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M16/AR15 Question Part 2
bnocenti
Member Posts: 58 ✭✭
"The term "AR-15" is copyrighted by Colt Industries. No other manufacturer may legally call his version an "AR-15". Colt discontinued most AR-15 models > 20 years ago due to legal & social reasons.
Other manufacturers really make what we call "AR-type" or "AR-clone" rifles.
Since you want to invest > $20,000 in a rifle, I think that you are right in wanting a factory Colt, as opposed to a conversion by a machine shop. Can you tell us what form it is registered on?
Neal"
Hello Neal,
This weapon would need to be on a Form 4 I believe. Since it's not a registered dewat. If it were a registered dewat it would be on a Form 5
Other manufacturers really make what we call "AR-type" or "AR-clone" rifles.
Since you want to invest > $20,000 in a rifle, I think that you are right in wanting a factory Colt, as opposed to a conversion by a machine shop. Can you tell us what form it is registered on?
Neal"
Hello Neal,
This weapon would need to be on a Form 4 I believe. Since it's not a registered dewat. If it were a registered dewat it would be on a Form 5
Comments
That is wrong as some manufactures are shipping their AR,s with m16 carriers. I have a Bushmaster that is about 20yrs old tha came with one new, and a DPMS with one also [;)]
It's OK with ATF as long as that is the only part.
Once bought it will be on a 4.
CP
An M16 for us mortals will be on a Form 3 or 4.
Once bought it will be on a 4.
CP
You are correct CP I was answering the question as if I were the one doing the paperwork I should have been more specific. These can be obtained on a Form 3 as well.
Batf no longer considers having an M16 BCG in an AR to be an attempt to illegally convert an AR to full auto. However in the past, batf did apparently consider that having an M16 BCG could possibly be an attempt to make an AR full auto illegally.
Also here is a comparison for reference.....
In beantown,s answer, he said that you can't use a m16 BCG in a AR [xx(]
Where did THAT come from? I said no such thing. Here is my direct quote:
quote:http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=567114
beantownshootah Advanced Member
USA 11867 Posts
Posted - 07/26/2012 : 4:24:02 PM
Can you put an AR-15 upper on an M16 lower?
Yes. . .but.
I believe the M16 bolt carrier group is a little different and that difference may prevent your AR-15 upper from firing as "quickly" as you might like, if you catch my drift.
In other words, I said the bolt carrier group was different between the two, and if you just stick a random AR-15 upper on top of an M16 lower, you might not be able to fire full auto.
I never mentioned the possibility of putting an M16 full auto style BCG into a regular semi-auto AR-15 since that's not what the question was about!
Now to address THAT issue, yes I'm aware that historically some AR-15 *STYLE* guns have shipped out with the full-auto bolt carrier groups, but I don't think that's the norm; most (if not all) of them do NOT nowadays.
If your particular AR-15 has one, then yes, you could stick it on top of an M16 lower and be "good to go". If not, these full auto bolt carrier groups are readily available and not terribly expensive, so you can always buy one.
On legality, basically you're allowed to own these parts, and you're even allowed to stick them in AR-15 guns:
quote:Written by Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE), Chief of the Firearms Technology Branch
...M16 bolt carriers are not designed and intended solely and exclusively for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun and are not any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled. Further, an M16 bolt carrier is not a firearm as defined in the GCA or a machinegun as defined in the NFA. An M16 bolt carrier is simply a machinegun part and as such its domestic sale and possession is unregulated under the Federal firearms laws. It is not unlawful to utilize a M16 machinegun bolt carrier in a semiautomatic AR15 type rifle.
Owning one of these would be illegal *IF* its owned in conjunction with other parts necessary to construct an illegal machinegun (eg full auto style lower with autosear, even if unassembled, etc).
AR15 is actually Colt's designation for a type of rifle, not a model. Instead, individual numbers are assigned AR15 models with various features.
Despite what many think, 'AR15' doesn't necessarily indicate a rifle is semiauto only. You'll see this clearly demonstrated if you examine any US miltary variant of this rifle. They're all marked with the exact same AR15 logo as Colt's non-US military variants, with further markings (M16, M16A1 thru A4, M4, etc.) indicating which Colt model it actually is.
For example, the US Air Force first adopted the select fire version of Colt's semiauto AR15 Model R6000, the Model 602, and it received the US military designation of M16. The US Army later adopted Colt's select fire AR15 Model 603 and it was designated M16A1. Today's issue carbine model, the M4, is a Colt AR15 Model R0921.
If you're looking for a non-NFA 'M16', Colt's current Model 6920 is nothing more than a semiauto US military M4 that's fitted with a 16 in. barrel instead of a 14.5 in. tube.
EDIT:
quote:Originally posted by Juggernaut
Not according to the military or DARPA, it is the M16 or M4 with several other variants and not an AR15, perhaps in the airforce or navy or something I wouldn't know.You may not recall, but no matter what branch of the US military you were in your M16 variant had Colt's AR15 logo on the left side of the magazine well. The DoD assigned designation for whatever AR15 model it was would be stamped down below this in block lettering.
If you ever carried a US military M16 variant it was in fact a Colt AR15 with a DoD assigned M-prefix number which translated to it's specific model.
Regards
Best
Neal
The truth is that AR15 and M16 are the same rifle, with the M-prefix only indicating a US military designation for various models.
AR15 is actually Colt's designation for a type of rifle, not a model. Instead, individual numbers are assigned AR15 models with various features.
Despite what many think, 'AR15' doesn't necessarily indicate a rifle is semiauto only. You'll see this clearly demonstrated if you examine any US miltary variant of this rifle. They're all marked with the exact same AR15 logo as Colt's non-US military variants, with further markings (M16, M16A1 thru A4, M4, etc.) indicating which Colt model it actually is.
For example, the US Air Force first adopted the select fire version of Colt's semiauto AR15 Model R6000, the Model 602, and it received the US military designation of M16. The US Army later adopted Colt's select fire AR15 Model 603 and it was designated M16A1. Today's issue carbine model, the M4, is a Colt AR15 Model R0921.
If you're looking for a non-NFA 'M16', Colt's current Model 6920 is nothing more than a semiauto US military M4 that's fitted with a 16 in. barrel instead of a 14.5 in. tube.
EDIT:
quote:Originally posted by Juggernaut
Not according to the military or DARPA, it is the M16 or M4 with several other variants and not an AR15, perhaps in the airforce or navy or something I wouldn't know.
You may not recall, but no matter what branch of the US military you were in your M16 variant had Colt's AR15 logo on the left side of the magazine well. The DoD assigned designation for whatever AR15 model it was would be stamped down below this in block lettering.
If you ever carried a US military M16 variant it was in fact a Colt AR15 with a DoD assigned M-prefix number which translated to it's specific model.
No, that is incorrect and I recall just fine thanks and apparently the military branch actually does matter in relation to combat branches such as the Army and Marines. Maybe not so for the airforce and navy who may get civilian type ar15's or something like I said I wouldn't know about them.
I have worked for DARPA and there were no Colt or FN 'AR15' marked military rifles issued in the Army or Marine units that I was in, only 'M16' and 'M4' designated rifles by Colt and FN.
Regards