In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.
longhunter youre preaching to the chior. everyone here knows what is supposed to be. it aint and the pblic is satisfied and unwilling to rock the boat so we can say things are bad till were blue and its not going to change this.
you gunphreak and even i can explain what is supposed to be done but all you need to do is look at the supreme court to understand where we really are now. they will allow the states to whittle away what we may or may not have and the federal govt to restrict in the name of saving the children. when there are conflicts in the federal appelate system they will leave it so that a man in california would go to jail for the same crime a man in texas would go free.anything to avoid having to explain that the 2nd amndt means what it says.
so feel free to explain what should could and aught to be and i will tell you about the facts on the ground.
they will not take them away, someone might ask for payment and get a sympathetic judge on that count. they will not allow you to sell them, transfer them , or give them to your heirs. you will only be able to buy a limited amount of ammunition and that will be the expensive part,you will only be able to purchase ammo for registered guns, and they will restrict the purchases one by one, this gun is black, this one is too weak, this one is to big, this one is a saturday night special,this ammo is not sporting. you get the picture here.
as long as the american public goes along with it there will be no challenges accepted and the courts and legislatures will have no reason to bother with us.
Had enough of your constitutional rights being violated? Had enough of police brutality? It's time to unite and take a stand against tyranny. We don't have to take it any more. Legislation isn't going to change things until the people are in power. Gen. Tommy Franks just said that our constitution would be put aside in favor of a military government (dictatorship) in the event the US is attacked by any kind of weapon of mass destruction. Just like 9/11 was a pretext to the war in Iraq so also will a WMD strike in the US be a pretext to complete government control over the people. Zero rights, folks. Your guns will be confiscated. No freedom of the press or speech. No freedom to assemble. Nothing. Martial Law will be imposed. Stay inside after curfew or get shot. Have to bring in the Blue Helmets (UN) though because all our forces, including our National Guard will be fighting overseas. Yes, foreign troops will be in control and there won't be a thing you can do about it because you wouldn't have had any guns and you weren't organized and prepared for that day. If we don't stand up now we won't be able to stand up then. I have come up with a plan that will ensure that our constitutional rights are respected and to stand up against all forms of tyranny and governmental abuse. It's called the Constitutional Rights Enforcement & Support Team (C.R.E.S.T.) It will work and it will be a force to be reckoned with but it is up to you to make it happen. Join today and get in on the ground level. This isn't my group. It is your group. All decisions in the group are ultimately up to the members. The members will nominate and elect 12 council members after the first 500 members have joined and after one month so we will have time to become aquainted with each other. The C.R.E.S.T. is still in the developement stage your imput and our collective brainstorming will evolve it into the most democratic force for good that this country has ever seen. We will keep our constitutional rights and we will get those back that have been stripped from us. You can join the group by simply joining thecrest Yahoo group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/thecrest . Let's unite and protect our rights and one another.
Below is a description (more of a sketch) of the group. If you agee with the principle of it and want to be a part of it's developement, join today. Don't join if you are not serious about confronting the thug enforcers of illegal laws with force of arms (weapons).
The purpose of The Constitutional Rights Enforcement & Support Team (CREST) is to unite American patriots and to force the usurpers of our constitution to uphold and honor our constitutional rights. You become an official member of the Constitutional Rights Enforcement & Support Team 24 hours after joining the CREST Yahoo group. This will give people time to look around and make a decision of whether or not to join without obligating themselves. If you do not or at any time no longer wish to be be a member of the Constitutional Rights Enforcement & Support Team you simply leave the CREST Yahoo group and you are free from all obligations and the C.R.E.S.T. is free from our obligation to defend you. As long as you are in the C.R.E.S.T. you are assumed to be pledged to support other members with force of arms if their constitutional rights are being violated after the C.R.E.S.T. reaches 50,000 members (not CREST Yahoo group membership). Spies and traitors will be treated as such after our constitutional rights and liberties have been restored. The council will have the right to boot out those they think are troublemakers or just spectators. This is a team effort. "All for one and one for all" applies for members of this group. If your constitutional rights are being violated the whole team will come to your defense. Hopefully this team will become the largest team in the United States and will be a key factor in eliminating tyranny and restoring our constitution and liberty as our founding fathers intended them to be. The C.R.E.S.T. will be to the usurpers of our constitutional rights what the Neighboorhood Watch Program is to the other more obvious criminals. Hopefully every neighborhood will be recruited into the C.R.E.S.T. and we will all come to each others aid when our rights are being violated under the color of law. When the usurpers see a whole neighboorhod with C.R.E.S.T. warning signs on their property they will think twice about trying to take it away or trying to force you to do or not do something that is against your constitutional rights. The jails and prisons are full of people who are there for just exercising their constitutional rights. We're going to change that. In fact, we're going to reverse that. Judges, politicians and law makers that are ignoring and taking away our constitutional rights are hereby given notice that they are going to jail for their treason.
