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147gr 9mmTMJ

lvpattlvpatt Member Posts: 309 ✭✭✭
edited February 2014 in Ask the Experts
is there any reason not to use the nato 147gr TMJ 9mm in good quality hand guns?
thanks

pat

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    gunnut505gunnut505 Member Posts: 10,290
    edited November -1
    I'm thinkin' that if it won't blow up a Beretta; it should be safe to fire in almost any other gun chambered for it.
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    Laredo LeftyLaredo Lefty Member Posts: 13,451 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    No, there is no reason not to.
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    rufe-snowrufe-snow Member Posts: 18,650 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Test fire it in the pistol you intend to carry it in. Some of the 147 grain JHP's, have a flat nose profile that might cause feeding problems in your handgun.

    Bought some white box Winchesters once that weren't compatible with my KelTec P 11. On the other hand, Remington Golden Sabres have a radius on the nose just behind the HP. That seems to feed through any semi-auto without problems.
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    rufe-snowrufe-snow Member Posts: 18,650 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by rufe-snow
    Test fire it in the pistol you intend to carry it in. Some of the 147 grain JHP's, have a flat nose profile that might cause feeding problems in your handgun.

    Bought some white box Winchesters once that weren't compatible with my KelTec P 11. On the other hand, Remington Golden Sabres have a radius on the nose just behind the HP. That seems to feed through any semi-auto without problems.





    EDIT #1,

    Didn't notice that you specified "NATO". In your original post. As far as I know all Nato military ammo is FMJ. Never run across any, with a 147 grain bullet weight though? There are some 124 grain FMJ's floating around, that are loaded super hot for submachine guns. Had a chance to buy some Hirtenburg loaded to 1400 FPS years ago, but passed on it.
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    TxsTxs Member Posts: 18,801
    edited November -1
    The only 9mm 147gr military load I'm aware of is the DoD AS260 round. It's a 147gr. JHP for CONUS use only by US military LE outfits.

    What are the headstamp snd container markings on this 147gr TMJ ammo?
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    lvpattlvpatt Member Posts: 309 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    i must have misunderstood.
    how about the 115gr tmj rn?
    are they ok in good quality pistols, target practice?
    any disadvantages?
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    beantownshootahbeantownshootah Member Posts: 12,776 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by lvpatt
    is there any reason not to use the nato 147gr TMJ 9mm in good quality hand guns?
    thanks

    pat


    The standard NATO round is 124 grain, loaded to pressures approximating +P ammo. This is basically the global standard when it comes to 9mm "service" loads. When one talks about "9mm NATO" this is what is referred to. There may be specialized ammo available for specialized applications (eg suppressed handguns) but I'm not aware of any standard 147 grain NATO ammo.

    *EVERY* service type handgun (and by that I mean a full sized handgun intended for military/police/duty use) in current manufacture by the larger "name" manufacturers (including Smith and Wesson, Ruger, Beretta, CZ, Glock, SIG, Taurus, etc) is OK to handle the NATO ammo in unlimited quantity. So sure, if you have this ammo, and want to fire it through a "real" 9mm pistol, go right ahead.

    Some of the older guns and/or "lesser" (ie pocket polymer) guns may not like large volumes of overpressure 9mm ammo, and use of this type of ammo, particularly in quantity can lead to frame damage and other premature wear of the guns. If you've got a Kel-Tec p11 or maybe an Old WWII era Walther p38, you're probably better off using something else.

    If you're asking about 147 grain ammo in particular, its also perfectly safe to use in any of the above guns. The caveat there was already mentioned. . .the 147 grain loads use a longer-than usual bullet, and some use a truncated cone design. Because of the different bullet designs some guns won't feed some of these rounds reliably. FWIW, I've have no issue with 147 grain ammo in my CZ-75 or Walther 9mm pistols, and I've seen it run fine through Glocks and a few others, but before you carry this ammo, you should test it to make sure its runs 100% through your particular gun. But if it runs, it should be perfectly safe to use. As mentioned above, probably the "best" use of these heavier than normal weight bullets is in suppressed guns to keep the muzzle velocity below the speed of sound. While some think this ammo offers better stopping power than 124 grain ammo, personally I'm skeptical.

    On 115 grain ammo with full metal jacket and round nose, that should basically run though *ANY* 9mm pistol (period). It offers low recoil, and is usually economically priced, so many shooters like this stuff for target/practice purposes.

    The 'only' downside to this particular type of ammo is that its usually loaded to somewhat lower pressure than the "service" ammo. So performance (ie "stopping power") probably won't be as good as the NATO or +P type service ammo. Assuming I had a choice of better ammo available, I wouldn't pick this ammo for personal defense. But on the other hand, if that's all I had, I certainly wouldn't hesitate to use it (and I have carried it before). This "lesser" 9mm ammo is still vastly better than any .22, .25, .380 round or 9mm Makarov, and its still better than most .38s (including specialty Speer Gold Dot "snubnose" 110 grain .38+P). Its nothing to sneeze at and its plenty good enough if you put the rounds in the right place.

    Edit, responding to below:

    quote:NATO stuff aside, I much prefer 147 grain 9mm. The FELT recoil is less sharp than the lighter, faster loads. I call it my 10 shot .38 Special. I seek out roundnose bullets for handloading, the flatpoints that look like hollowpoints with the hole filled in can feed less well.
    Obviously, some of this is subjective, but many shooters find that heavier bullet weight 147 grain rounds offer MORE recoil. That's been my personal experience with these, firing them mixed in magazines with other bullet weights.

    But in any case, its not a big difference. Its a little more noticeable from lightweight compact/polymer guns. From a full sized all steel gun, I barely notice any difference at all in recoil between any of the "service" type 9mm loads. All of them have a little more recoil than light practice/target loads, but again, even there its not all that much. You'll get more recoil from just about ANY .40SW than ANY 9mm luger, IMO.

    quote:Mobuck
    If you just want to drill 3/8 holes, those 147 FMJ's are the ticket.
    In theory heavier bullets offer better penetration, so if that were what you were after, then 147 grain bullets "should" be better than lighter ones. "Nobody" is using 9mm handgun rounds for hunting, but if you had to for some reason, there might be some advantage here against medium (or heaven forbid large) game.

    Most people use .45s for this, but heavier weight bullets also could provide some advantage if you were trying to knock things over (eg bowling pins, or steel targets, for example).

    I think the main point of 147 grain bullets is that they were designed to help stay below the speed of sound (ie "subsonic") from suppressed pistols. If you wanted to use a suppressed 9mm, but keep high power, then you'll want these, or something similar.

    For "Joe Schmoe", I don't think 147 grain bullets offer any real advantage over usual 124 or 115 grainers. They're not necessarily "worse", just not better. Main thing is that if you're going to use any round for personal protection, you pick one with a good bullet designed for that purpose.
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    Hawk CarseHawk Carse Member Posts: 4,374 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    NATO stuff aside, I much prefer 147 grain 9mm. The FELT recoil is less sharp than the lighter, faster loads. I call it my 10 shot .38 Special. I seek out roundnose bullets for handloading, the flatpoints that look like hollowpoints with the hole filled in can feed less well.
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    MobuckMobuck Member Posts: 13,863 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If you just want to drill 3/8 holes, those 147 FMJ's are the ticket.
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