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Has no one here shot a Millennium .45?

tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
edited September 2008 in Ask the Experts
That would be the Taurus millennium .45. If you have, please describe the imprint made by the striker/firing pin on the primer. Mine has an odd imprint that makes me think something is wrong with the gun.

Comments

  • ksredksred Member Posts: 6 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have a PT145. The firing pin mark has an elongated mark on it due to the short barrel rising as the slide comes back. If you lock your slide back and look at how the barrel points upward, the firing pin is still out against the primer when you fire the gun causing this mark.
    I also have an XD40SC that does this.
  • brickmaster1248brickmaster1248 Member Posts: 3,344
    edited November -1
    i have a pt111 in 9mm and i just went out and fired it to see and it seems to have the same primer strike as your describing but maybe not as pronounced.
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by ksred
    I have a PT145. The firing pin mark has an elongated mark on it due to the short barrel rising as the slide comes back. If you lock your slide back and look at how the barrel points upward, the firing pin is still out against the primer when you fire the gun causing this mark.
    I also have an XD40SC that does this.


    I thank you for your helpful response, but I still don't think this is a normal event nor should it be accepted by Millennium owners. Take an empty PT145 and using a flashlight, look down the barrel and observe the firing pin. When you pull the trigger, you will notice that the firing pin is only momentarily out of the firing pin hole. This means that the firing pin is (or should be) completely retracted even before the slide starts its rearward movement and before the barrel starts to move. This also means that, for the firing pin to be able to make that extra indentation, for some strange reason it would actually have to once again come out of the firing pin hole. If that is the case, then to me this is just plain bad engineering and I don't want to own such a gun.
  • CS8161CS8161 Member Posts: 13,535 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Taurus are less expensive than the XD's, FN's and Glocks for a reason....the quality control is subpar...they do have a lifetime warranty and if you ever have to send your pistol back for repair, it will be a lifetime before you get it back...and it will probably have the same problem. I avoid Taurus firearms, having owned one and been burnt.
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Chris8161
    Taurus are less expensive than the XD's, FN's and Glocks for a reason....the quality control is subpar...they do have a lifetime warranty and if you ever have to send your pistol back for repair, it will be a lifetime before you get it back...and it will probably have the same problem. I avoid Taurus firearms, having owned one and been burnt.


    Yours is a true statement and one that I should have followed long ago. But sadly I find it hard to pass on a brand new gun, made by a major gun manufacturer, that is so neat, looks great and is bargain priced. I keep thinking that someday Taurus is going to get things right with their production. I don't think Taurus even HAS a quality control section. I believe that after a firearm is produced, if they can get it to fire one cylinder or one mag downrange with nothing bad happening then that gun gets shipped and sold. They let the customers, like me, be their "quality control".
  • dcs shootersdcs shooters Member Posts: 10,969
    edited November -1
    When you look down the barrel with the flashlight, what is the shape of the hole, round or oblong [?][?]
  • ksredksred Member Posts: 6 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Like I said, I also have an XD40 Subcompact that does this also. So it is not just a Taurus thing.

    This question has been asked on the Taurus forums and I beleive XDTalk as well. From what I remember, everyone who has a Millennium or an XD Subcompact has this mark on their primers. I would assume any short barreled auto would do this.
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by ksred
    Like I said, I also have an XD40 Subcompact that does this also. So it is not just a Taurus thing.

    This question has been asked on the Taurus forums and I beleive XDTalk as well. From what I remember, everyone who has a Millennium or an XD Subcompact has this mark on their primers. I would assume any short barreled auto would do this.


    dcs shooter: the hole and firing pin are completely round. There should be no way that a deformed firing pin indentation should appear on the primer.

    ksred. Thank you for the info. But as long as the gun goes bang every time and fires a bullet down range, apparently too many people are willing to consider that as being a good and well functioning firearm. Despite the fact that the gun may exhibit signs of being on the verge of malfunctioning when it is needed most.

    I have discovered from my posts that not all the Taurus PT145s make that deformed primer mark. Yet you claim it is common with the Taurus and another brand. In view of that, shouldn't the owners of the various firearms whose guns do not make the deformed primer mark complain to the manufacturer and ask why their gun does not perform as does so many others? After all it is very odd that some firearms will make the deformed mark and others of the same model will not. Such difference clearly indicates that one or the other groups of that firearm are not functioning properly.. Think about it. How can it be otherwise? I'd like to know for my own education.
  • iceracerxiceracerx Member Posts: 8,807 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    tr fox, even the Taurus with the "drag" marks in functioning properly: you aren't getting any SLAM FIRES; failures to fire; failures to eject; failures to feed; stovepipes, etc.

