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Define Collector

n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
edited July 2008 in Ask the Experts
I just read a reply which states a Pre 64 which has been drilled for scope mounts has lost all of its value. I do not think so. Maybe I am not a collector but I have a collection of pre 64s and being drilled is of little mind to me since I use all of my "collection".

Sage 1

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    givettegivette Member Posts: 10,886
    edited November -1
    Collector: the meaning can be argued till the cows come home.

    However, in collecting, the sub-category of "purist" exists. They will balk at what you (and I) consider minor alteration details. To the "purist", there's really no such thing as a minor alteration. No grey area. Either it's correct, or it's not. Joe
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    snickerssnickers Member Posts: 359 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If a Pre-64 rifle has extra holes drilled for a scope mount, a pad installed other than factory, refinished or altered after factory it still has value but should not be expected to draw the very inflated prices some of the "original" rifles will command.
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    He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 51,177 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thus altered it becomes a "shooter", sells in a lower price range and gets used. A high condition completely original usually becomes a safe queen. For almost all of the "collectable" rifle with high price tags like pre-64 model 70's, many of the Model 99's etc. there is a "shooter" categoy of rifles in poorer condition, or altered in some irreversable way. They sell for less, and get used, but because of their desirability they do sell and do get used.
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    tsr1965tsr1965 Member Posts: 8,682 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hello,

    I am presumably the one who made the post of the Pre-64 loosing its value. Joe is correct when he talks about purist collecting, and a working person collecting. I have both types of collections. It is sad, but in gun collecting, unlike some automobiles, or other things, add ons do not enhance value, of even some more modern arms. Some of the more collectable name brands like Winchester, or Colt drive some of us crazy. Especially when a higher end, limited available, in excellent condition specimen is encountered. We see our bank accounts drop like the DOW when oil goes up. However these high end, rare, excellent condition guns must be all there. One little hole, and/or a refinnish, and the value can drop by half instantly. That is what I was saying in that post with the Pre-64 model 70 in 300H&H. Some had holes in from the factory, but some early ones did not. Since the number of early ones that did not have them were small, and constantly diminishing, as they are getting altered by the unknowing, who just want a good shooting big game rifle, the collector(purist) interest is high. I hope this explains it.

    Best
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    Bert H.Bert H. Member Posts: 11,279 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Sage1
    I just read a reply which states a Pre 64 which has been drilled for scope mounts has lost all of its value. I do not think so. Maybe I am not a collector but I have a collection of pre 64s and being drilled is of little mind to me since I use all of my "collection".

    Sage 1


    More accurately, "it has lost nearly all of the collector value", and it is no longer of interest to the serious collector (purist).

    Collector value is defined as the additional premium paid for an unaltered factory original specimen.

    Though it may not make much sense to many of the average gun owners, there is a relatively large number of firearms collectors (purists) around the world who will pay substantial premiums for "collector" grade guns. The number of people who "collect" said firearms has risen dramatically in the past 15 - 20 years.
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    rhmc24rhmc24 Member Posts: 1,984 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    There is another dimension to gun collecting. Antique guns, I mean really antique back into the 16th to 18th centuries, are judged by somewhat different standards. Some pieces are so scarce that to have one in any condition is desirable and one in good "survivor" condition is a treasure. Un-issued, never used piece are almost non existant and as with C&R collectibles can command astro-prices.

    Restoration is usually condemned by some purists. I have done restorations on distressed pieces for which the client paid me many thousands of dollars. These are mostly heavy-duty serious collectors and world-class dealers. They all say they are thankful there are people who can bring back these historical artifacts from the 'brink of oblivion'.

    Restoration, in my definition, is to restore the piece to condition it might have had late in its use-life. To me, returning to like new is renovation, which I leave to others, if there are any involved in these earliest pieces.
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    glabrayglabray Member Posts: 679 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    As pristine examples of traditional collector arms become more and more scarce on the market, and their prices move out of reach to more and more collectors, interests are increasing in less-than-perfect examples and in gun types formerly not considered collectible. One current example is US military arms that are complete but show considerable evidence of use. There are several collectors in my circle who now actually prefer to obtain a military arm that shows evidence that it was actually used in battle than an example that sat unused in a warehouse for 100 years or more. Another example is the rapidly increasing interest in early pocket revolvers that used to be considered junk.
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