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NYS AR-15 Legal Question

Myloadedmemory11Myloadedmemory11 Member Posts: 15 ✭✭
edited August 2012 in Ask the Experts
I am interested in purchase something like this http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=298345228

I live in upstate New York specially Schenectady. As far as I can tell it is legal to own. Anything that is not legal or I should be worried about? I am also wondering about the magazine limit. The best I can find New York State has a 10 round magazine limit? I am looking to get this for target practice and home defense. I was in the Army and I am most comfortable with an M-16. Also I am just reading on the Federal Ban and it expired however the NYS one is still in effect?

Any guidance on the laws is appreciated and I am open to any advice.

Thanks

Comments

  • andrewsw16andrewsw16 Member Posts: 10,729 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Welcome to the forum. With the way state laws change so frequently, I would suggest you discuss your rifle needs with a local Schenectady FFL dealer (or two or three). The reason I mention more than one is that not all dealers are 100% up to speed on all the latest laws. But, by discussing it with more than one, you should be able to get an accurate picture of what is legal. Then you can work out a deal for the dealer you bond with best to receive your Gunbroker purchase for you. [:)] Good luck.
  • tsr1965tsr1965 Member Posts: 8,682 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    That rifle, would not be legal in NY, unless the flash hider is pinned on, with a blind pin, and the same with the stock, has to be blind pinned open. The seller cannot ship any high capacity magazines, unless they are pre-ban magazines.

    From what I see, the rifle, is a "pieces and parts rifle", thrown together, by only god knows who. The last I knew, Spikes, only made upper and lower reciever's, not complete rifles. Hence the low price, as most likely, there are not any buyer's, who have seen it face to face.

    I do believe, that you could do better, if you are looking for a NYS compliant rifle, to buy a new one as such, or get a pre-ban(yes, you will pay more), and dress it any way you want to. That is what exactly I have done, with the preban's.


    You can still ge pre-ban magazines that are high capacity, and they are legal in NYS.

    Best

    EDIT 1

    quote:IIRC the flash hider is not legal even if pinned on... pinned brakes are ok...

    Like I said...my preferred method is to buy a preban...or at least a preban lower, then dress it any way I want to. The early Eagle Arms pre-ban's are one of my all time fav.'s.

    Best
  • vicg1vicg1 Member Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by tsr1965
    That rifle, would not be legal in NY, unless the flash hider is pinned on, with a blind pin, and the same with the stock, has to be blind pinned open. The seller cannot ship any high capacity magazines, unless they are pre-ban magazines.

    From what I see, the rifle, is a "pieces and parts rifle", thrown together, by only god knows who. The last I knew, Spikes, only made upper and lower reciever's, not complete rifles. Hence the low price, as most likely, there are not any buyer's, who have seen it face to face.

    I do believe, that you could do better, if you are looking for a NYS compliant rifle, to buy a new one as such, or get a pre-ban(yes, you will pay more), and dress it any way you want to. That is what exactly I have done, with the preban's.


    You can still ge pre-ban magazines that are high capacity, and they are legal in NYS.

    Best


    IIRC the flash hider is not legal even if pinned on... pinned brakes are ok...
  • Myloadedmemory11Myloadedmemory11 Member Posts: 15 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Spikes Tactical does sell fully assembled guns on their web page. Pirce they advertise is $1200+ I imagine MSRP with no add-ons.

    I asked the seller if it was NY state legal since he was in New York state the response I received was - The stock has to be pinned, the muzzle break pinned and welded.

    I am guess that is the muzzle is welded to the upper receiver. What is the muzzle break pinned mean?

    The magazine thing I understand that is pretty clear unlike everything else.
  • vicg1vicg1 Member Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Myloadedmemory11
    Spikes Tactical does sell fully assembled guns on their web page. Pirce they advertise is $1200+ I imagine MSRP with no add-ons.

    I asked the seller if it was NY state legal since he was in New York state the response I received was - The stock has to be pinned, the muzzle break pinned and welded.

    I am guess that is the muzzle is welded to the upper receiver. What is the muzzle break pinned mean?

    The magazine thing I understand that is pretty clear unlike everything else.


    A muzzle break is not the same as a flash hider. TSR said flash hider, which would not be legal.

    Welding or blind pinning a brake on would be legal. Blind pinning is drilling thru the brake, inserting a pin, and covering the hole with a weld... keeps it from being able to be removed easily.
  • tsr1965tsr1965 Member Posts: 8,682 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by vicg1
    quote:Originally posted by Myloadedmemory11
    Spikes Tactical does sell fully assembled guns on their web page. Pirce they advertise is $1200+ I imagine MSRP with no add-ons.

    I asked the seller if it was NY state legal since he was in New York state the response I received was - The stock has to be pinned, the muzzle break pinned and welded.

    I am guess that is the muzzle is welded to the upper receiver. What is the muzzle break pinned mean?

    The magazine thing I understand that is pretty clear unlike everything else.


    A muzzle break is not the same as a flash hider. TSR said flash hider, which would not be legal.