The C.R.E.S.T. will rise up against police brutality and give the police or the national guard a taste of their own medicine if they tread on the civilian population and they will be given the same measure that they dish out. The team will be on stand by at every protest and will defend protestors against police brutality whether or not they are C.R.E.S.T. members.
Many people who join this group will die, be wounded or jailed. Some of you may be forced to shoot some constitutional rights usurpers who were "just doing their job" and some of them will have families. War has been declared on our constitution and we will defend our rights. If you don't have the courage or stomach for it please do not join the group. All we are doing now is recruiting. We are the patriots. We are not the terrorists. Please don't conspire and make threats in this group. We are not anti-government. We are anti-corruption in government and anti-tyrannists. We are only on the defensive and will not go on the offensive unless attacked. We will defend our constitution, which includes our rights, against all enemies both foreign and domestic. We have the right to keep and bear arms and that doesn't mean wear sleeveless t-shirts. We, the people, can have any weapon that it takes to throw off tyranny. Get all the weapons you can and hide them. (Not on your property) If another country takes over America we may be able to get it back again. If America turns into a military dictatorship we may be able to take it back agaim. Prepare to fight or prepare to have no rights. We need to act now. "The blue helmets are coming! The blue helmets are coming!"
If you haven't seen the documentary "Road to Tyranny" please do so now and then you will know why we need the Constitutional Rights Enforcement and Support Team. http://911.mazesoftware.com
Many are familiar with Rick Stanley's 2nd American Revolution Militia Mutal Defense Pact. www.stanley2002.org. The CREST will be pretty much the same in principle as his group but the organizational and leadership structure will be different. At the time I am starting this group Rick is in Jail for exercising his 2nd ammendment right to keep and bear arms. I believe his pact idea is a great one. The C.R.E.S.T. will not be stopped unless everyone in it has been jailed or taken out because if one council member is jailed or taken out a new one will immediately be temporarily elected until the other is free to assume his/her position again and there hopefully will be some freeing going on. Recruiting and plans will continue as usual.
The C.R.E.S.T is totally democratic but will have a council of 12 members to begin with who will investigate thoroughly and make the decision of whether or not a team member's constitutional rights are being violated and to call the rest of the team to his/her defense. The council will be selected by nomination by group members and then voting by the poll after team membership reaches 500. The 12 shall remain in office indefinitely unless they resign or have been proven to be incompetent or otherwise unfit to to make correct decisions. When the group reaches 1,000 members there will be another 12 council members added for a total of 24 and another 12 for each additional 1,000 members until the team has a total of 72 council members. There will be no defensive actions taken until we have 50,000 members, which is one thousand per state. When a state reaches 2,000 members it will become active and have it's own council of 24 who will make the decisions for that state. Eventually each state will have their own C.R.E.S.T. team with 72 council members yet each state C.R.E.S.T. team wil be united with the others and will come to their aid if extra enforcement is needed. No one may be banned from the group except by a poll 2/3 majority vote by the council. This council decision may be overruled by way of a poll by the team members if the poll vote is at least 2 to 1 in opposition to the decision of the council. The rights to freedom of the press and freedom of speech and freedom to assemble are in force in this group. Posts will not be filtered by a moderator before posting but please refrain from flaming, slandering people or spam. Please also do not post any information regarding bomb making materials etc. on this site. I accept no responsibilities for any posts because I will not be monitoring them at all times.
