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Saiga AK Questions

JuggernautJuggernaut Member Posts: 719 ✭✭✭✭
edited May 2012 in Ask the Experts
The Russian Saiga AKM rifles, once converted to the AKM configuration are these actually AKM rifles consisting of the same internal and external parts and which could interchange with another AKM?

Do they have a 1.5mm thick stamped receiver and heavy profile barrel?

From all the info that I can find on them they appear to be a quality, durable and accurate AKM...
Thanks and regards.

Comments

  • v35v35 Member Posts: 12,710 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    They take different mags and the trigger is moved rearward with some extra links and the triggerguard is also moved closer to the pistol grip.
    There are kits and parts to alter the Saiga to exact AK configuration
    but then you throw a few hundred more into it.
    I have a 223, now apart, to have the bbl threaded. That's all the money that's going into it.
    The gas block is a little cocked but otherwise quality is very good.
    An interesting discovery was that 7.62x39 AK mags will fit but 223 AK mags wont.
  • JuggernautJuggernaut Member Posts: 719 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Could you take a measurement of the thickness of the receiver and see if its 1.5mm?

    From what I understand about the Saiga rifles is that they are both made in the same Russia Izmash Arsenal where the Russian military AKM's are manufactured and once converted are virtually the same without the full auto though of course...

    'exact AK configuration' is what I am looking for, so then I would presume that parts will interchange with an AKM then without any problems?

    From all of the info that I have found including from some major sellers, the Saiga converted to AKM is supposed to take all spec AK-47/AKM mags and drums...
  • carguyojcarguyoj Member Posts: 43 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    The parts from a traditional AK, will not fit a new Saiga import. These take a special Surefire Mag that costs about $40 each. Also, the rebuilds usually have pretty shody workmanship around the trigger because they have been moved.
    DSC035181287974132347.jpg

    The older Kalashnikov USA AKs (back when Kalashnikov USA was in Florida) were a completely different gun and MUCH better than the Saiga Sporters that are being sold today. I don't own one so I can't give you the receiver thickness, but just for not being able to use my original AK clips in them, I'll pass. I'd rather try and find a Maadi or Mak-90 for a decent price.
  • JuggernautJuggernaut Member Posts: 719 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I was wondering about this as well especially the extra holes from moving the trigger mechanism for example and then having to be plugged which looks different than a regular AKM. The prices that I have seen seem a bit much for a Saiga 'conversion AKM' as well. The Saiga AK conversions that I was considering were converted professionally and will allegedly take all in-spec AK mags and drums.
  • carguyojcarguyoj Member Posts: 43 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Juggernaut, if the Saiga is converted to accept regular AK mags, the magwell has been enlarged (trunnion milled out) to fit the larger mags. On this topic, be careful of the Yugoslavian M70 PAP AK-47s that originally were built to accept a single-stack mag. The importers mill them out to accept the high-cap mags therefore narrowing the trunnion. Like your concern for the 1.5mm receiver, this milling process weakens the chamber area. Also, the Russian VEPR AKs won't accept the standard AK mags.

    So sad that there's such a shortage of good quality AKs at a good price. Good luck in your search.
  • JuggernautJuggernaut Member Posts: 719 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Haven't heard any of that before... From my information the professionally manufactured Saiga AKM's come out of the same factory in Russia, the receivers are the same size, look identical to an AKM with no appearance of extra holes or that they were even converted and will accept both AK-47/AKM magazines and AK-47/AKM drums without a hitch, however Saiga is stamped on the side of the receiver.
    Hmm, almost would make a person wonder if they just took an AKM receiver stamped Saiga on the side and sent it over looking like an unconverted Saiga rifle fitted with the Saiga furniture, wouldn't put it past anyone for having to deal with the nonsense laws. I have never heard about any narrowing of the trunnion for widening of the magwell professionally though and sounds like a bubba garage franken special or something and definitely not a professional conversion like an Arsenal.
  • carguyojcarguyoj Member Posts: 43 ✭✭
    edited November -1
  • JuggernautJuggernaut Member Posts: 719 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Yeah I have seen that site too, its got some good info but alot of it has to be taken with a grain of salt as there is also some nonsensical ramblings and such and some misinformation as well.
  • v35v35 Member Posts: 12,710 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The 223 Saiga receiver measures .047-048 (1.2mm) in receiver wall thickness.I don't know about the 7.62 but I'll bet it wont accept std AK mags. Info is on the web with exact instructions on conversion to AK configuration. With that comes the requirement of replacing six or so parts with US made parts to be legal. Mississippi Auto Arms sells conversion parts, folding stocks and Magpull mags.
    There is a mag adaptor that will allow use of AR15 mags but requires some milling of the existing mag well.
    The thinking behind the Saiga was to work around AK and AK mag bans because they were supplied with odd ball sized 10 round mags. Since then extended mags became available.
    There is talk afoot of banning import of shotguns taking magazines. That will kill the Saiga shotgun.
  • DRP-AZDRP-AZ Member Posts: 2,318 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by carguyoj
    Check this out: http://www.ak47world.com/rifles.html


    A great site for the worst information and half-assed opinion regarding AKs on the Internet...bar none.

    Saigas, are extremely modified. Most are NOT single stackers. They do have different triggers and everything's been moved rearward. There are extra holes on the sides for swaged in pins which serve to provide fulcrum points for these aberrational triggers. Early ones (triggers) were milled, later ones are sheetmetal. The receivers are 1mm. The only really thick ones were VEPRs, which were built on RPK thickness recievers back when Alex Robinson of Robarms was importing them.

    The reason that converted to PG Saigas are expensive is that to reconfigure them properly a lot of welding has to be done, typically (if done right) with a copper plate clamped in place to minimize bleed through. Then those welds are polished out and the whole gun is refinished.

    I charge 475 including Tapco parts for a complete conversion of any of the rifles or shotguns. Extra for reconfiguring the mag release to take standard AK type magazines. A bullet guide must be welded in place, and a different trigger guard/mag release assy must be rivetted on.

    Barrel pulling and threading ranges from "cake" to "impossible" as per usual with the impeccable level of Quality Control that Russians are known for (that was a joke) and I've had the barrel pins press out easily or require kroil and heat...or front sight bases push right off with 3 tons of pressure or had barrels which would NOT come out no matter what...there's always more than one way to skin the proverbial cat and we end up winning eventually, even if we have to take the rifle to someone with a large 4-jaw lathe and turn the entire barreled action. Whatever it takes.

    But please, in Timofeyevich's name, stay away from ak47world.poop.
  • carguyojcarguyoj Member Posts: 43 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I admit that you have to take what they say with a grain of salt, but I agree with their assessment of the Saiga AKs. Why would anyone in their right mind want their "simple" AK to be THAT modified? I've had Maadis and Chinese Norincos that we beat to poop back in the day. I also have an SLR-95 that I bought new when they came out. We all hate where the prices are heading (and where they are now) but that doesn't justify buying garbage. I'd rather shop around for a Maadi or Norinco for a decent deal. My $0.02
  • JuggernautJuggernaut Member Posts: 719 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The Arsenal AKM's are super nice and appear to be on AKM receivers with AKM parts although they say Saiga on the side of the receiver however there are no extra holes or other tooling marks, apparently as close to an actual AKM as we are going to get.

    Only thing is that they seem to have a threaded muzzle that's 24mm and uses a AK74 muzzle brake, is there an adapter to change to the 14mm AK47 slant brake?
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