    Welding or blind pinning a brake on would be legal. Blind pinning is drilling thru the brake, inserting a pin, and covering the hole with a weld... keeps it from being able to be removed easily.



    Blind pinning does not mean cover anything with weld. It means drill the pin hole partially thru, so the pin can not be pushed out. It does not matter what the device is, a break, flashider, or a simple thread protector, it can't be removable. I had to have the threaded muzzle on my GAP-10, covered with a chemically bonded muzzle nut. The cover with weld is for looks only. How would you go about blind pinning a retractable stock? I have seen breaks, that were called breaks, that look like flash hider's too...it all depends on what you, or the arresting officer calls it.


    Myloadedmemory11,

    If you buy anything new, you will not be able to have a collapsable stock, or anything but a pinned or welded break, and no high capacity mags in NY, unless they are pre-ban. I live in Wayne, county by the way.

    The best thing to do, is forget about NEW, and get a like new preban.

    Best
  • vicg1vicg1 Member Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by tsr1965
    quote:Originally posted by vicg1
    quote:Originally posted by Myloadedmemory11
    Spikes Tactical does sell fully assembled guns on their web page. Pirce they advertise is $1200+ I imagine MSRP with no add-ons.

    I asked the seller if it was NY state legal since he was in New York state the response I received was - The stock has to be pinned, the muzzle break pinned and welded.

    I am guess that is the muzzle is welded to the upper receiver. What is the muzzle break pinned mean?

    The magazine thing I understand that is pretty clear unlike everything else.


    A muzzle break is not the same as a flash hider. TSR said flash hider, which would not be legal.

    Welding or blind pinning a brake on would be legal. Blind pinning is drilling thru the brake, inserting a pin, and covering the hole with a weld... keeps it from being able to be removed easily.



    Blind pinning does not mean cover anything with weld. It means drill the pin hole partially thru, so the pin can not be pushed out. It does not matter what the device is, a break, flashider, or a simple thread protector, it can't be removable. I had to have the threaded muzzle on my GAP-10, covered with a chemically bonded muzzle nut. The cover with weld is for looks only. How would you go about blind pinning a retractable stock? I have seen breaks, that were called breaks, that look like flash hider's too...it all depends on what you, or the arresting officer calls it.



    Not according to ATF... Don't spread mis-information that could get someone locked up.

    http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5320-8/atf-p-5320-8.pdf

    "Permanent methods of attachment include full-fusion gas or electric steel-seam welding, high-temperature (1100?F) silver soldering, or blind pinning with the pin head welded over."
  • nmyersnmyers Member Posts: 16,798 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The OP is concerned only with NYS law, not federal. ATF P5300.5 doesn't show that NYS cares about pinned vs. welded vs. anything else. It's the threaded barrel or flash suppressor that's a problem. Or, it's the resemblance to a Colt AR-15. Or, the NY AG may have a different interpretation. Andrew is correct: the only thing that matters is what your local FFL believes that he can legally transfer to you.

    Neal

    "22. "Assault weapon" means
    (a) a semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to
    accept a detachable magazine and has at least
    two of the following characteristics:
    (i) a folding or telescoping stock;
    (ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously
    beneath the action of the weapon;
    (iii) a bayonet mount;
    (iv) a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed
    to accommodate a flash suppressor;
    (v) a grenade launcher; or
    (b) a semiautomatic shotgun that has at least
    two of the following characteristics:
    (i) a folding or telescoping stock;
    (ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously
    beneath the action of the weapon;
    (iii) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of
    five rounds;
    (iv) an ability to accept a detachable magazine;
    or
    (c) a semiautomatic pistol that has an ability
    to accept a detachable magazine and has at
    least two of the following characteristics:
    (i) an ammunition magazine that attaches to
    the pistol outside of the pistol grip;
    (ii) a threaded barrel capable of accepting a
    barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward handgrip,
    or silencer;
    (iii) a shroud that is attached to, or partially or
    completely encircles, the barrel and that permits
    the shooter to hold the firearm with the nontrigger
    hand without being burned;
    (iv) a manufactured weight of fifty ounces or
    more when the pistol is unloaded;
    (v) a semiautomatic version of an automatic
    rifle, shotgun or firearm; or
    (d) any of the weapons, or functioning frames
    or receivers of such weapons, or copies or duplicates
    of such weapons, in any caliber, known
    as:
    (i) Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies
    Avtomat Kalashnikovs (all models);
    (ii) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI
    and Galil;
    (iii) Beretta Ar70 (SC-70);
    (iv) Colt AR-15;
    (v) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, and
    FNC;
    (vi) SWD M-10, M-11, M-11/9, and M-12;
    (vii) Steyr AUG;
    (viii) INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9 and TEC-
    22; and
    (ix) revolving cylinder shotguns, such as (or
    similar to) the Street Sweeper and Striker 12"
  • vicg1vicg1 Member Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by nmyers
    The OP is concerned only with NYS law, not federal. ATF P5300.5 doesn't show that NYS cares about pinned vs. welded vs. anything else. It's the threaded barrel or flash suppressor that's a problem. Or, it's the resemblance to a Colt AR-15. Or, the NY AG may have a different interpretation. Andrew is correct: the only thing that matters is what your local FFL believes that he can legally transfer to you.

