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45-70 BFR

greybeard100greybeard100 Member Posts: 24 ✭✭
edited September 2011 in Ask the Experts
I recently bought a BFR 45-70 and a tc conternder 45-70. Both are (of couse) pistols. Can any 45-70 ammo work in both or is rifle ammo different? (and marked accordingly)
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    greybeard100greybeard100 Member Posts: 24 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    remington nut and kingjoey made reference to this caliber recently. I am interested, what is this? Not another name for a 45-70 Gov't I hope.

    SEMPER FI
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    tsr1965tsr1965 Member Posts: 8,682 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    The 45-70Gov't round was originally designed for a rifle. If I am not mistaken, it was the 1873 Springfield Trapdoor.

    Thru 125 years or so, it has been adapted to about anything one can think of, including handguns. Most commonly produced loads are within the pressure limits of the feeble Trapdoor, which is about the weakest of the 45-70's that I know of...including, but not limited to the handguns you mentioned. Your brace of hand cannons should be able to handle anything you can find. That said, there are some real hot loads by uffalo Bore, and Garret, that you may wish you had not pulled the trigger on...even in a sturdy rifle.

    Best
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    rufe-snowrufe-snow Member Posts: 18,650 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    45-70 BFR is a revolver made by Magnum Research chambered for the standard 45-70 cartridge, as is the Contender made by TC.

    Years ago I went to a range where a guy had one of the TC 45-70 Contenders. It's recoil was so violent he fastened a brass weight under the barrel so it wouldn't recoil out of his hand. Because of this I would suggest using light reloads in both handguns until you got acclimated to the recoil.
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    greybeard100greybeard100 Member Posts: 24 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I already have and have shot the 50ae, the 454 casull raging bull and the S&W 500. Only the 500 is nasty and not too pleasant to shoot. I have been told the 45-70 isn't any worce than the 454.
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    charliemeyer007charliemeyer007 Member Posts: 6,579 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Having shot many 1000's of 45-70 hand cannon rounds I can asure you that you can load them up to be non-pleasant. Any regular factory will work just fine. For those extra hot loads I'd ask the makers of the guns for advise.
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    tsr1965tsr1965 Member Posts: 8,682 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by jim_lemay
    Commercial ammunition from the major ammunition manufacturers is rifle ammunition that is safe to shoot in a Trap Door Springfield (low pressure loads).

    There may be specialty ammunition manufacturers who load for something more modern than a Post Civil War/Indian Wars pre-1900 Trap Door Springfield. However, they are at risk for lawsuits when somebody uses them in the wrong application, so I would surprised if there are higher pressure loads that are not specially handloaded.

    The T/C barrel allows the shooter to handload something other than 405 gr 45-70 Govt. flat nose bullets. There are some good 300 gr and 350 gr JHP bullets. The T/C barrel is not chambered for use of the .458" 500 gr solids. I modified the chambere to accept the 500 gr solids and it kicked like a mule.


    Mr. Lemay,

    Take a look at these. These are not handloads, but regular loads from a notable commercial manufacturers.


    http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=35

    http://www.garrettcartridges.com/4570.html

    http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/index.php?cPath=21_44

    I do believe that statement in red, could use some adjusting. Any of these loads will disintegrate a Trapdoor...old or new replica.

    Best

    EDIT 1

    Yes, my first post was a bit faulty too, by saying that it will handle "anything you can find". Most likely the shooter will give up before the gun will. But one should check with the mfg of the fire arm first. Anything that can handle the thrust of the 454 Casull with heavy loads, can handle the 45-70's. The BFR, can handle the 500 S&W, so it can handle any 45-70 load you can fit in it. Not sure about the Contender, as they never chambered it for 454, or even anything with a common head diameter of the 308 family...they reserved and engineered the Encore for that.

    Those ammo manufacturer's I listed, are more mainstream than a lot of folks believe they are. Doubletap supplies some major LE groups too.

    Best
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    dfletcherdfletcher Member Posts: 8,162 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I can't speak to the BFR, I can regarding the T/C Contender.

    Most factory loads are loaded to Trapdoor levels. They're relatively mild and not the handful you might imagine in a Contender pistol.

    I find the 14" barrel much easier to control than the 12" braked and more accurate.

    I think reloading really helps the cartridge alot. There are 3 reload levels for the 45/70. The Trapdoor version is mildest, next up is the Marlin 1895/Win 1886 and finally the Ruger No 1/Siamese Mauser. I've contacted T/C long ago, they "recommend" keeping the Contender to Trapdoor levels. It's their gun and all, but the reloads I've read in Hodgden and other manuals includes many Marlin 1895 reloads. The strongest I've used is H4198 with a 300 JHP, Hodgden lists this specifically for the T/C showing 2,100 fps. I have no issue with recoil and regularly shoot 405 Win, 375 H & H and JDJ (unbraked) but the 45/70 at Marlin levels is a handful.

    In general the milder loads are pleasant and more fun to shoot. I tend to shoot a 300 grain hard cast at about 1,600 fps and a 405 grain hard cast at about 1,300 as "just about right". Using the rubber backed wood Pachmayer grip is a great help, I've adapted the grip for use with the G2 style Contender and that helps.
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    greybeard100greybeard100 Member Posts: 24 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    o.k. guys, I think I get it. I also reload. It's the only way to afford to shoot such loads as mentioned and 45 win mag too!
    Just a difference with the 45-70. I don't intend to shoot it enough to justify buying dies. I was just going to puchase a few commercial boxes for fun. My inquiry started because my reloading manuals have 2 different sections on reloading the 45-70. One is much higher and limited to the contender. Thus I wondered if commercial manufacturers have different levels that I should know about before buying.
    Thanks
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    Riomouse911Riomouse911 Member Posts: 3,492 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think you're going to have more fun with those guns than you think, and you'll be wanting to shoot it more that factory prices will allow. Grab a set of Lee dies, they're not that expensive and work well for the .45/70. I load mine low-level (trapdoor loads with lead bullets) with IMR 3031 for fun shooting in a Marlin 1895G, and I'll also rev it up (to published safe levels) on occasion with 300 and 405 JSP's. Stick to the trapdoor loads, and you'll be in hog heaven!

    Good luck and have fun!
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