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Help identifying a family heirloom

fishgutzfishgutz Member Posts: 5 ✭✭
edited March 2019 in Ask the Experts
Hello fellas,
It's been sometime since I've been on the forum and it was for the same reason as today. Some years ago I posted some photos of an old pistol that my great-uncle brought home from Europe in about 1918 and I was gratified at the knowledgeable responses I got from this community. My grandfather was an amateur gunsmith/gunmaker and as a teenager I used to shoot an old .50 caliber black powder muzzle loader that he had hand made. (That's him 3rd from the right) It was a real tack-driver at 100 yards and loads of fun. Unfortunately, many of his guns and that one in particular were lost when my uncle died suddenly and his wife sold everything without a word to anyone.
That sad story brings me to today and one of the few guns of his that we did retain. Gramps has been dead for 53 years and this gun hasn't been shot (or cleaned) since years before that. As you can see from the photos, it's a Winchester, single-shot, .22LR with a lever-action. There is a rear peep sight that's been added behind the action over top of the Winchester stamp.There are also some mounting holes where you'd expect to find a conventional rear sight.
I don't suppose that it's of any great value...I'm curious as to the vintage, how common it might have been, and what was it designed specifically for as it's very heavy. So in advance I welcome any comments, ideas, jokes and snide remarks from anyone interested in sharing their knowledge.

Regards,
Fishgutz

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Comments

  • charliemeyer007charliemeyer007 Member Posts: 6,579 ✭✭✭
    edited March 2019
    I think that is right up Burt's alley. With the serial number he should be able to tell you more.

    added That '"horseshoe" mark looks to be a 'filled' screw hole to me.
  • fishgutzfishgutz Member Posts: 5 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I forgot to post the picture with the serial number...and another with what looks like a small repair on the stock. Maybe there was a sling mount there at one time.

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  • TRAP55TRAP55 Member Posts: 8,270 ✭✭✭
    edited March 2019
    I haven't seen Bert here since the new forums, I wonder if he's one of the members with the password problem?
    Model 1885 HiWall Winder Musket, 2nd Model? by the rear tangent sight screw holes, shortened forearm, it would have been full length. Chambered in .22 Short or Long Rifle. Used as a military trainer, the barrel sight mimicked the 1903 Springfield sight. The rear tang sight was an option on other 1885's, but not so sure on the Winder. As is around here, it'll bring around $500, complete original about $1200-1300.
    With the Serial number I can tell you when it was made. If Bert makes it back on, He'll likely have more.
    Edit to Add: Made Jan-Feb of 1916, and the buttstock repair is a plug where the sling mount was.
    Edit#2: Babun, The Winder barrel was stamped 22 SHORT or 22 LONG R, it looks like the R was over stamped with a flaming bomb proof.
  • babunbabun Member Posts: 11,054 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Until the real experts log on, just keep in mine, the .22LONG is not the same
    as a .22long rifle.
    The .22LONG is the LR length case with the shorter .22short bullet tip in it.
    Many guns marked .22 long may accept the longer .22LR shell if the bullet
    fits into the chamber.

    short ======= long =========long rifle

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  • fishgutzfishgutz Member Posts: 5 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks so much for the information guys. Always reliable and spot on. Now that I know what it's called I've enjoyed reading more about its design and use. Very cool.
    On a related note, due to a recent computer crash and hard drive loss I've no longer got the information on ol' Great-Uncle Willie's pistol so I'll post the pictures again in the hopes that someone can refresh my fading memory.

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  • Hawk CarseHawk Carse Member Posts: 4,365 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    That looks like a Dutch 1873 9.4mm service revolver.
  • TRAP55TRAP55 Member Posts: 8,270 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hawk Carse wrote:
    That looks like a Dutch 1873 9.4mm service revolver.
    Yep, Dutch de Beaumont 1873 Old Model 9.4mm revolver
  • Bill DeShivsBill DeShivs Member Posts: 1,264 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Your musket doesn't appear to have ever been stamped with an "R". An overstamp would not look like that.
    My bet is .22 Long Rifle won't chamber, and the gun is actually chambered fro long.
  • fishgutzfishgutz Member Posts: 5 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    To Bill DeShivs,
    I see your point about the .22 Long vs. .22 LR. I've attached an un-shadowed pic of the stamping to better show the marking where the "R" would likely be placed but I can't make heads or tails of what that horseshoe shaped mark might be. Any ideas?

    And many thanks to Trap55 and Hawk Carse for the pistol ID...further image searches show your identification to be spot on.

    PBgLBG.jpg
  • Hawk CarseHawk Carse Member Posts: 4,365 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The first thing I would to with the Winchester is to clean it thoroughly.
    Then I would take it shooting with Short, Long (if you can find any) and Long Rifle. The target will tell you what it started out as.
  • Bill DeShivsBill DeShivs Member Posts: 1,264 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have no idea what the mark is either, but it never was an "R."
    Just try to gently put a .22LR in the chamber by hand and see if it will easily fully seat.
This discussion has been closed.