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Help me out here!

kimikimi Member Posts: 44,741 ✭✭✭
edited April 2020 in General Discussion
I'm working on a genealogy situation that involves two men in the same house with the same first and last name.  One man is noted as the son of the head of the house, but the other one's relationship to him is not stated.  In later records a nickname, aka a call name, sometimes appears for one of these men.  In your opinion or experience, are nicknames/call names in such a situation generally used by the older man or the younger one?

(This includes you, too, Don. James) 

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Comments

  • Don McManusDon McManus Member Posts: 23,138 ✭✭✭✭

    If the nickname is junior, he is the son.

    Don

    Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.

    Brad Steele
  • kimikimi Member Posts: 44,741 ✭✭✭

    If the nickname is junior, he is the son.

    Don

    You know, of course, I was expecting the other Don to come up with something like that!!!! :)
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  • toad67toad67 Member Posts: 11,836 ✭✭✭✭
    What are the ages of the two? Seems that nicknames aren't quite as common today as they were a few years back.. 
  • kimikimi Member Posts: 44,741 ✭✭✭
    toad67 said:
    What are the ages of the two? Seems that nicknames aren't quite as common today as they were a few years back.. 
    Thanks for the question, toad.
    The exact age of these men are unknown, however, they were both men prior to the Revolutionary War.

    In my experience, I had an Uncle who was called Will, and he had a son with the same first name as his, which was Willie.
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  • TRAP55TRAP55 Member Posts: 8,277 ✭✭✭
    Kimi, what is the nickname? Sometimes that can tell you by itself. Nicknames are generally given to the Jr, to differentiate from the Sr.
    My Dad's side is all from a Welsh community that settled in Idaho back in the 1800's. So many with the same first and last names, everybody has a nickname! My Dad was the first "Dave" to move away to Calif, so he is "Calif Dave". Even though I was born in Calif. I still got a nickname. I'm "Young Calif Dave", which always makes me laugh when I'm back there, cause most of them calling me that, I have 30yrs at least, on them!
  • Ditch-RunnerDitch-Runner Member Posts: 22,367 ✭✭✭✭
     nick names are a difficult thing to guess as  every one knows  god luck on your quest
     I had a couple when younger some have followed me all thru life . 
    my wife's family  including my wife ,, good gosh every one , man , woman and child has a nick name no where close to there  real name  and bestowed on them as kids  from other family members  some I never knew there real name .  

  • Butchdog2Butchdog2 Member Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭✭
    Not far from Ken's neck of the woods, in TN, every body has a nick name, Bubba, Bugger, Punk, Pug Nose, White Rat, Rabbit, Strawberry, Dead eye, Mouse, Squeaky, Red Pig, Snowball, Jed, Doad, Onie, Roast, Dump, Squat, and on and on.
  • chmechme Member Posts: 1,304 ✭✭✭✭
    Another possibility- grandfather/ grandson.  Not uncommon to give a grandson the first name of one grandad, middle name of the other.  And a nickname could be for either one.  As the man said- in some parts of the country, EVERYBODY has a nickname.  Of course, in the big cities they don't call them nicknames.  They call them an "alias".  
  • KenK/84BravoKenK/84Bravo Member Posts: 9,051 ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2020

    Yep.

    I remember "Pug." (Bull necked football player.) Couple years ahead of me. Scared of him, till I worked the night shift at a tobacco warehouse with him. Made a good gun trade, for both of us.

    Many others.

    Extreme NE TN/W NC ya'll. 😁

  • kimikimi Member Posts: 44,741 ✭✭✭
    edited May 2020

    TRAP, this particular nickname is also Will, but a shortened version of William. The evidence that surrounds this man also suggests that he is the older of the two Williams, but what you mention about the younger person getting the nickname makes a lot of sense, too.

    One thought that comes to my mind right now is that should a father, for example, be known by a shortened version of his given name, then a son is born and named after his father would be called by his full first name.

    In your family, the name Dave would not be short for David, would it?

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  • TRAP55TRAP55 Member Posts: 8,277 ✭✭✭
    Ah, I see the confusion, and know it well! I think the only time I was called David, is when I heard it just ahead of my middle and last name, and coming from my Mom. If there was an escape route, it was a pre warning to run like hell over to grandpa's house. Only way I survived my childhood. :)
  • BrookwoodBrookwood Member, Moderator Posts: 11,448 ******
    All the possibilities are nearly endless doing heritage research kimi!    I have in my own family a situation where two of my brothers (half) have the same name.  Both "John's" from previous marriages of my parents.

    The older John spells his name "Jon" and the younger "John".   Both were born in the 40's and to this day the family always calls Jon; Jonny Hall and John:  Johnny Mike.    Mike is John's middle name.  I got more of a kick out of that old TV show "Newhart" where the line; this is my brother Daryl and my other brother Daryl. :D 
    I post this just to show how not all of the same family names pertain to just father\son\grandparent situations.   
     
  • kimikimi Member Posts: 44,741 ✭✭✭
    TRAP55 said:
    Ah, I see the confusion, and know it well! I think the only time I was called David, is when I heard it just ahead of my middle and last name, and coming from my Mom. If there was an escape route, it was a pre warning to run like hell over to grandpa's house. Only way I survived my childhood. :)
     :D Funny!  Sometimes it's not only what's in a name, but how someone says it!!! :smile:
    The way your nickname evolved makes a lot of sense. 
    It was your response that helped me to start thinking about more possibilities about nicknames that are similar to shortened versions of given names, rather than those such as Pug, Punk, Pea, or Rooster, etc.  (My father in his childhood was known as Pea Jake or Pea, and one old time deer hunter always called me Rooster.)  It got me to thinking about my grandson whom the family calls JW...since our son always went by his full first name.
    Thank you, TRAP!

