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Help Identifying Antique Belgium Shotgun

pahrumpauctionpahrumpauction Member Posts: 10 ✭✭
edited August 2012 in Ask the Experts
I have a shotgun that I am trying to find out more info.
I have a few notes that I got from a local dealer, would like to see if anyone else has more info.

Double Barrel Shotgun
Double Trigger
Stamped The Oriental on one side of Recevier
Machine Made on the other side.

underside of barrels stamped 17.6 and 17.8

Bottom of butt plate has Lion, Crown, and another symbol.

Comments

  • rufe-snowrufe-snow Member Posts: 18,649 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Need quality photos for accurate identification and valuation.

    Instructions for posting photos, at this link.

    http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=259294
  • perry shooterperry shooter Member Posts: 17,390
    edited November -1
    17.6 and 17.8 is the amount of Choke on each barrel . unless we have quality close up well lit pictures it can be $100.00 wall hanger with damascus barrels to a $5000.00 High Grade gun.

    Edit Most likely close to that $100.00 wall hanger . I for one would not fire the gun before taking to a GOOD SHOTGUN gunsmith to look it over. Most likely made before WW I
  • pahrumpauctionpahrumpauction Member Posts: 10 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Pics of Shotgun
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  • Ned FallNed Fall Member Posts: 662 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Looked in all my reference books and could find no reference to either name ORIENTAL or THE ORIENTAL. That's no surprise though as there were so many odd ball names used. The words MACHINE MADE refer to the fact that the gun was made on machinery instead of by hand which would put it some time in the early 1900s. Take a look at the bottom of the barrels under the forearm and I suspect you will find Belgian proof marks which consist of the letters "ELG" in an oval with a crown on top. Thousands of inexpensive Belgian made shotguns were imported into the U.S. between 1880 and 1914 when World War One cutoff exports from Europe. This is most likely one of those guns.
  • He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 49,592 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    While it might have gotten $150 as a wall hanger a few years ago, it likely would not bring over $100 in these more challenging times.
  • jerrymacjerrymac Member Posts: 52 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    This looks like the one I have but in better shape. But mine has Eclipse on the side and has the crown and the 17.6-18.2on one barrel and 180 on the other. Can't find and thing on gun or parts.
  • deerhidedeerhide Member Posts: 224 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It's nearly identical to my grandfathers 10ga.(Union Machine Company, fine twist)which he bought new in NYC in 1905.
    50 years ago I shot plenty of ducks with it using whatever shells I could get, including magnums, no problem!
    I won't even shoot it now :):)
  • Ned FallNed Fall Member Posts: 662 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    To Jerrymac and Deerhide. You both have Belgian made "Trade Brand Name" shotguns. A "trade Brand Name " shotgun is one that was made by a major maker for and was sold in these cases by an importer. While I have no idea who the importer both guns were made by the same maker only with different names. The ECLIPSE gun was made by Anciens Establissment Pieper and the UNION MACHINE COMPANY gun was made by Henri Pieper. Both names belong to the same maker who was located in Liege. Belgium. They were known as Henri Pieper before 1905 and Anciens Establissment Pieper after 1905. While I have nothing that says so, I suspect that the ORIENTAL gun was made by them also. There are no serial number-year made tables for this maker but all three guns had to have been made some time between 1880 and 1914 when World War One, The Great War or The War To End All Wars (your choice) cut off exports from Europe and Belgium. All three guns should have Belgian proof marks stamped on the bottom of the barrels consisting of the letters "ELG" in an oval with a crown on top. Al;l the gun were designed and made for the ammunition in use back then which was 2 1/2 inch shot shells loaded with black powder and lead shot. They were not designed for longer shells, 2 9/16 or 2 3/4 loaded with smokeless powder and certainly not 3 inchers or magnums loaded with high pressure smokeless powder and steel shot or slugs. Without being able to examine the guns, I have to recommend that they not be fired. The marking MACHINE MADE shows that the gun was made on machinery and not by hand. Need to know more?
  • jerrymacjerrymac Member Posts: 52 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Go to {Elsewhere} type in Henri Pieper and you will get all the info you need.
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