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Please shoot your Millennium 45 and then..

tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
edited September 2008 in Ask the Experts
exmine your primer strike and tell me if it is perfectlly round or if it has a "key hole" indentation to it. My Taurus PT145 .45 has a very odd looking primer strike indentation and I wonder if that is normal.

Comments

  • yachtdaveyachtdave Member Posts: 406 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    normal. they all do that
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    I have owned and shot guns most of my 66 years and never have I seen such an odd looking indentation on a primer. So if what you say is true, then I consider that a poor and flawed engineering design that I want nothing to do with. I am going to return the Taurus Millennium to Cabela's, get a refund and have nothing to do with Taurus products again. Over the years I have had way, way too many problems with Taurus firearms.

    And for anyone who would disagree, here is why. The Millennium has a perfectively round firing pin coming our of a perfectively round and smooth slide face/recoil plate. So if the indentation in the primer is anything other than perfectively round, then something is wrong. Something is happening to that empty case and spent primer, as it is in the process of being extracted and ejected, that should not be happening. And here is what is happening.

    For some reason the firing pin, after striking the primer and firing the round, is either remaining in contact with the primer re-contacting the primer during the extraction/ejection process. Either way, this unwanted and unneeded contact causes the firing pin to be "drug" across the primer as it is being ejected. This causes the line/mark that is nothing but a gouge showing that the firing pin was in contact with the primer as it was being ejected and therefore the firing pin was "drug" across the primer causing that line from the center of the primer to the edge of the primer. This causes the "exclamation" looking mark on the primer of the ejected case.

    Whether all of the Millenniums do this or not is unimportant to me. This should not happen and surely Taurus engineeers would never claim that this is engineered into the gun. This unwanted action can cause excessive wear on the firing pin. This unwanted action, because of the extra friction and possible binding at some point, might make the firearm suddenly become unreliable. I myself will not willing accept such a firearm for concealed carry and perhaps have to depend on such a poor design to protect myself or a loved one. Taurus can have it back.
  • dcs shootersdcs shooters Member Posts: 10,969
    edited November -1
    If the pin is round and draging across the primer, it means the gun is unlocking too soon. It needs a stronger recoil spring to fix that.quote:Originally posted by tr fox


    And for anyone who would disagree, here is why. The Millennium has a perfectively round firing pin coming our of a perfectively round and smooth slide face/recoil plate. So if the indentation in the primer is anything other than perfectively round, then something is wrong. Something is happening to that empty case and spent primer, as it is in the process of being extracted and ejected, that should not be happening. And here is what is happening.

    For some reason the firing pin, after striking the primer and firing the round, is either remaining in contact with the primer re-contacting the primer during the extraction/ejection process. Either way, this unwanted and unneeded contact causes the firing pin to be "drug" across the primer as it is being ejected. This causes the line/mark that is nothing but a gouge showing that the firing pin was in contact with the primer as it was being ejected and therefore the firing pin was "drug" across the primer causing that line from the center of the primer to the edge of the primer. This causes the "exclamation" looking mark on the primer of the ejected case.
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by dcs shooters
    If the pin is round and draging across the primer, it means the gun is unlocking too soon. It needs a stronger recoil spring to fix that.quote:Originally posted by tr fox


    And for anyone who would disagree, here is why. The Millennium has a perfectively round firing pin coming our of a perfectively round and smooth slide face/recoil plate. So if the indentation in the primer is anything other than perfectively round, then something is wrong. Something is happening to that empty case and spent primer, as it is in the process of being extracted and ejected, that should not be happening. And here is what is happening.

    For some reason the firing pin, after striking the primer and firing the round, is either remaining in contact with the primer re-contacting the primer during the extraction/ejection process. Either way, this unwanted and unneeded contact causes the firing pin to be "drug" across the primer as it is being ejected. This causes the line/mark that is nothing but a gouge showing that the firing pin was in contact with the primer as it was being ejected and therefore the firing pin was "drug" across the primer causing that line from the center of the primer to the edge of the primer. This causes the "exclamation" looking mark on the primer of the ejected case.





    Thank you but I do not believe that is the case here. After the firing pin does its job, it instantly retracts into the firing pin hole. In other words, when the trigger is pulled (whether held or released) the firing pin strikes the primer and then instantly retreats back into the firing pin hole well out of contact with the now spent primer. There is no way, even with a premature unlocking of the action, that at that particular point, the firing pin could still be in contact with the primer. I believe that for some reason, after the firing retreats from the primer, that somehow, someway the firing pin AGAIN comes into contact with the spent primer just as the ejection cycle begins. I can see no other way.

