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Shipping Blackpowder revolver?

XP100XP100 Member Posts: 413 ✭✭
Can a BP revolver be shipped from Mass/, to Fl without going thru an FFL holder?  I am not sure about Mass. regs.  Thanks

Comments

  • nononsensenononsense Member, Moderator Posts: 10,575 ******
    Black powder firearms

    From the ATF:
    1. Can a person prohibited by law from possessing a firearm acquire and use a black powder muzzle loading firearm?
    The Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA) prohibits felons and certain other persons from possessing or receiving firearms and ammunition (“prohibited persons”). These categories can be found at 18 U.S.C. § 922(g) and (n) in http://atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf. However, Federal law does not prohibit these persons from possessing or receiving an antique firearm. The term “antique firearm” means any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898. The definition includes any replica of an antique firearm if it is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or uses rimfire or conventional centerfire ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States, and which is not readily available in ordinary channels of commercial trade. Further, any muzzle loading rifle, shotgun, or pistol which is designed to use black powder or black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition, is an “antique firearm” unless it (1) incorporates a firearm frame or receiver; (2) is a firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading weapon; or (3) is a muzzle loading weapon which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breech block, or any combination thereof. See 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(3), (a)(16). Thus, a muzzle loading weapon that meets the definition of an “antique firearm” is not a firearm and may lawfully be received and possessed by a prohibited person under the GCA. In addition, the GCA defines the term “ammunition” to mean “ammunition or cartridge cases, primers, bullets, or propellant powder designed for use in any firearm.” Because an “antique firearm” is not a “firearm,” it would is lawful for a prohibited person to receive or possess black powder designed for use in an “antique firearm.” Also, the Federal explosives laws do not make it unlawful for a prohibited person to acquire and possess black powder in quantities not exceeding fifty pounds if it is intended to be used solely for sporting, recreational, or cultural purposes in “antique firearms.” See 18 U.S.C. § 845(a)(5) By contrast, a prohibited person may not receive or possess black powder firearms that can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breech block, or any combination thereof. ATF has classified certain muzzle loading models as firearms. All of these models incorporate the frame or receiver of a firearm that is capable of accepting barrels designed to fire conventional rimfire or centerfire fixed ammunition. These muzzle loading models do not meet the definition of “antique firearm” as that term is defined in 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(16), and are “firearms” as defined in 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(3). Furthermore, as firearms, these and similar models, regardless of the barrel installed on the firearm or provided with the firearm, are subject to all provisions of the GCA. Persons who purchase these firearms from licensed dealers are required to fill out a Firearms Transaction Record, ATF Form 4473, and are subject to a National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) check. Felons and other prohibited persons may not lawfully receive or possess these firearms or ammunition. The following is a list of weapons that load from the muzzle and are classified as firearms, not antiques, under the GCA, because they incorporate the frame or receiver of a firearm:
    •Savage Model 10ML (early, 1st version)
    •Mossberg 500 shotgun with muzzle loading barrel •Remington 870 shotgun with muzzle loading barrel
    •Mauser 98 rifle with muzzle loading barrel
    •SKS rifle with muzzle loading barrel
    •PB sM10 pistol with muzzle loading barrel
    •H&R/New England Firearm Huntsman
    •Thompson Center Encore/Contender
    •Rossi .50 muzzle loading rifle
    This list is not complete and frequently changes. There may be other muzzle loaders also classified as firearms. As noted, any muzzle loading weapon that is built on a firearm frame or receiver falls within the definition of a firearm provided in 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(3). Finally, even though a prohibited person may lawfully possess an antique firearm under Federal law, State or local law may classify such weapons as “firearms” subject to regulation. Any person considering acquiring a black powder weapon should contact his or her State Attorney General’s Office to inquire about the laws and possible State or local restrictions. A list of State Attorney General contact numbers may be found at www.naag.org.


  • nmyersnmyers Member Posts: 16,312 ✭✭✭
    Hmmm, then it appears that the Butler black powder derringer is now considered to be a "firearm":
    Butler made the No 4 .22 short derringers for Colt, as well as under the Butler name.
    Neal

  • chmechme Member Posts: 480 ✭✭✭
    To answer your question- under Federal law a ball and cap revolver is not a firearm- legally it is an ANTIQUE firearm, even if made this morning.  Caplock that uses loose powder and shot.   It can be shipped directly to an adult buyer in Florida.  NJ considers them firearms under state law, Florida does not. 
  • nononsensenononsense Member, Moderator Posts: 10,575 ******
    The question is answered in the information I posted directly from the ATF. This is not just some simple loose interpretation of the law and it gives the variations of what is NOT acceptable.

    And by the way, 'loose powder' must specify black powder especially now that we have modern muzzle loaders which use loose 'smokeless' powder. The devil is in the details. The law doesn't care what you think, it's how it's written.

    Best.

  • XP100XP100 Member Posts: 413 ✭✭
    Thanks, I know I can receive it in Fl. but do not know the Mass. rules. If from FFL to FFL and overnight shipping it will add 100.00+ to the cost
  • JunkballerJunkballer Member Posts: 7,930 ✭✭✭
    I've purchased 2 BP's on here, a 1868 Navy pistol and a Hawken rifle, one came from Tenn. the other from Indiana, both came straight to my door, no fuss, no hassle, no paperwork.  ;)
  • nmyersnmyers Member Posts: 16,312 ✭✭✭
    If you are worried, download The Book: 
    ATF is pleased to provide you with the 34th Edition of State Laws and Published Ordinances - Firearms (ATF P 5300.5). These publications will help you comply with federal and state firearms laws and, specifically, with the Gun Control Act of 1968.
    If you want to know if a black powder handgun can legally be mailed through the USPS, look it up on the USPS website.
    Neal

  • KenK/84BravoKenK/84Bravo Member Posts: 7,384 ✭✭✭✭

    When I bought my BP pistol from Cabela's, it came straight to my house. (Signature Required.)

    Extreme NE TN/W NC ya'll. 😁

  • XP100XP100 Member Posts: 413 ✭✭
    nmyers said:
    If you are worried, download The Book: 
    ATF is pleased to provide you with the 34th Edition of State Laws and Published Ordinances - Firearms (ATF P 5300.5). These publications will help you comply with federal and state firearms laws and, specifically, with the Gun Control Act of 1968.
    If you want to know if a black powder handgun can legally be mailed through the USPS, look it up on the USPS website.
    Neal

    I am not worried. The seller says it has to go from FFL to FFL and I informed him this was incorrect. He also stated that all the seminars he has attended say you can not ship a handgun thru USPS which is correct unless you are an FFL holder. I told him BP revolvers are not considered a firearm.  

    I had my FFL for nearly 17 yrs. and know most of the rules. 
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