In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.
Options
"Not for handgun use"
Mgderf
Member Posts: 907 ✭✭✭
I just saw some Nobel brand 2 1/2" .410 ammunition for sale that advertised 1200 fps.
At the end of the ad was a disclaimer that read "not recommended for handgun use".
Why would it be NOT recommended for handgun use?
At the end of the ad was a disclaimer that read "not recommended for handgun use".
Why would it be NOT recommended for handgun use?
Comments
I've seen Federal brand ammunition that is marked specifically as "handgun ammo" (.410ga).
Would you experience any over-pressure problems if you put "handgun ammo" into a long gun? Would the extra barrel length allow too much time for pressure to build?
So far as I can tell, there is NO DIFFERENCE whatsoever between the .410 pistol ammo and the shotgun ammo. Edit: The difference in labelling as "handgun" ammo is mostly about marketing, not about ballistics.
Nobel is probably telling you their ammo is "not recommended for pistol use" because the ballistics of .410 shotgun ammo from a handgun are absolutely lousy.
Apart from the singular application of killing snakes at a few yards, in practice a .410 handgun isn't useful for busting anything other than balloons at more than a few yards distance.
Remember even a full sized .410 shotgun is really only useful for hunting small (ie rabbit sized or less) things at short distances or breaking clays at hand-thrown distances. Shot payload is so small that even at relatively short distances, you're just as likely to wound medium game as kill it. At conventional shotgun distances, the gap between pellets in the pattern makes a .410 effectively worthless against virtually EVERYTHING.
So in my opinion its insane to think that a shotgun caliber not even powerful enough to kill a duck would be "dandy" for, say, personal defense against an angry intoxicated 200 lb adult male.
I apppreciate your concerns.
The ammunition I was looking at is actually 000 buck. It has 3@ .36cal balls in each round, and is ONLY intended for "up close and personal" defense. It may not kill, but I'd think at rooms length distance, it would sure put a hurtin' on ya!
Beantown,
I apppreciate your concerns.
The ammunition I was looking at is actually 000 buck. It has 3@ .36cal balls in each round, and is ONLY intended for "up close and personal" defense. It may not kill, but I'd think at rooms length distance, it would sure put a hurtin' on ya!
I'm sure it would hurt (badly), but that's really not the point. If I'm going to rely on a self-defense weapon with all the legal ramifications of using deadly force, then I'm going to pick the most effective weapon I can handle.
Put differently, a .22LR will still hurt too, and it certainly could kill someone, but I'm not going to deliberately select one for self-defense when there are much better options available.
Now, if your 000 buck pellets are fired from a full-length shotgun barrel, they'll get about 1200-1250 fps muzzle velocity. At 70 grains each, each .36 caliber 000 buckshot pellet would be roughly comparable in a single lightweight .380 ACP round. Its debatable whether three .380s at once are better than say, one .357 magnum, but in any case that level of performance is not too shabby, all things considered. .410 buckshot from an actual SHOTGUN might be worth talking about.
The problem is, when you fire the same .410 buckshot shell from a handgun, each 000 buckshot pellet only gets about 825 fps velocity, give or take some depending on barrel length, etc. That's a significant decrement in per-pellet velocity and performance.
At that "crawling" speed, each pellet only yields something like 115 ft-lbs of energy. To put it mildly, that's not a lot. . .its roughly comparable in energy terms to a .22LR.
As another basis for comparison there, imagine a weakly loaded .38 special wadcutter target round. This round puts out a 148 grain ball round at about 750 fps. Now, while a .38 wadcutter is nothing to sneeze at, its not a particularly powerful round, and I think most authorities would tell you to pick something more powerful if you could handle it.
But even so, each weak .38 wadcutter is still roughly comparable to TWO of your 000 buckshot at once, delivering a projectile with over 2x the weight, and proportionately better penetration. Are you still interested in the 000 buckshot?
Bottom line is, even though 000 buckshot can deliver devastating performance from a 12 gauge shotgun, once you cut the payload down to only three (instead of nine) pellets, and cut their velocities by over 1/3 from a short handgun barrel, you're only delivering a small fraction (roughly 1/6) of the total energy of the "real" buckshot load.
If you're going to be using a Taurus Judge, I think you'll see significantly better terminal ballistic performance from just an ordinary .45LC slug.
The .45 will put out one 230 grain bullet at 930(+) fps. Not only is the .45 going to be more accurate, and deliver a heavier total payload (meaning more penetration), but starting at a higher starting velocity it will also deliver more energy than the total of your three .36 caliber balls.
Put differently, if you're going to get into a fight, who do you want on your side, one 230 lb weightlifter, or three 70lb midgets?
If you're going to be using a Taurus Judge, I think you'll see significantly better terminal ballistic performance from just an ordinary .45LC slug.I've witnessed the results of .410 use on humans on more than one occasion.
The goal of a self defense round is to STOP an immediate threat as quickly as possible, with lethality being just incidental effect.
Based on my observations I wouldn't choose any .410 loading for self defense.