    And I can not see how a stronger recoil spring would solve this particular problem if indeed I have diagnosed properly. Because of my job I can purchase a Glock 30 (the mini Glock, 6 round mag in .45) for $440.00 which is only $70.00 more than I paid for the Taurus PT145. I'm taking the Taurus back to Cabela's and getting a cash refund. I am through with Taurus.
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    iceracerx, the other topic was locked so I will try and respond to you here.

    I am using the bulk, white box, wall mart Winchester ammo. That should not matter.

    I do not need to try and determine what the intend, plans, ideas, etc. of Taurus or any other gun manufacturer has in regards to designing their gun, for me to disagree with them. I do not care if I am totally ignorant about guns and gun designs and I am debating with the most educated gun design engineer in the world. Simply put, there is not, can not, be any good reason for a firing pin to gouge a primer during ejection. Such unwanted effect is, even if the gun works perfectly otherwise, is merely a preview of possible problems to come.

    To simplify, if it is fine for the firing pin to gouge the primer on ejection, why don't ALL makes and models of semi-autos do it? In fact, why is it that some Taurus PT145's gouge the primer and some don't? Because obviously something is wrong with one or the other in regards to their gouging/not gouging.

    To simplify even further, if you were going to purchase one of two Taurus firearms sitting on the gun counter in front of you and you knew one gouged the primer and one didn't please tell me exactly which one, and why, you would chose. , Your answer, if candid, will settle this disagreement for us.
  • iceracerxiceracerx Member Posts: 8,811 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Tr - I wouldn't buy a Taurus with YOUR money.

    However, I have a Government rebuilt Colt 1911A1 National Match that "drags" the primers from time to time. I have seen this happen to Rugers, Colts, Smith & Wesson autos, and a Llama.

    There are too many variables to try to point a finger at the root cause of this "problem" (Example: The case size of the ammo being only one - all products are manufactured to a "tolerance". If the case is sized to the minimum and the chamber to the maximum there may be an issue). Without the pistol in hand, and some handy dandy measuring devices I'm not going to even speculate about the cause.

    I think you are making a mtn out of a mole hill, but as I said before, your dissatisfaction is reason enough to return the pistol.
  • perry shooterperry shooter Member Posts: 17,390
    edited November -1
    Hello TRFOX before giving up on this pistol please do me a favor. With the slide off press the back of the firing pin and see if with the back of the pin flush with the firing pin stop the firing pin protrudes from the breach face of the slide "IT SHOULD NOT" as this if like all 1911 types is an inertia type firing pin. . Now take the firing pin stop out and make sure there is a firing pin return spring as well as make sure the firing pin itself does not have a burr or the hole is so small it DRAGS on the pin you can check for this by removing spring and tipping slide down pin should come out and when tipped back it should fall out the slide under it's own weight. I agree the pistol should function correctly as shipped but some times a very minor problem can slip through Q.C. Cheers Karl.

    EDIT [:0][:0][:0][:0]Hello I se4nt you an email let me know if you got it or not with an edit to your Post [:0][:0][:0]
  • tr foxtr fox Member Posts: 13,856
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by perry shooter
    Hello TRFOX before giving up on this pistol please do me a favor. With the slide off press the back of the firing pin and see if with the back of the pin flush with the firing pin stop the firing pin protrudes from the breach face of the slide "IT SHOULD NOT" as this if like all 1911 types is an inertia type firing pin. . Now take the firing pin stop out and make sure there is a firing pin return spring as well as make sure the firing pin itself does not have a burr or the hole is so small it DRAGS on the pin you can check for this by removing spring and tipping slide down pin should come out and when tipped back it should fall out the slide under it's own weight. I agree the pistol should function correctly as shipped but some times a very minor problem can slip through Q.C. Cheers Karl.


    Perry shooter. Thanks. I did as you suggested, The firing pin can be pushed to the end of the firing pin hole opening but cannot be made to protrude out of the hole. There is a firing pin return spring in place. I did not see any nicks, burrs or any other defects that might be causing a problem. Any suggestions?
  • givettegivette Member Posts: 10,886
    edited November -1
    TR..givette here. I believe you when you said "I'm through with Taurus". Post below is because you just posted a request for further input. If you decide to keep the firearm, then read on. Thanks, Joe

    Gotta go with previous post. Slide accelerating rearward too rapidly. Cartridge is hit twice, once upon firing, and the second time due to the recoil..same as if you took a mallet and hit the front of the barrel. Firing pin will slam forward every time you hit it with the mallet.

    See if you can get specs on an "as issued" recoil spring, and get [Wolff?] the very next stiffer spring offered for make, model, etc.
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