I will be the temporary monitor of the group but will abide by council decisions. As the group grows we will obviously need our own website and regional (state) sites much like Indymedia.org.
Please open another yahoo account and get another yahoo user ID for this group so no one will know who you are except if you volunteer to tell them through another message service. We need to protect our anonymity as our forefathers did. If you would like to use your own identity please feel free to do so at your own risk. Only the council members will be given your real names and addresses and then only after you have requested defensive support from the team. The council members will need to know your email addresses in order to contact you when a call to action is pending.
Each and every member is also an advisor and your imput and suggestions are always welcome. Each member should also try to organize in his community and as secretly as posssible so our Yahoo group will just be the tip of the iceberg. You will be responsible for finding leaders who will provide knowledge and training and plan for the defensive action in your community. They must all abide by council decisions and not act alone. The main forces of the C.R.E.S.T. will join your position as soon as possible if you or a member in your neighborhood C.R.E.S.T. is being attacked or having their rights violated. Your leaders, in coordination with other neighborhood C.R.E.S.T. leaders, should be ready and able to lead and direct as many members that arrive for your defence, which could be thousands.
The C.R.E.S.T. is open to all true american patriots regardless of sex, race, color, creed, religion or politcal party. There are no dues and all offices are voluntary. The Forum is mainly for communication between team members so please do not post more than two separate news articles each per day. If you have more news put links to them inside your message so as not to crowd the board.
Nominate and elect your council wisely. This is your group and the majority rules. I have faith in the American people to make the right decisions. Let this group be a model of what America can be. The C.R.E.S.T. is in the birth and experimental stage now and after a council has been elected the council and team members have the right to modify it in anyway that they determine would make it better effective.
Long live America! Long Live our Constitution! Long live liberty!
quote:Originally posted by 2gun
longhunter youre preaching to the chior. everyone here knows what is supposed to be. it aint and the pblic is satisfied and unwilling to rock the boat so we can say things are bad till were blue and its not going to change this.
you gunphreak and even i can explain what is supposed to be done but all you need to do is look at the supreme court to understand where we really are now. they will allow the states to whittle away what we may or may not have and the federal govt to restrict in the name of saving the children. when there are conflicts in the federal appelate system they will leave it so that a man in california would go to jail for the same crime a man in texas would go free.anything to avoid having to explain that the 2nd amndt means what it says.
so feel free to explain what should could and aught to be and i will tell you about the facts on the ground.
they will not take them away, someone might ask for payment and get a sympathetic judge on that count. they will not allow you to sell them, transfer them , or give them to your heirs. you will only be able to buy a limited amount of ammunition and that will be the expensive part,you will only be able to purchase ammo for registered guns, and they will restrict the purchases one by one, this gun is black, this one is too weak, this one is to big, this one is a saturday night special,this ammo is not sporting. you get the picture here.
as long as the american public goes along with it there will be no challenges accepted and the courts and legislatures will have no reason to bother with us.
happiness is a warm gun, preferably preban
I do get the pic.....I do ,and I agree ,however.I continue to preach in the hope that someone else may read,someone that may not allready understand.Someone who may become enlightened in some way to our cause.I can't just give up hope altogether,I know IF it ever comes down we will be the few.....I just hope to add a few more.....L.H.
quicksilverdime: I agree with your general lack of faith in the government so I don't want you to think your thoughts are going unread or disagreed with. But at the same time I must out of fairness to your time and effort be truthful with you. I am not ready to join any formal resistance group. You may fault me for this but that is how I feel by having a young daughter and baby grandson (and wife) who depend on me. But I wish you and your group success and perhaps some day soon I will be knocking on your door.
For several months I have been aware of the unconstitional way Rick Stanley has been treated in Colo. I sent a small donatation to his wife. If he lived here in KS I would be activelty trying to help him and I know I probably should try to help him even though he lives in Colo. But I have limited time, energy and money and I have to chose my causes. I try to rely on local people cleaning up their own local problems as I will try to do here in KS.
When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
I think that question has gone through alot of peoples minds,"what if" etc. I have thought about it alot and I think it would depend on the situation. I have kids and thinking of their future is important, although I want their constitutional rights intact, I also want them to live to have kids of their own. Lets face it any sane parent wouldn't let a gun fight take place in their home if it can be avoided.
