Small Engine Advice

buddyb

I bought a zero turn with a bad engine,18 HP Kohler Courage owner ran it out of oil.From what I gather the Kohler Courage engines were pretty bad to begin with.I am going to find a used engine to replace it with.What engines are good and which ones to stay away from?

redneckandy

Cry once and get a Honda. Pricey but worth it.

Junkballer

I've got a 18 H.P B&S model # 422707 vertical shaft engine on a mower bought in 1988, I run the dog crap out of it somewhere @ 70/80 hrs per year, only problem is I have to rebuild/replace the fuel pump every year or so (less than $10 kit). Still running fairly strong but getting notably weaker each year.

JimmyJack

Check out Kawasaki.   I run four mowers and have the best luck with their two cyl. model. Beats the snot out of the Kohler and Briggs.  Small engine repair man said they are all pretty good when I researched engines for a wood splitter.  He said they are all clones as far as the foreign ones and he has good luck with most of them.  no problems for his finding parts I guess.  Ive only got about 400 hours on most of them,  and Ill turn them over in a year or so.

Knifecollector

I bought a zero turn with a blown Kohler Courage engine. I replaced it with a new Briggs + Stratton. 

jimdeere

another vote for Kawasaki. My Gravely zero turn has been indestructible.

truthful

Never had a problem with a Briggs & Stratton. Change the oil at least once a year, and new spark plugs every now and then. They just keep going and going.

Beeramid

They say Kohler named it courage (single), because that's what it takes to buy one. They tend to leak from the valve cover, and easy oil drain. They also have an issue with the top cover bolts backing out, you won't notice unless the cowling is removed, or the bolt makes it into the flywheel which leads to a cracked block.

I'd probably vote for Honda, or kawasaki in no particular order.

Nanuq907

Why stay with a small engine? Go for the gusto.

gjshaw

They are a good place to start looking for a replacement motor.

https://m.northerntool.com/shop/tools/category_engines

bpost

Harbor freight.  Use the money saved for beer.

hillbille

if you want to stay real cheap look for used riding mower with bad transmission, that is the first thing to go in the new hydrostatic box store mowers usually motors are good, should get one for few hundred  allready broke in........

Smitty500mag

In my opinion Honda makes great motorcycles but their lawn equipment sucks.

mogley98

Best thing with any brand NO ETHANOL

Beeramid

Flying Clay Disk said:

mogley98 said:

Best thing with any brand NO ETHANOL

IF  you can find it!  I have to drive almost `100 miles for the nearest no ethanol fuel.  Colorado Commies try to make that stuff REAL scarce!

I've read that most premium gas is ethanol free, not sure how to confirm it, maybe ask the fuel truck driver. Some people run 100LL avgas in small engines.

bpost

Beeramid said:

Flying Clay Disk said:

mogley98 said:

Best thing with any brand NO ETHANOL

IF  you can find it!  I have to drive almost `100 miles for the nearest no ethanol fuel.  Colorado Commies try to make that stuff REAL scarce!

I've read that most premium gas is ethanol free, not sure how to confirm it, maybe ask the fuel truck driver. Some people run 100LL avgas in small engines.

Unfortunately BIG BROTHER the feds MANDATE auto gas have 10% ethanol.  SO even super premium has it.  MOST but not all racing fuel is ethanol free and you are spot on about the 100LL sold at airports.  Your small engine will NEVER run so good as when feeding it Aviation Gasoline.  It is a unique boutique very pure fuel that makes engines happy.  Make darn sure you do not have O2 sensors, the lead will screw them up.  My Honda Pioneer 500 has O2 sensors so it only get Ethanol free fuel from a local Sunoco, the distributor for it in this area.

BobJudy

Flying Clay Disk said:

Smitty500mag said:

In my opinion Honda makes great motorcycles but their lawn equipment sucks.

Depends which ones you get.   If you get a Honda from the box stores, I agree...not good.

If you get a Honda from a Honda commercial equipment dealer they're the best mowers you'll ever get.

A lot of people get confused when they see the words "Commercial" stamped on the ones at the box stores.  They're not the same as the genuine ones.  I'm not even 100% sure they have Honda motors in them at all or are even built by Honda.  Pretty much the same way with all the big names at the box stores, just not same as the real deal.

While the big box stores usually sell the lower priced line of a brand name, it is still the same maker. Usually the rumor is fed to us by specialty dealers to justify the higher prices they charge. A good dealer will do warranty work no matter where you bought the item. A not so good dealer thumbs his nose at you because  he wasn't able to gouge you on the purchase price. We have a couple of good dealers locally that have told me a Deere is a Deere and a Stihl is a Stihl no matter who you buy it from. Bob

SW0320

redneckandy said:

Cry once and get a Honda. Pricey but worth it.

I agree.  I have Honda generators for my concession business and we run them a lot and they have to be reliable.  Change the oil and put treatment in the gas and never have had a problem.

Beeramid

bpost said:

Beeramid said:

Flying Clay Disk said:

mogley98 said:

Best thing with any brand NO ETHANOL

IF  you can find it!  I have to drive almost `100 miles for the nearest no ethanol fuel.  Colorado Commies try to make that stuff REAL scarce!

I've read that most premium gas is ethanol free, not sure how to confirm it, maybe ask the fuel truck driver. Some people run 100LL avgas in small engines.

