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Argentine Model 1909 Cavalry Carbine

W.T.EwingW.T.Ewing Member Posts: 11 ✭✭
edited July 2008 in Ask the Experts
I recently aquired an as-issued 1909 Argentine mauser.In the deal was also a Cavalry carbine. The rifle is stunning with it's in the white receiver and deep blued parts with even a matching brass sight protector. However the carbine seems to be finished differently.My question is: Are the carbines finished exactly the same way as the rifles? The floorplate and triggerguard seem to be parkerized. The receiver is correct in the white but some of the metal that is richly blued on the rifle have the dull phosphate finish. I think that this piece was redone.Either arsenal re-finished or done privately.They are both Berlin guns.I paid $700 for both so the carbine is a throw in if it indeed was re-done.Thanks.

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    MaaloxMaalox Member Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Sounds like a nice package deal. I have an Argentine 1891 Rifle and have been looking for an 1891 carbine to match. I have no answers for you, but if you post up some pics I bet the Mauser experts can provide some answers to your questions.
    Regards, MAALOX
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    ammo guyammo guy Member Posts: 810 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I believe you are correct in that some of the metal parts have been refinished. I don't think that any parts would be parkerized. They should be deep blued.
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    jimthompson502002jimthompson502002 Member Posts: 96 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    It has surely been refinished, probably in Argentina.

    However, these rifles and carbines are not too heavily impacted
    by a refinish, and in fact, if there's reason to believe it was
    done by the Argentines, might have no impact AT ALL. The carbines
    are quite uncommon, bordering on rare, and if the numbers match,
    it's still a very valuable piece. Is the trigger guard the correct
    hinged and retained unit? If so, that is especially correct.
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    COLTCOLT Member Posts: 12,637 ******
    edited November -1
    ...Ive not seen the Calvary in a bright blue, always the dull finish.
    The Argie arsenal probably re-worked a lot of 91's and 09's...some were cut down and called Engineer or Calvary Carbines too. These Argies have a LOT of *MISSING info, as do a lot of older battle rifles.

    All recievers began their life in the white...but a lot were blued (or WTH they did for finish back then) when they were rearsenaled. Ive seen pics of the "blue" but all Ive seen in person were a parked looking dull finish, and is considered "correct"; also because most survivors were rearsenaled and are accepted as correct except only by the die hard purist.

    ...Walnut stocks and one of the smoothest actions for a battle rifle ever made. An intact Argie crest and all matching is a good thing too...as the Argies after getting caught supplying arms for a little bananna republic war passed a law that any military items having the Argie crest that were sold, were to have the crest scrubbed/de-faced prior to the item being sold...bayo's included.

    1891 Engineer...crest intact/matching numbers.
    181engineerargieswedehusky001.jpg

    ...around the front forend stock should be two grooves, these grooves are for the WIRE ([:D]) that was straight from the arsenal, to hold the forend on...wired on is correct, as they didn't have duct tape back then [8D]
    181engineerargieswedehusky005.jpg

    ...I have a 1909 Calvary with crest intact w/matching numbers and two of the Argie bayos w/crests, one wood handle one alloy or aluminum. The 1909 action in good condition is still used and sought after as a base for some REALLY nice custom rifles.

    Ive been intending on selling these (along w/a dozen or so other old battle rifles) for a couple of years, just never got around to it yet [:0][:D]

    ...a half azzed blurry pic of the Argie Crest on the 1909
    1909argie016.jpg
    1909argie001.jpg

    *...A good example of a rifle w/a ton of "missing info"
    is the 1903-1938 Turkish Mauser's AND the rifle's bayo...boy, 99% of the bayo's have been cut down and re-worked by Mohammed or his camel by the way most look. I have 4 that actually have the cleaning rods which is half unusual...most don't have the rods. The story for the missing rod (and sling) is that the Turks used the rod for a riding quirk, bent the rods all to hell.

    The missing slings are attributed to the Turks using those for camel or horse tack...both stories are plausable when considering the enviroment and the resourcefullness of these people. By the way, a sling that looks as if it came from the arsenal on the Turk, is an original M96 Swede leather sling...I have those on all 4 of my Turks and the slings were still very reasonable a year or so back. I have never seen nor read anywhere the definitive type of original sling Turks wore from the arsenal, Ive "heard" the sling was braided cloth; but as with a lot of "facts" about some older battle rifles, who knows.

    ani-texas-flag-2.gif
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    MaaloxMaalox Member Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by COLT
    ...

    1891 Engineer...crest intact/matching numbers.
    181engineerargieswedehusky001.jpg

    ...around the front forend stock should be two grooves, these grooves are for the WIRE ([:D]) that was straight from the arsenal, to hold the forend on...wired on is correct, as they didn't have duct tape back then [8D]
    181engineerargieswedehusky005.jpg

    Ive been intending on selling these (along w/a dozen or so other old battle rifles) for a couple of years, just never got around to it yet [:0][:D]



    Thanks for the informative post. I have been looking for an 1891 carbine to match my 1891 rifle. Nice to see there are some out there.

    Thanks
    Regards, MAALOX
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