I have thought about the continued decay of or God given rights not to mention our constitutional rights. I believe the whole problem is the deversity of todays society. We have grown to be the melting pot of various ethnic groups many with very different religous and cultural beliefs. All of that happening and on top of it all is the division of the classes. People just don't unite on much of anything these days, very sad yet painfully true. Everyone is in their own everyday awareness only concerned about what directly effects them.
Our own government knows this and you can bet they have thought about the "what ifs" also. Anyone desplaying civil desobedience by resisting in any form will be labled a phsyco the politcally stacked media will insure that you can count on it. So there you are Mr. Joe Smith, you have a couple of guns to maybe do a little hunting from time to time when a loud knock on the door and the words "open up or we break it down" ring out. The kids were playing Playstation now are freaking out the wife is screaming, really now, what do you do?
The true good old days are dead and with it went the unity it took to keep our own government in check. The truth is if the kids weren't home and they kicked my door in, I probubly couldn't get to and load a gun in time anyway, and if I knew of it before hand I would just stash the guns in advance elsewhere.
If I was absolutely cornered and the kids were not in harms way I think I could put up a hell of a brief fight, but lets face it your a dead man walking after the first bullet flies. Only a well organised and heavely armed defense can stop such a thing from occuring, guess what? ... "We aint got it"
The only thing I believe that is going to happen when something happens to finally p1ss off the moral majority ( the straw that breaks the camels back ) it will be like a huge LA riot and we will have done more damage to our own neighborhoods than anywhere else. The troops will send out the riot patrol with rubber bullets and tear gas in hand. Tanks in the streets and cerphews imposed it will all fizzle to a wimper with time.
If your going to stand your ground, do it on your own terms, don't be forced into a positively losing situation out of anger. Don't be the person rioting in the street, be the red neck who calls his buddies and says what are "we" going to do about this. Your buddy will have another buddy and so on, unity ina small form yet unity, hopefully with Gods will it will grow.
NA: You seem to look at the situation from a very well thought out position and one that seems to cover all possibilites. And ideas I agree with I might add. I truly, truly believe that the great majority protecting their guns from confiscation will not chose to shoot it out at their door step (especially with the wife and kids standing in the hallway, unless they just have a death wish. If they do want to fight that much, I hope they will reconsider and not waste their life in that kind of a fight. Far better to have put something aside with which to fight from the shadows and hills. But I truly believe that if we pool our time, money and energy wwe can take this country back at the ballot box. But I don't know if we will ever all cooperate enough to do that.
When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
quote:Originally posted by BigBubba
[
. However, if the government decided to throw out the other "Top Ten" amendments and started jailing us for speaking our minds, began total control and censorship of all mediums of communication, padlocked all churches except those teaching an "approved" doctrine, denied the right to peaceably assemble, began unwarranted random searches of homes and vehicles, and denied the right of trial by jury, then, with a heavy heart and a burning need to know "what went wrong?",
Well Geez they have already done all that-and more.
"Waiting tables is what you know, making cheese is what I know-lets stick with what we know!"
-Jimmy the cheese man
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
NA: You seem to look at the situation from a very well thought out position and one that seems to cover all possibilites. And ideas I agree with I might add. I truly, truly believe that the great majority protecting their guns from confiscation will not chose to shoot it out at their door step (especially with the wife and kids standing in the hallway, unless they just have a death wish. If they do want to fight that much, I hope they will reconsider and not waste their life in that kind of a fight. Far better to have put something aside with which to fight from the shadows and hills. But I truly believe that if we pool our time, money and energy wwe can take this country back at the ballot box. But I don't know if we will ever all cooperate enough to do that.
When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
I do not advocate violence...however there IS something to be said for fallen heros...You are all thinking your way thru this,and rightfully so.Still,do we forget the furver that these litlle battles might bring?Do we forget Nathan Hale and others? These men AND women were fighting an uphill battle against the mightyest army the world had known.Who I might add had the best tech stuff at the time.It was a blood bath there as well as it might be here.Ultimatly they came outon top,it helped that the enemy was not right here I realize.Remember this,When the government FEARS the people it is FREEDOM.- When the People FEAR the government it is tyranny.
