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Fouling shot question

hadjiihadjii Member Posts: 976 ✭✭
edited June 2019 in Ask the Experts
Ok, so to set up my question, I'd like to put out the following information and scenario.

I'm shooting a Portugal made Winchester 70 sporter in 25-06. It has had exactly 29 rounds put through the barrel. 17 rounds of hornady American whitetail, 3 hand loads, as 3 of the hornady's were misfires, and 9 rounds of blue box federals. Before shooting, the stock was pillar-bedded, as well as the action and barrel channel bedded using pro-bed 2000. Only the first 3 inches of barrel was bedded tight. The remaining part of barrel is floated. The trigger spring was replaced to bring down pull weight to 3ish pounds.

The scope base is a warne, steel base, torqued to 35 lbs and lok-tighted with blue lok-tight. Scope rings are weaver grand slams, lok-tighted to 30 inch lbs., and top of rings to 17 inch lbs. Scope is a Burris 3-10 x 50, USA made, and just returned from Burris after a front lens change and functionality test.

I'm doing a nosler barrel break-in, where the first 10 rounds, the barrel is cleaned every round, followed by cleaning after every 3 rounds for 30 rounds, at which time, according to nosler, the barrel is "broken in".

So, when I shoot a 3 shot group, shot 1 is consistently to the 3:00 position of point of aim by 1.5-3.0 inches. Shots 2 and 3 are .5ish inches apart at point of aim. My question is whether a fouling shot can be causing this, or is there most likely, something else causing this shift? Thank You

Comments

  • babunbabun Member Posts: 11,497
    edited November -1
    Barrel bedded for 3'' too????
    WHY????
    A fouled barrel which you do not really have would not cause a CONSISTENT flyer.

    That's your trouble.
    Free float the barrel.
    Check the action screws for correct torque too.
  • hadjiihadjii Member Posts: 976 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    From the action, 3" forward of that is bedded. From there to the end of barrel is floated. I've done at least 5 ruger 77s and a few Remington 700's, and a couple of savages that way. All will shoot 1/2" to 3/4" groups consistently. I could be wrong, been wrong before, but I'm having a hard time believing that's the problem. Action torque screws? Could be. I'm gonna tweak them a bit tighter, and see what that does.
  • Sam06Sam06 Member Posts: 21,169 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I would say it is a fouling shot problem. Your bed set up is fine.

    Maybe try and smooth down the barrel with some non embedding bore compound. Run a patch of that in the barrel a few times back and forth. Then clean the bore with a copper cleaner like sweets 7.62 or Shooters choice. Oil and dry the barrel then shoot it. You may have to repete this a few times but I have found this will really make a barrel shoot good.

    My concern would be having misfires with Hornaday factory ammo. They need to know about that.
    RLTW

  • hadjiihadjii Member Posts: 976 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Yeah, them misfires really bugged me. Soon as I switched to the federals, problem disappeared. Actually, there was 4 misfires, but finally got one to go off after 3 attempts. Are you talking about something like JB bore paste? I'll try that when I finish the last 11 rounds of federals. After that, I'll start load work-up.
  • rufesnowrufesnow Member Posts: 250 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Seems to me, that the "misfires", with the Hornady ammo. Points to your problem. The primers in the Federal ammo, I have shot over he years. Has always seemed more sensitive. More apt to go off, with light primer strikes.

    IMHO, the problems with the Hornady ammo. Would be caused by a headspace, or firing pin protrusion problem. Causing inconsistent ignition.
  • hadjiihadjii Member Posts: 976 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Rufesnow, the point of impact problem I've described is with the federal ammo. The hornady ammo wasn't consistent at all, and with the misfires, I've just wrote off the hornady ammo as crap. The federal is consistent in that shooting a 3 shot group, shot no 1 is always to the 3:00 position of shots 2 and 3, and shots 2 and 3 have been within 1/2" of each other. I bought these 2 boxes of factory ammo for break-in purposes, and will be working up an accurate load with the brass, using either federal or Winchester primers, ramshot magnum powder, and Sierra 117 grain gameking bullets. On the misfires, looked to me like the firing pin hit the primer the same as the rounds that weren't misfires, so I'm guessing that the primers were somehow, not good.

    All of my groups, this far, have been fired out of a fresh cleaned barrel, using Butch's Bore Shine and Kroil.
  • rufesnowrufesnow Member Posts: 250 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    hadjii wrote:
    Rufesnow, the point of impact problem I've described is with the federal ammo. The hornady ammo wasn't consistent at all, and with the misfires, I've just wrote off the hornady ammo as crap. The federal is consistent in that shooting a 3 shot group, shot no 1 is always to the 3:00 position of shots 2 and 3, and shots 2 and 3 have been within 1/2" of each other. I bought these 2 boxes of factory ammo for break-in purposes, and will be working up an accurate load with the brass, using either federal or Winchester primers, ramshot magnum powder, and Sierra 117 grain gameking bullets. On the misfires, looked to me like the firing pin hit the primer the same as the rounds that weren't misfires, so I'm guessing that the primers were somehow, not good.

    All of my groups, this far, have been fired out of a fresh cleaned barrel, using Butch's Bore Shine and Kroil.

    I know that 25-06, in not the most common and readily available ammo. But I would try to get at least 2 boxes, from different manufacturers. Maybe from one of the on-line sources. To see if your experience, with the Hornady and Federal ammo is replicated.

    I personally don't believe that the Hornady ammo is crap. But the root cause for the inconstant ignition and flyers. Has something to do with the rifle.
  • hadjiihadjii Member Posts: 976 ✭✭
    edited June 2019
    I wonder if I need to take it to a "smith" and have the headspace checked? Come to think of it, I believe there was a couple of primer indentations that were slightly different than the others.

    Actually, just called a real good gunsmith that I use when I'm in the need, and he recommended taking the bolt apart and cleaning it up. He said there's probably some heavy gunk in there from the factory that's giving me the misfires and possibly inconsistent ignition, so guess I'll do that before I shoot another group, and see what happens.
  • charliemeyer007charliemeyer007 Member Posts: 7,346 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    My oiled bore rounds always go high. I try and hunt with at least a one round fowled bore for that reason. I wouldn't worry about groups until the bore is 'ironed' in and and you worked up your best load. When you are neck sizing only with your loads, head space shouldn't be an issue. I like JB's bore paste and Shooters Choice.
  • truthfultruthful Member Posts: 1,704 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Sounds like you are experiencing inconsistent ignition. The very short time between when the sear releases and the charge goes off.
  • Sam06Sam06 Member Posts: 21,169 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    JB bore paste

    Yes and I would dissemble the bolt and give a good cleaning.

    Headspace "should" have been tested at the factory this would be my nest stop after cleaning the bolt and chamber.
    RLTW

This discussion has been closed.