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SIGMA SERIES S&W

RosieRosie Member Posts: 14,525 ✭✭✭
edited June 2011 in Ask the Experts
Am I correct in thinking that series didn't go over very well? If so, why? It seem like they sell for a pretty low price.

Comments

  • mark christianmark christian Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 24,456 ******
    edited November -1
    Back when I had my gun shop we received some of he very first models available. Here is my take:

    People who knew nothing at all about S&W but had been looking at Glocks bought the SIGMA and never looked back while guys (and gals) who had previous experience with S&W automatics did not care for the SIGMA at all. S&W was banking on capturing a large portion of buyers away from Glock through their brand loyalty, but it did not seem to have worked out that way and S&W guys were turned off by the SIGMA.

    There is nothing wrong with the SIGMA, with the exception of the poor triggers. The first examples had triggers that we about as bad as any that I had ever experinced, and there are not many guns on this planet that I have not fired. The later triggers were better but still not as good as they should have been.
  • allechalleyallechalley Member Posts: 888 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I defer to Mark, as he has whole lots more experience and as I remember it, it's pretty much as he stated. The triggers on the first one's were godawful. It seems it was so alike to a Glock that Glock sued for infringement, but that might just have been talk. Glock has a different trigger feel, the Sigma was just plain strange and bad.
  • ATFATF Member Posts: 11,683 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I own three Sigmas and when you learn to shoot one (trigger I'm talking about)you will be a better shot with every gun you own.
  • tsr1965tsr1965 Member Posts: 8,682 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    As Mark has said, the S&W affictionado's were looking for more from S&W. More, other than their brand of a Glock. There are still some of us that favor the traditional DA/SA of the later 3rd Generation auto's from S&W. It was so much Glock copied, that Glock won a patent infringement law suit. On top of that, they also had stiff competition from a world reknown maker H&K, who also lost in court against Glock. Then the last straw, was the after market folks, pretty much ignored the ergonomics of the SIGMA, and there were not much for offerings for aftermarket goodies. At least not as much as for the Glocks.

    This is not saying that the SIGMA is not a good pistol, as it is, other than the trigger. It is every bit as much reliable as the Glock, and once the trigger is mastered, can provide servicable accuracy. However, S&W's current line of M&P's are barn burner's. They offer a lot of things that the SIGMA did not, but still, as of yet, have not offered a DA/SA.

    Best
  • leadlead Member Posts: 2,311 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I've had 2 Sigmas and learned to love them, after getting used to the triggers. They are as reliable and accurate as any Glock I've shot.
    The aftermarket issue is an item I've never understood though, especially from S&W. You can buy extra Glock mags at pretty reasonable prices, including factory mags. S&W wants way too much for extra mags and aftermarkets just aren't out there.
    BTW, I had one of the original "F" series guns. While the trigger was tough to get used to, I liked the longer barrel on it. It was an accurate weapon.
  • beantownshootahbeantownshootah Member Posts: 12,776 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Rosie
    Am I correct in thinking that series didn't go over very well? If so, why? It seem like they sell for a pretty low price.

    Cart. . . horse. They're inexpensive partly because they've never been popular.

    The gun is basically a Glock clone. Its not identical to a Glock (ie parts won't swap between them), but its similar enough that Glock sued Smith for patent infringement when these came out and WON.

    I'd say the biggest reason these have never been popular is that the stock trigger pull is just absolutely lousy. We're talking heavy (8+lb) and gritty. I've shot guns with worse triggers, but never a modern production auto from a "name" maker like Smith and Wesson!

    Note that the heavy trigger pull was a DELIBERATE design choice by Smith to make these guns with no external safety, safer to carry. Lots of police agencies mandate similar-in-concept "NY-type" extra heavy weight triggers in their issue Glocks for the same reason.

    There were also some issues in reliability with earlier versions, since corrected by Smith.

    Other than those two issues, I don't think there is anything wrong with these guns.

    Some of the grittiness of the trigger pull will improve with oridnary use, or simple repeat dry-firing. Also, the trigger pull can be considerably improved by someone who knows what they are doing (IIRC, you can swap out one of the springs for an aftermarket Glock one, and that helps a lot, plus of course, the usual polishing of trigger group contact surfaces). The design isn't conducive to a crisp "match" trigger, but apparently you can get it down to a pretty good 4-5 lb pull without all that much work. (Whether or not you "should" being a different question!).

    Bottom line is, that its a "good enough" design, but one that came out of the box with a few flaws that ran into Glock's marketing juggernaut.

    There are better guns out there, but I'd definitely rather have one of these with a name brand and good materials than one of the third-tier "junk" guns made with zinc-alloy parts that are in a similar, or slightly cheaper price range.
  • GrasshopperGrasshopper Member Posts: 16,704 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have had good experiences with them. To the point I have one 380 at my bedside table for personal use and my wife can handle it also...I have put every kind of ammo through it without one failure!
  • Riomouse911Riomouse911 Member Posts: 3,492 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    S&W got zapped with the infringement issue from Glock, there were alleged long-term service issues from agencies who bought them (This from a S&W rep I met), as well as the crummy trigger that sent the Sigma to the marketing scrap heap. They're now called the PD (Personal Defense) line and are marketed towards the civilian market instead of the law enforcement/security/military end. (The M&P obviously is geared towards that) In the Sigmas' "new" role as the PD, there should be no issues with them. They hold a lot of rounds, are priced very low for a good firearm, and once you get used to them shoot pretty well.
  • Riomouse911Riomouse911 Member Posts: 3,492 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Oops, Self Defense (SD) is the new name, not Personal Defense...
  • RosieRosie Member Posts: 14,525 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Never owned a PLASTIC gun and have been thinking about getting one just for the hell of it. Getting old and lazy and would like a light gun to tote around. This from a man who always said, "IF IT AIN'T STEEL IT AIN'T REAL!" [:D]
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