What I am talking is IF or WHEN they come,WHEN the Constitution has been thrown away.completely.... If the Governemnt moniters sites such as these,what do they FEAR/????Nothing.....except I agree the ballot box....at this point it is the tool that we have....WHEN they come a few will fight and perhaps the Giant will awaken...I fear tho that it will just peacefully slumber along,and the NEW WORLD ORDER will usher in. THE END boys and girls,that is THE END......I HOPE and pray that I am wrong,and I say this respectfully to you,my fellow Patriots/Constitutionalists........I mean to upset NO one here.But think about it,believeing in our Constitution in my opinion and in its writers and the founders etc. is a whole thing.YOu can't be picking bits and pieces here and there.It is the whole or it WILL fail.The founders knew that we MUST stay armed...To protect against TYRANNY.If they figure that know one will use the arms..why take them?If they do think that we won't use them,they do not fear do they? As stated
before,I do not advocate violence unless ALL else has failed.The key is to awaken the Giant BEFORE all this nightmare comes to be.Get out the vote, and study the founders words...OK I'll shut up now.....
I think a lot of you underestimate your military. While it is true that there are many who would follow orders without question. We swore an oath to defend the constitution against enemies foreign and domestic. I can't speak for all my brothers in arms, but I took my oath very seriously. I will not follow unlawful orders. To do so would be a breach of that oath.
And if the enemy is at my door, your damn right I will defend myself and my family to the best of my abilities. Let's all pray that it never comes to that.
Patrick Buzzard
Michigan National Guard
19K-- tanker
"Strike Hard!!"
Mr.Buzzard.
Thank you,Sir.
I have long held that one reason the elite haven't moved against Americans yet is because they cannot yet trust the Military to do as the Chinese military did.
And they realize they will only get ONE CHANCE at the big brass ring...
Yes I would because I believe that when and if that happens it will be the fulfillment of profesy and the Antichrist will be forcing 666 on the forehead and as for me I will not take the mark. I will go down
maybe fighting maybe praying. Then I will be with Jesus when he kicks
*.[;)]
quote:Originally posted by PATBUZZARD
I think a lot of you underestimate your military. While it is true that there are many who would follow orders without question. We swore an oath to defend the constitution against enemies foreign and domestic. I can't speak for all my brothers in arms, but I took my oath very seriously. I will not follow unlawful orders. To do so would be a breach of that oath.
And if the enemy is at my door, your damn right I will defend myself and my family to the best of my abilities. Let's all pray that it never comes to that.
Patrick Buzzard
Michigan National Guard
19K-- tanker
"Strike Hard!!"
WOW....What a mouthful of truth you have stated here...wow...I am struck speechless...That don't happen often.There IS hope....I pray there are many more like you,True Patriots...Thank you.I wish I could shake your hand........L.H.
Thank you PatBuzzard. Hope there are a whole lot more like you out there. Hope we never have to find out.
Quote "When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions."
Hey, I've said it before and I'll say it again. I don't believe we are going to be fighting the Army or the National Guard. I don't believe the Chinese are going to try to take this country over by force (today, but perhaps in the future, it may become a more real threat. Now, they are doing it economically aka the soft war). The russians? Nope. The UN? Probably not.
The ones we will deal with are the BATF and possibly local and state police. At the moment, they are outmanned and outgunned and they know it.
Pat Buzzard is right on the money. I've not spoken with a member of the Armed Services (any branch) that would ever turn their weapons on US Citizens. The ATF, on the other hand, has already proved they are at war with the citizens of this country. Police officers, though I am not willing to believe are all bad, can be convinced, due to their position, that they are somehow upholding the law, and there are a bunch of them that think only military and law enforcement should have them anyway.
Now, anyone else have anything they want to add to that?
Death to Tyrants!!!
