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225 winchester

trc313trc313 Member Posts: 3,475
edited May 2014 in Ask the Experts
A friend of mine picked up a model 70 in this caliber over the weekend. I was unfamiliar with it, but looked it up in a book about cartridges which said it was intended to replace the 220Swift.
Anyone have any experience with it, and is there much ammo to pick from out there?

What goes up must come down---(on someones head if you're lucky)

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    trc313trc313 Member Posts: 3,475
    edited November -1
    Could any one give me any history on this round? I don't think I have ever seen a box in a store or a rifle in this caliber. I got some reloading stuff at an estate sale and there were a set of dies in it.

    Thanks
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    trc313trc313 Member Posts: 3,475
    edited November -1
    Does anybody have an opinion on whether the 225 Winchester is a good cartridge. I know there isn't many around, but wondering if somebody with experience with one had some good or bad opinions. Thanks
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    charliemeyer007charliemeyer007 Member Posts: 6,579 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Downsized replacement for the 220 Swift. Winchester and a Savage both had bolt guns for it.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.225_Winchester
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    perry shooterperry shooter Member Posts: 17,390
    edited November -1
    Winchester Wanted To build a cartridge with WINCHESTER Firearm makers like to have a loading Named after them self as part of the name to compete with the 22/250 That was considered a WILD CAT at that time
    So they modified a 30/30 necking it down to .224 Diameter bullet First rifle I had in that chambering was a HEAVY barrel Model 70 . OK rifle ut too heavy for me . I hated the fact this was a rimmed Cartridge .. Poor choice for loading in Box Magazine IMHO . Winchester and Remington to This day Keep making the same mistake over and over expecting different results . I can name dozens of Cartridges That Have been brought out in the last 25 years that have failed to become Popular and all but discontinued.[V][xx(][:(]
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    20gabob20gabob Member Posts: 232 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Actually the cartridge was a redesign off of a necked down 6MM Lee Navy cartridge and was actually a semirimmed cartridge with slightly less powder capacity than the 22/250. Velocities were about 200 fps slower than the 22/250 and Remington had brought the 22/250 cartridge into the fold as a factory made round instead of it being a wildcat. Winchester dropped the 220 SWift which had been the main competition for the 22/250 and the rest is history, altho several manufacturers then produced guns for the swift and so it continues to live on. Great move Winchester even tho the swift was hard on barrels, with S/S barrels now don't hear so many complaints about barrel wear anymore.
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    rufe-snowrufe-snow Member Posts: 18,650 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I had a chance to get one of the Savages. Number of years ago. Glad I didn't! Winchester quit loading commercial ammo for it, years ago. Only source is custom loaders.

    IMHO, your best bet would be to sell the reloading dies on the auction. As the .225 brass is non standard, it's a orphan cartridge not worth screwing with.
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    AmbroseAmbrose Member Posts: 3,171 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have a couple of rifles in .225: a model 70 and a 670. The rim diameter is the same as .30/06, .308, etc. so the case fits a standard bolt face but the shell holder for reloading is the same one as the .220 Swift. In spite of the (semi-)rimmed case, I have not had feeding problems with the Winchesters. It's a good cartridge but the post 64 Winchester was not well liked and that, coupled with Remington standardizing the .22/.250 about then, pretty much killed it.

    EDIT: Ray, wouldn't the swift have worked? There's enough of a rim on the swift case that they hang up in the magazine of a Mauser that I have. It's a 2-shot rifle!
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    Ray BRay B Member Posts: 11,822
    edited November -1
    Several years back I was having a varmint rifle built on a Hi-Wall and needed at least a semi-rimmed case. the only factory round available in the US at the time was the 225. The 225 can be formed from 30-30 brass but it requires a lathe to turn and thin the rim to 30-06 dimensions. A one at a time, labor intensive project, if the 225 factory brass was unavailable. Instead of the 225 I got it chambered for 22/30-30 Ackley Improved (which is actually a full-blown wildcat). What's needed is to neck the cases down to 22 and fireform. A much easier prospect than the lathe- and I can use 30-30 cases- which used to be available most anywhere. But the 225 is still a good cartridge- just a supply problem.
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    Ray BRay B Member Posts: 11,822
    edited November -1
    the Swift probably would have, but at the time (early '80s) there wasn't much available for it either, and with it's non-standard sized case it is difficult to make. The 22/30-30 actually worked out very well- I got 20 boxes of loaded 30-30 ammunition, all of the same lot; broke down into components, which were used elsewhere and I ended up with about 395 formed cases.
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    Hawk CarseHawk Carse Member Posts: 4,373 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well, what I think they did was to offer a .22 centerfire less intimidating than the Swift. What they came up with was very close to the .219 Improved Zipper except with the rim reduced to fit a .30-06 bolt face. That was just for convenience in rifle manufacture, the round headspaced on the shoulder, just as the semirimmed Swift did.

    Remington commercializing the well established (Browing was already selling them.) .22-250 just blew the oddball out of the water.

    Rimmed and semirimmed bolt action rifle cartridges are not a problem for properly designed actions. Only the 1888 8mm and Mauser designs depended on rimless cartridges. And at one time, you could even get a Mauser with slanted magazine for rims, not to mention the Siamese Mauser.
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