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Caliber Question

flcrackerflcracker Member Posts: 20 ✭✭
edited November 2011 in Ask the Experts
How does the 5.45x39 as a general purpose and defense round compare to the 5.56. My principal concerne would be a defensive round. I understand that this round was designed as a military caliber, but would like to know if it has applications for varmint use as well. I see that S&W is fielding a M&P Ar style rifle in this caliber, and was curious as to it's comparison overall to the 5.56. I know that this is a vague question, I apologize, but any information on this caliber would be appreciated (ie): strengths and weaknesses, accuracy, stopping power and effective ranges.
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    flcrackerflcracker Member Posts: 20 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    can someone explain the suffix on calibers like 30-06, 30-30.
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    flcrackerflcracker Member Posts: 20 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have an early Bay State Arms falling block rifel, large frame. There are no marking for the caliber. Is there a listing anywhere of the calibers offered for this rifel. The best I can tell from my chamber casting and using Ctgs of the World for an I.D. is that it may be a 38-45 Stevens. I'm not sure if this was even offered.
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    flcrackerflcracker Member Posts: 20 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Might someone please tell me the differences between 45.70(govt) and 45.75?

    Will 45.70 safely chamber and fire in a rifle that is chambered for 45.75?

    I have always understood that the 70-75 numbers signify the weight in grains of the powder charge in the cartridge.

    Thanks much.

    FLc
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    GeriGeri Member Posts: 2,089 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Short answer, No. The 45-75 is a bottle necked cartridge, and shorter than the 45-70.
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    givettegivette Member Posts: 10,886 ✭
    edited November -1
    ...and, yes. You are correct. The second number in the cartridge designation usually equates to the weight (in grains), of black powder.

    In straight walled cases of the same diameter, It can also loosely be determined to equate to the length of the cartridge case.

    Best, Joe
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    heavyironheavyiron Member Posts: 1,421 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hi,

    The case length of the 45-70 is 2.106 inches. The case length for the 45-75 is 1.89 inches.

    Therefore,the 45-70 will not chamber in a rifle chambered for 45-75.

    Cartridge nomenclature follows generalizations but is not absolute because there are always exceptions, especially with cartridges of this era. In this case the 45-70 and 45-75 are not the same cartridge. However, the 45-82, 45-85, 45-90, and 45-90 High Velocity Winchester are basically all the same cartridge with different powder charges and different bullet weights which makes things very confusing.

    A good cartridge reference guide should be consulted when comparing cartridge.

    Best.

    Heavyiron


    Best.

    Heavyiron
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    TRAP55TRAP55 Member Posts: 8,270 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    You didn't say what rifle, or what .45/75.
    The .45/75 Winchester is a bottle neck case.
    The .45/75 Sharps is a straight walled case. It's also known as the Sharps .45 2 1/10", and the Sharps 45/70.
    The .45/70 Govt. is identical to the Sharps .45/75, Sharps just marketed the same cartridge with their brand.
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    TfloggerTflogger Member Posts: 3,285 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    IMO a copy of "Cartridges of The World" by Frank Barnes is a must have for anyone that likes old or unusual firearms.
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    flcrackerflcracker Member Posts: 20 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks very much to all who have helped.

    I have a bad case of GAS, for a Winchester 1876 clone, by Chaparral Arms. I wanted to buy one in the big bore caliber, and they are offering one in the 45.75, but apparently no 45.70's.

    I find that the availability of 45.75 rounds, at least online, is pretty much non-existent, so that's a BIG negative.

    How does the 45.75 compare to the 45.70 as a 'meat on the table' rifle?... Will it for instance easily take down a feral hog, deer, or black bear?

    These rifles are pretty pricey to be just a 'wall hanger'.

    Thanks once again guys....you're the best!

    FLc
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    tsr1965tsr1965 Member Posts: 8,682 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by flcracker
    Thanks very much to all who have helped.

    I have a bad case of GAS, for a Winchester 1876 clone, by Chaparral Arms. I wanted to buy one in the big bore caliber, and they are offering one in the 45.75, but apparently no 45.70's.

    I find that the availability of 45.75 rounds, at least online, is pretty much non-existent, so that's a BIG negative.

    How does the 45.75 compare to the 45.70 as a 'meat on the table' rifle?... Will it for instance easily take down a feral hog, deer, or black bear?

    These rifles are pretty pricey to be just a 'wall hanger'.

    Thanks once again guys....you're the best!

    FLc


    The 1876 action was an enlarged 1873 action, and was shorter in working length than the 1886. That is why the 1876 was not chambered in 45-70 Gov't. If you snoop around a little bit you can find the 45-75 Winchester brass, and it is most likely going to be a reloading proposistion.

    The 45-75 will do most anything the 45-70 Gov't. will, when loaded up to the pressures meant for the old rounds. However, with new design's and materials of the 1885 single shot, 1874 Sharps, 1886 Winchester, and the 1895 Marlin, the 45-70 Gov't. made the transistion from black powder to smokless powder. The 45-75 did not make this transistion, but I am sure a nonfouling black powder substitute can be used in its place. It should wortk fine for deer, black bear, and hogs.

    Best

    EDIT 1

    Here is a link for you...has brass, and dies available.

    http://www.midwayusa.com/product/159148/bertram-reloading-brass-45-75-winchester-box-of-20

    Best
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    Hawk CarseHawk Carse Member Posts: 4,368 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Friends don't let friends shoot Bertram brass if anything else is available. Buffalo Arms has some Jamison left but that company has folded; the other option is necked down .50-70, which BA makes themselves.

    You could get the 1876 copy in .45-60 which can be made by cutting off .45-70. Still not much choice for the non-handloader but the parent brass is readily available.

    A non-handloader should transfer his affection to the 1886 repros which are available in .45-70 with no fuss, muss, or bother.
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    flcrackerflcracker Member Posts: 20 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    My GAS has subsided...at least for now.

    Would still love to own the rifle, but the cost of the ammo, considering having to buy all the necessary reloading equipment to load empty brass at 4 bux a round, plus powder, primers and bullets, way to cost prohibitive for this ol' timer. I think the 45.60 would be the better choice however, considering the better availability of 45.70 brass to work with.

    For anyone else interested, here's the link to where I found the '76 models: http://site.cdnninvestments.com/CDNN2011-4/index.html (page 62)

    Very best to all who helped me out here with a quick lesson in antique calibers. Hope the coming Christmas Holidays are the best ever for you!

    FLc
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