Unfortunately BIG BROTHER the feds MANDATE auto gas have 10% ethanol.  SO even super premium has it.  MOST but not all racing fuel is ethanol free and you are spot on about the 100LL sold at airports.  Your small engine will NEVER run so good as when feeding it Aviation Gasoline.  It is a unique boutique very pure fuel that makes engines happy.  Make darn sure you do not have O2 sensors, the lead will screw them up.  My Honda Pioneer 500 has O2 sensors so it only get Ethanol free fuel from a local Sunoco, the distributor for it in this area.

I read that on Bob is the oil guy, but was skeptical. The station I buy it from started out with a lone pump of ethanol free marine gas, and recently switch to ethanol free in all grades. Mowers get marine gas, while weedeater, and blower get 93 with no ethanol. 

BobJudy

Flying Clay Disk said:

@BobJudy - I think you may have misunderstood, and I was afraid of this.

I wasn't referring to buying something from a dedicated dealer versus a box store.  What I was referring to  was buying commercial (professional) lawn care equipment versus consumer grade stuff.  Honda in particular has confused this issue, but they're not alone.  I will try to explain...

When I was in college I worked for a guy who had a lawn service.  He ran Toro's and Honda's, and let me tell you this stuff was top of the line bulletproof stuff!  But it was all commercial grade.  The word 'commercial' is key here.  Back then Honda commercial grade stuff was all silver (no red).  Like a commercial vacuum cleaner used in hotels, you could get parts for every single thing on them.  Everything was accessible, and no details were left out.  The differences from the Honda stuff you see (even at a "Honda" dealer) were stunning.  They were completely different.  Word started to get out that the really good Honda mowers were silver, so Honda started introducing their consumer grade mowers (which are nothing like the commercial grade ones) with a silver deck, a red hood and the words "commercial" stamped on them.  The professional grade Honda stuff had their own dedicated dealers (they didn't sell motorcycles, or anything else branded Honda, just professional lawn care stuff) and they wouldn't touch anything with red on it, not because they were being snobs, but because it was completely different (i.e. no parts, different parts, different training, different factories, everything). 

The professional grade stuff was about 3x the cost of the consumer grade stuff, but it was ultra-durable, dependable and easily fixable...unlike the consumer grade stuff.  Toro had similar issues.  They made their name in the professional industry (golf courses, football, baseball and soccer fields, etc.), but they also sold consumer grade stuff at outlets.  Like Honda, the Toro consumer grade equipment was nothing like the commercial grade stuff.  The difference was Honda didn't sell their consumer grade stuff at box stores and anchor chain stores (like Sears, etc.), but Toro did because Lawn Boy was eating up some of their market share.  So...Honda introduced the silver and red "Commercial" (marked) mowers to the box stores so they could compete with Toro and others in the consumer market.  Hopefully this explains what I was trying to communicate better.

Interestingly, as some here may know, many many moons ago I worked in radio.  For extra money we used to get contracted out to do things which were never broadcast over the airwaves, but used for other purposes.  One year I got hired by Toro to do voice work for all of their set-up and operational manuals, geared primarily towards the professional golf and grounds maintenance sector for golf courses across the country.  It was months and months of reading page after page of manuals covering everything from un-crating the equipment, to assembly (by licensed Toro mechanics, which most golf courses have) and operation by the grounds maintenance crews.  Heh, I learned more about Toro professional lawn care equipment in the span of a year than I ever cared or wanted to know!  I can't imagine how exquisitely BORING it must have been to have to sit in a classroom and listen to all that, but I produced like 300 hour-long volumes of tapes (to be used in conjunction with overhead projectors).

I guess I didn't explain myself very well either. I know that some manufacture have more than one line of products to take care of both professional and casual users. They can sell a 5 or 10 thousand dollar mower with tougher engineering specs to the pros and a 2 thousand dollar mower to the guy that only mows a corner city lot. But my point was sort of directed to your comment about the cheaper Hondas might not be built by them. In my area we have some dealers that won't service anything unless it was bought from them. There are one or two that sell the full line, from the super tough and pricy commercial to the same as you can get at Home Depot or Lowes. The last time I was in a Deere dealer I was told if it said John Deere on the machine then it was built in a Deere factory, no matter where it was purchased. Is it the same for Honda? I am not sure but they would lose a lot of their reputation if they put their name on sub par products. There have been a lot of rumors, including on here, that some brand names sold at the big box stores are in reality re-badged MTDs or some other cheaper makers products. A lot of those rumors are nothing but total bunk. Most probably started by the dealer who wants to sell you the same product for 25% more. As far as I know, if you buy a Honda, Husqvarna or Deere then that machine was built by the company whos' name is on the hood. So I was just expanding on your post about manufacturers building different lines for different users. The 2 thousand dollar mower may last that corner lot guy 20 years but it might not last a month for the lawn care business that uses them on a constant basis. Bob

buddyb

Found a John Deere LX288 with a bad transmission.The Engine is one of the very good Briggs Vanguard 18 HP.This engine even has an oil cooler.Took the carb apart and let the ultrasonic cleaner do its magic.Engine started and ran like a top.Took about a day and a half to do the transplant with figuring out the wiring,a little welding to make the exhaust fit but now son number 2 has a great running zero turn for about 200 bucks and a little time.I took the shroud off the blown Kohler Courage that came on the zero turn and mice had built a huge nest under the shroud all through the cylinder and cooling fins.Probably the previous owner got it out in the spring to cut grass and with the mouse nest blocking the air across the cylinder,the engine ran hot and self destructed.