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  • kimikimi Member Posts: 44,741 ✭✭✭
    Brookwood said:
    All the possibilities are nearly endless doing heritage research kimi!    I have in my own family a situation where two of my brothers (half) have the same name.  Both "John's" from previous marriages of my parents.

    The older John spells his name "Jon" and the younger "John".   Both were born in the 40's and to this day the family always calls Jon; Jonny Hall and John:  Johnny Mike.    Mike is John's middle name.  I got more of a kick out of that old TV show "Newhart" where the line; this is my brother Daryl and my other brother Daryl. :D 
    I post this just to show how not all of the same family names pertain to just father\son\grandparent situations.   
     
    Thanks for the response, Brookwood.  This type situation is very similar to the one I am trying to solve.  Do you mind if I ask if they have the same surname?  And, if they do, was either parent of Germanic descent?
    One of my aunts married a Punk Hall!  :)
    What's next?
  • BrookwoodBrookwood Member, Moderator Posts: 11,448 ******
    edited May 2020
    kimi said:
    Brookwood said:
    All the possibilities are nearly endless doing heritage research kimi!    I have in my own family a situation where two of my brothers (half) have the same name.  Both "John's" from previous marriages of my parents.

    The older John spells his name "Jon" and the younger "John".   Both were born in the 40's and to this day the family always calls Jon; Jonny Hall and John:  Johnny Mike.    Mike is John's middle name.  I got more of a kick out of that old TV show "Newhart" where the line; this is my brother Daryl and my other brother Daryl. :D 
    I post this just to show how not all of the same family names pertain to just father\son\grandparent situations.   
     
    Thanks for the response, Brookwood.  This type situation is very similar to the one I am trying to solve.  Do you mind if I ask if they have the same surname?  And, if they do, was either parent of Germanic descent?
    One of my aunts married a Punk Hall!  :)

    Yes kimi to both questions.  My dad adopted moms son John giving him his Hall surname.  My dads mother (my grandmother was of direct German descent). Her maiden name was Schmitt.

    Hall seems to compete with Smith these days for numbers of offspring!   The phone books are proof of this these days!    

    On a side note, it is very hard to trace my Hall family side and I have only been able to go back to my gg grandfather born in England, moved here to the states and buried in Indiana.  His son, my g grandfather was a Civil War Vet on the Union side.  He was granted land here in northern lower Michigan where my family mostly remains.

    On my moms side I can go back nearly to the Mayflower!   

  • TRAP55TRAP55 Member Posts: 8,277 ✭✭✭
    Kimi, genealogy research can turn up some surprises, some good, some bad depending on how you look at it.
    One of my great grandfathers was a Mormon, and had 3 wives. We knew who two of them were, but not the third one he married after the first one died. My BIL was checking some new records in the Mormon archives, and found the 3rd ones name. Her maiden last name isn't a common one in that area, and I only know one person there with that last name. Called him to check, and yep, it was CritterGetter's great aunt! We agreed, Clouder had something to do with it, just so he could have the last laugh.
  • Bubba Jr.Bubba Jr. Member Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭✭
    Try going to "Find a grave.com" They have gravestones, and names and dates from way back. My wife uses it all the time for her genealogy research.
    Joe
  • kimikimi Member Posts: 44,741 ✭✭✭
    Brookwood said:
    kimi said:
    Brookwood said:
    All the possibilities are nearly endless doing heritage research kimi!    I have in my own family a situation where two of my brothers (half) have the same name.  Both "John's" from previous marriages of my parents.

    The older John spells his name "Jon" and the younger "John".   Both were born in the 40's and to this day the family always calls Jon; Jonny Hall and John:  Johnny Mike.    Mike is John's middle name.  I got more of a kick out of that old TV show "Newhart" where the line; this is my brother Daryl and my other brother Daryl. :D 
    I post this just to show how not all of the same family names pertain to just father\son\grandparent situations.   
     
    Thanks for the response, Brookwood.  This type situation is very similar to the one I am trying to solve.  Do you mind if I ask if they have the same surname?  And, if they do, was either parent of Germanic descent?
    One of my aunts married a Punk Hall!  :)

    Yes kimi to both questions.  My dad adopted moms son John giving him his Hall surname.  My dads mother (my grandmother was of direct German descent). Her maiden name was Schmitt.

    Hall seems to compete with Smith these days for numbers of offspring!   The phone books are proof of this these days!    

    On a side note, it is very hard to trace my Hall family side and I have only been able to go back to my gg grandfather born in England, moved here to the states and buried in Indiana.  His son, my g grandfather was a Civil War Vet on the Union side.  He was granted land here in northern lower Michigan where my family mostly remains.

    On my moms side I can go back nearly to the Mayflower!   

    Thanks for information.
    What's next?
  • kimikimi Member Posts: 44,741 ✭✭✭
    TRAP55 said:
    Kimi, genealogy research can turn up some surprises, some good, some bad depending on how you look at it.
    One of my great grandfathers was a Mormon, and had 3 wives. We knew who two of them were, but not the third one he married after the first one died. My BIL was checking some new records in the Mormon archives, and found the 3rd ones name. Her maiden last name isn't a common one in that area, and I only know one person there with that last name. Called him to check, and yep, it was CritterGetter's great aunt! We agreed, Clouder had something to do with it, just so he could have the last laugh.
    Good one!!!
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  • kimikimi Member Posts: 44,741 ✭✭✭
    Bubba Jr. said:
    Try going to "Find a grave.com" They have gravestones, and names and dates from way back. My wife uses it all the time for her genealogy research.
    Joe
    I use the site frequently for one reason or another.  The trouble with a lot of the old headstones in many old cemeteries is that they weathered away.
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