with putting up massive concrete walls???

    If you do not - you may want to consider the construction block method discusse above by another member - just something to consider, that is all.

    I have used rebar and concrete rather than grout for filling all voids within the blocks.

    If you go with the poured walls, I'd suggest that you ought, might consider pouring a foundation first keeping your steel rebar well in-place, etc. After it is well cured ... the time it will no doubt take to construct the double wall forms ...

    I can tell you some true life horror stories ... be careful and be sure, it is the best policy, to over-build the wall forms, rather than ever under-build them! One story is of a contractor and his problems X once! There are many near disasters I'd be happy to share if wanted . . .

    IF - you are going below grade, inform me and I have a few tried, trued and proven methods that will save you $$$, time, energy and usefullness of the structure, into the future.

    Properly installed French Drain ought go a long way to reducing moisture coming up thruough the floor and even the walls of the structure.

    Keep us informed of which way you go and how it all progresses! Good luck with a mighty fine project!

    Best, Alan
  • HawkshawHawkshaw Member Posts: 1,016 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    celse----If you are going this lenght, and expense, my only comment would be to consider the size. It won't be much more expensive to enlarge now, rather than later. Draw up scale drawings to show where every thing fits inside. I think 12" is a little excessive unless you are in a location where thieves have plenty on time to break in. Eight inches of 7 sack mix (standard is usually 5), with bar should be a little cheaper. Also, I would spend some of my money to keep the moisture away from the sight as opposed to keep it out. I would consider putting a sloped roof over the concrete ceiling, with gutters, and down spouts leading away from the sight. HAWKSHAW
  • RobinRobin Member Posts: 1,228 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Concrete is a fickle material and under most structural conditions there is some degree of cracking. I don't know what can be accomplished by using 12" of concrete rather than 8" especially for a roof. Regardles of whether your structure is above grade or below grade, I suggest you use a sealer for the entire exterior suitable for below grade environment as added protection from moisture. Assume you can run the necessary plumbing you could install a small dehumidifier. I like your idea.
  • wpagewpage Member Posts: 10,204 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
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