    I believe that the problem is due to a weak Firing Pin SPRING.

    Your method of looking down the barrel, while never recommended, doesn't show you what happens when the slide is recoiling to the rear. Many different physical (Physics) factors come into play during recoil and may be the reason for the "drag" mark.
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by iceracerx
    tr fox, even the Taurus with the "drag" marks in functioning properly: you aren't getting any SLAM FIRES; failures to fire; failures to eject; failures to feed; stovepipes, etc.

    I believe that the problem is due to a weak Firing Pin SPRING.

    Your method of looking down the barrel, while never recommended, doesn't show you what happens when the slide is recoiling to the rear. Many different physical (Physics) factors come into play during recoil and may be the reason for the "drag" mark.


    I appreciate those who have tried to "reassure" me about my new firearm. If I was a normal person, I would happily go on my way and worry no more about this problem. But apparently I am not normal.

    In no way do I think this situation is as minor or as harmless as many others here seem to think. Surely you do not want to knowingly carry a firearm for protecting of your life that has "drag marks" on the primer, from the firing pin being somewhat engaged with the spent primer, as the firearm is attempting to perform it extraction and ejection cycle. Simply put, it you have "drag marks" and the friction caused by that "dragging" then to at least a small degree you have excessive "drag" on a firearm that is attempting to extract and eject a fire case and chamber another, fresh round. Even a small amount of such unplanned drag can never be a good thing.

    In addition, that extra drag on the firing pin, each time a round is fired over time has to cause tremendous extra wear and tear on the firing pin. This extra wear can cause the firing pin to wear out much too early or even perhaps to break when you don't expect it. Plus, since the drag is a clear sign that the firing pin is contacting the primer when it should not contact it, then maybe if you rack the slide with extreme vigor, when removing alive round from the chamber, perhaps that could cause a type of "slam-fire" when the slide, with the live round attached, moves fully to the eject position and the firing pin engages the live primer when it should not have been able to engage it.

    For example, suppose you are trying to defend your life with that firearm and you fire off a weak round, limp wrist the firearm, have a dirty firearm or any number of things that can happen to introduce unplanned difficulty in your firearms ability to function normally. Normally in regards to firing, extracting, ejecting and chambering a fresh round. That tiny, but extra drag on the firing pin across the spent primer (remember, that drag was not designed into the gun by the manufacturer) might be JUST ENOUGH of an extra problem to cause your firearm to malfunction and there you are facing an armed opponent with a gun that will not fire. Simply because you let a gun manufacturer put one over on you by getting you to accept a gun that had a feature (firing pin drag across the spent primer) that was not designed into the gun.

    I may be extreme, but if more people would quit accepting even minor "defects" in new firearms, maybe those manufacturers would start exercising some reasonable quality control.

    Bottom line. Generally it will not be good for you to have a firearm that does something that was not designed into it. Having a firing pin engage the primer when it is not needed, nor when it is not supposed to be engaging that primer, can never do anything but cause some kind of harm.
  • iceracerxiceracerx Member Posts: 8,807 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:For example, suppose you are trying to defend your life with that firearm and you fire off a weak round, limp wrist the firearm, have a dirty firearm or any number of things that can happen to introduce unplanned difficulty in your firearms ability to function normally. Normally in regards to firing, extracting, ejecting and chambering a fresh round. That tiny, but extra drag on the firing pin across the spent primer (remember, that drag was not designed into the gun by the manufacturer) might be JUST ENOUGH of an extra problem to cause your firearm to malfunction and there you are facing an armed opponent with a gun that will not fire. Simply because you let a gun manufacturer put one over on you by getting you to accept a gun that had a feature (firing pin drag across the spent primer) that was not designed into the gun.


    Just a few of the many reasons I carry a WHEELGUN for personal protection. I've yet to experience a FAILURE TO FEED, FAILURE TO EXTRACT, STOVEPIPE, etc, etc

    I also believe that you, tr fox, are assuming that what you are experiencing is unacceptable to Taurus or other firearms manufacturers. Without knowing the design intent of Taurus, and the fact that this event has no effect on extraction other then leaving a mark, who are we to judge?

    Your dissatisfaction is enough reason to return your pistol.

    PS - what brand of ammo are you using? Some primers are softer then others.
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