    Neal

    "22. "Assault weapon" means
    (a) a semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to
    accept a detachable magazine and has at least
    two of the following characteristics:
    (i) a folding or telescoping stock;
    (ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously
    beneath the action of the weapon;
    (iii) a bayonet mount;
    (iv) a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed
    to accommodate a flash suppressor;
    (v) a grenade launcher; or
    (b) a semiautomatic shotgun that has at least
    two of the following characteristics:
    (i) a folding or telescoping stock;
    (ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously
    beneath the action of the weapon;
    (iii) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of
    five rounds;
    (iv) an ability to accept a detachable magazine;
    or
    (c) a semiautomatic pistol that has an ability
    to accept a detachable magazine and has at
    least two of the following characteristics:
    (i) an ammunition magazine that attaches to
    the pistol outside of the pistol grip;
    (ii) a threaded barrel capable of accepting a
    barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward handgrip,
    or silencer;
    (iii) a shroud that is attached to, or partially or
    completely encircles, the barrel and that permits
    the shooter to hold the firearm with the nontrigger
    hand without being burned;
    (iv) a manufactured weight of fifty ounces or
    more when the pistol is unloaded;
    (v) a semiautomatic version of an automatic
    rifle, shotgun or firearm; or
    (d) any of the weapons, or functioning frames
    or receivers of such weapons, or copies or duplicates
    of such weapons, in any caliber, known
    as:
    (i) Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies
    Avtomat Kalashnikovs (all models);
    (ii) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI
    and Galil;
    (iii) Beretta Ar70 (SC-70);
    (iv) Colt AR-15;
    (v) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, and
    FNC;
    (vi) SWD M-10, M-11, M-11/9, and M-12;
    (vii) Steyr AUG;
    (viii) INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9 and TEC-
    22; and
    (ix) revolving cylinder shotguns, such as (or
    similar to) the Street Sweeper and Striker 12"


    A threaded bbl is no good.

    If the brake isn't permanent, it is still a threaded bbl. Screwing a brake onto a threaded bbl does not make it an un-threaded bbl if it can be easily removed.
  • tsr1965tsr1965 Member Posts: 8,682 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    All of my AR-15 type rifles, either are not threaded because they have a bull barrel, or they have a flash hider that is not pinned or welded, except 1, and that has a chemically bonded muzzle nut on it, that is approved by NYS, and federal law. They are all PRE-BAN, except the one with the chemically bonded nut, and that is on my AR-10.

    The NYS laws are not an exact mirror of the federal ban, but pretty close. As such, they pertain nothing to the vicg1 posted, as that mainly has to do with NFA weapons.

    If the "breaks" have to be pinned and welded, then the manufacturers/distributors that are sending "NYS compliant" weapons, do not fully understand it either.


    If you are going to post links, make sure they pertain to the AWB in NYS, not the NFA act, which has nothing to do with the AWB in NYS, as Neal was kind enough to point out.


    Best
  • givettegivette Member Posts: 10,886
    edited November -1
    I opted for a Colt Sporter (made in 1974). Now, and with that said, and as I live in NY state, there's no problem with threaded barrels, or the type of muzzle device placed thereto.

    It all hinges on the pre-ban date of manufacturer of that particular rifle's receiver.

    Same as the magazines. I have 20rd Colt magazines. Colt stopped the 20rd magazine line in 1979.

    Just research the SerNo, to determine whether or not the receiver/gun has been manufactured pre-ban (Federal ban), or not.

    Best, Joe
  • vicg1vicg1 Member Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by tsr1965
    All of my AR-15 type rifles, either are not threaded because they have a bull barrel, or they have a flash hider that is not pinned or welded, except 1, and that has a chemically bonded muzzle nut on it, that is approved by NYS, and federal law. They are all PRE-BAN, except the one with the chemically bonded nut, and that is on my AR-10.

    The NYS laws are not an exact mirror of the federal ban, but pretty close. As such, they pertain nothing to the vicg1 posted, as that mainly has to do with NFA weapons.

    If the "breaks" have to be pinned and welded, then the manufacturers/distributors that are sending "NYS compliant" weapons, do not fully understand it either.


    If you are going to post links, make sure they pertain to the AWB in NYS, not the NFA act, which has nothing to do with the AWB in NYS, as Neal was kind enough to point out.


    Best


    ? You are lost. NFA act?

    You can not have a threaded barrel if it's not covered by a permanent brake. If not permanent it's still threaded as far as the law is concerned. If permanent it's the same as not having threads since you in theory will never be able to get to them.

    I am an FFL and have been in NYS and FL for years. Also licensed as a manufacturer of firearms. Every NYS compliant AR will either not have a muzzle device or it will have a permanent brake. NY has never actually stated what would be acceptable as far as permanent attachment so the federal definitions are utilized.

    And blind pinning is still blind pinning, same as it always has been, and that includes welding over the hole.
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