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Remington Model 4 22 cal

ChukpikeChukpike Member Posts: 19
edited August 2008 in Ask the Experts
I have a Model 4 22cal rolling block rifle from 1919 and have 2 questions.

1. What was the finish coat on the wood? It is worn in places and I think I would like to refinish it.

2. I would like to remove the firing pin from the block and would like to know if I would be able to use the retaining pin over? Also looking for drawings or diagrams.

You can see photos on my flickr account in the Remington Photo set:
http://flickr.com/photos/chukpike/2810217406/

Comments

  • BOBBYWINSBOBBYWINS Member Posts: 7,810
    edited November -1
    No way would I refinish it.

    Judging by the photos,it's in pretty good original shape and by refinishing it,you'd be destroying it's value.[V]

    As for your 2nd question,I'm no master gunsmith by any means,but I would think the pin could be re-used if it's not worn or damaged.

    But that's just me.

    BW
  • MIKE WISKEYMIKE WISKEY Member, Moderator Posts: 9,961 ******
    edited November -1
    I've worked on a few #4's, the stock can be 'touche up' with a little boiled linseed oil (rub a little in and wipe it off). the f.p. retaining pin can be a tight fit and you may have to make a new one it the old one is damaged on removal.
  • Bert H.Bert H. Member Posts: 11,279 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hello Charlie,

    Your old Remington is in very good condition as compared to most I see. The stocks only need some TLC, and the entire rifle is 100% original. You would be doing it a great disservice to do anything other than a very careful cleaning. The stocks can be easily cleaned up with any quality wood furniture cleaner (not Polish).
  • ChukpikeChukpike Member Posts: 19
    edited November -1
    Thanks for the input and I hope someone can direct me to drawings.
    Here is the SN J256304.

    In past woodworking projects I have learned that Formby's products are recommended for fine furniture. I take it that the original coating was boiled linseed oil?

    I have a background in machinery repair and feel confident I can remove the pin without much damage. To get a tight fit on reinstalling the pin, it could be knurled slightly on the end. Don't really want to make a replacement.

    I received rifle last year in cleaning out my aunt's house for estate sale. I don't think she even new she had it. It was in a trunk with stuff that she got from my grandmother. It was probably bought by my grandfather new after his return from WWI. He died in an oil field accident in 1929 and it was probably put away then.

    I will start with a through cleaning and apply linseed oil. In refinishing it I did not mean I would try and remove dents and dings earned in use.

    I do have a question for Mike. What model Remington is pictured in your post?

    I appreciate Bert's response although it may be questionable considering his Winchester ad.
  • Bert H.Bert H. Member Posts: 11,279 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Chukpike
    I appreciate Bert's response although it may be questionable considering his Winchester ad.


    First, I am indeed a big Winchester fanatic (those that were invented and patented by John M. Browning), but Second, I am a single-shot fan. As such, I appreciate all of the early (quality) makes and models of single shot rifles... the Winchester Model 1885 (high-wall) just happens to be the very best of the entire class[^][8D][^]
  • Bill DeShivsBill DeShivs Member Posts: 1,264 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Most likely the original stock finish was a simple varnish, not linseed oil.
    This gun would be better off PROPERLY cleaned and left alone.
  • Shansei45Shansei45 Member Posts: 409 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Chukpike, I am a collector. I gently and lightly may clean a gun but I do as little as possible to CHANGE any of its original ambience. We are but caretakers of historical artifacts meant for future generations. They'll appreciate you MUCH more if you just LEAVE IT ALONE!

    I absolutely will NOT fire one of my collectibles. I have too many modern SIMILAR guns I can fire if the overwhelming desire to shoot something becomes unbearable. Just transporting a vintage weapon to the range exposes it to unnecessary risks of damage. Firing it, increases that risk. If you blew the side out of an old timer's chamber, wouldn't you feel proud???

    Leave it alone. Clean it if you must, but don't gamble with it.

    Just my MYTWOCENTWORTH001_edited.jpg

    Best regards ~ ~ ~ Shansei45
  • ChukpikeChukpike Member Posts: 19
    edited November -1
    I would like to maintain this rifle as original and cleaning and preserving the wood is part of that. This is why I wish to determine the original finish.

    As far as preserving the ambiance of this rifle, it was earned in use. Any additional firing could only enhance that ambiance. I have no intention of selling this rifle, so its value is in the pleasure I would get in using it as it was intended.

    I suggest to collectors who are concerned with possible damage to old weapons being used that they switch to collecting things that were designed to be seen. Things like paintings, statues, or medals.
    Rifles were first designed to be used and second for functionality and third to be attractive to potential buyers.

    If you are concerned about possible damage that might occur, it would only indicate that the weapon was defective and of little value anyway.

    Look at the bright side. if I fire it and it explodes, there will be one less weapon on the market to compete with your collection.

    Here is an example of a Brazilian Comblain Rifle M92 manufactured around 1888. With a photo of cartrige before and after firing.

    2177240958_cb1087a1f8.jpg

    2812041306_37f0bb589a_o.jpg
  • Bert H.Bert H. Member Posts: 11,279 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Chukpike
    I would like to maintain this rifle as original and cleaning and preserving the wood is part of that. This is why I wish to determine the original finish.


    The original finish was oil... not varnish.

    I agree with you... I shoot most of my old Winchesters, even though some of them are worth $15K+[:0]. All that is required is due care and proper loads.
  • ChukpikeChukpike Member Posts: 19
    edited November -1
    With the rifle in hand I am sure it is not varnish also. I think I will take it to a fine furniture restorer and try to determine what the original was for sure. I think it is boiled linseed, but would like to be sure. I have worked with tung oil and know just how beautiful a finish you can get with it. It leaves a finish that highlights the natural wood. If it is linseed I will use that.
  • Shansei45Shansei45 Member Posts: 409 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Chukpike
    I suggest to collectors who are concerned with possible damage to old weapons being used that they switch to collecting things that were designed to be seen. Things like paintings, statues, or medals.
    Rifles were first designed to be used and second for functionality and third to be attractive to potential buyers.

    If you are concerned about possible damage that might occur, it would only indicate that the weapon was defective and of little value anyway.

    Look at the bright side. if I fire it and it explodes, there will be one less weapon on the market to compete with your collection.

    As I said, that was only MY opinion. As for your "suggestion" that I collect something else because of my opinion, I find denegrating. I was not trying to insult or demean you, I was only stating my reasons. You have another view. That is your right. I don't have to agree.

    Why do you assume that an owner wanting to protecting an heirloom indicates it was "defective or of little value?"

    And as far as you thinking collectibles you - or anyone else owns - are being "comptetiion" to my collection, why would you respond with this kind of reply? I was only trying to be helpful with some advice based on 60 years of gun collecting experience. Sorry, but I'm NOT competing with anyone's collection. I can't. My pockets aren't as deep as many others'. My collection is for my own enjoyment. Due to age and poor health I'm unable to get out to a range or gun show, so I enjoy my guns as best I can.

    Yes, listen to Bert H. he is a leader in the field of knowledge on Winchesters and has been a great help for many of us. We may not agree on some things about collecting/shooting, but we still try to help each other.

    Shansei45
  • MIKE WISKEYMIKE WISKEY Member, Moderator Posts: 9,961 ******
    edited November -1
    the boiled linseed oil will only 'refresh' the wood and conver up minor scratches, if you want to shoot it I'd suggest standard velocity (target) ammo only (or CCI CB Longs). the # 4 isn't designed for hi speed ammo. And as to the post about old rifles, If in mechanicaly good condition they should be shot, and mantained.
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