Lev 26:14-39
Remember how many seats were lost after AWB passage? Vae victis!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
Yeah, it amazes me how unreasonable some of the police agencies can be. One of the posters on the general discussion forum posted how in Ohio (I think) their attempt at trying to save a CCW law lost by one vote. And the police represnetatives were publicly saying how citizens should not be allowed to carry concealed firearms (they actually mean not even carrying visible firearms either. NO FIREARMS). I wish I could publically ask those police then why do they think they have a right or a need to carry concealed when off duty. Because basically they are saying the common citizens should not carry but should instead rely on the on-duty police to protect the citizens. IF THAT IS SUCH A GOOD PLAN WHY CAN'T THE OFF DUTY POLICE LEAVE THEIR GUN AT THE STATION AND THEY CAN ALSO RELY ON THE ON-DUTY POLICE FOR PROTECTION! Plus that jerk who has made millions off the death of his son on America's Most Wanted was also in that same state publlically stating that a concealed carry law for the citizens was a bad idea. But on his own show, AMW, I have hear him brag about how he has a concealed carry permit in 4 or 5 states. (how does he get those permits since he is not a resident?). I guess he believe it is ok for him to carry concealed, but not the common citizen.
Quote "When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions."
You put him in a pot of cool water and slowly turn up the heat.
I don't think we'll ever face a situation where suddenly the goverment declares "no guns".
But what we are witnessing is a slow, methodical chipping away of Second Amendment rights (as well as many others).
However, to answer the original question as posed in its original form:
Yes...
"That a well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defence of a free state..."
Article 13
Virginia Bill of Rights
Our firearms may well be useless against a tyranny. The U.S. military has designed a radio dish to mount on Humvee's that emits radiation and gives pain to protestors, turn it up and it can cook them. What will a rifle do against that? They can get you silently in your sleep.
They also now have a high power laser capable of shooting down aircraft, missiles, and taking out other targets like humans. Imagine if the FBI got control of a laser in space and could vaporize someone with a 200 mile shot straight down with the click of a mouse?
I think our firearms are outdated and getting useless with todays technology.
The North Korean's have a portable laser the size of a rifle they have been shooting across the DMZ at our troops and aircraft for quite awhile, although it can only cause eye damage or set off sensors on our aircraft it is still a formidable psychological weapon.
Oh, I'd fight. But for now I'm collecting supplies.
NATO already has played a role on U.S. soil. The Germans have an Air Base in New Mexico, on 9-11 it was foreign Air Traffic Control aircraft handling U.S. Airspace.
Hmmmmmm, would I go armed to my door to protect my rights?? I've been reading through a majority of the posts here and was captivated by what Gunphreak has to say. But, would I fight to the death???? There's a few problem I see. Namely my 4 kids and my wonderful girlfriend. If I weren't around to pass my ideals on to them who would??? I'd have to answer no. I would probably stash my guns in an unseen place and fight the political battle til I could bring them out again. There is one phrase I remember hearing clearly and often as a child. "You will NEVER own a gun as long as you live in my house". This was my parents solution to the problem. Luckily, I was blessed with intelligence and the ability to make my own decisions. I currently own one rifle and one "handcannon", both of which I brought into the house within the past 3 days. Within hours of bringing them home I brought my two oldest sons ( because my two youngest are to young to understand) into the room showed them the proper way to hold a weapon and the safety responsibilities that come with it and proceeded to let them handle the weapon under my guidance. I believe FIRMLY that education not abstinance is the way to a safer society. My children will be taught to fight for what they believe, to respect a firearm and use it properly, whether for hunting or self defense. This is my contribution to the war on our rights. I cannot forsee myself standing at my door gunning down the officer who has come to collect my weapons making any difference what so ever. However, if it came down to a scenario such as the civil war, where I had the opportunity to pick up arms and choose a side. Well,.......... I said I'd teach my kids to fight for what they believe in didn't I????
3gunner.....now THAT is something I can say I agree with..Wish you lived in Indiana. Preemptive strikes, in a war, are always best. I also strongly agree that now would be much better, so our children would not have to deal with it. Guns up....
Fight? Damn right..guerilla tactics. I have three guns, one rifle, one handgun, and one shotgun that have "paper" on them. Those I'll keep around to 'satisfy' the grabbers, the rest will be well hidden, with plenty of ammo, and when my moment to fight arises, then I will. I will not shoot it out with them at the door...family needs to be taken care of, but there is always more than one way to skin a cat! [B)]
Finally someone who knows how to not commit suicide the minute the alphabet teams come sniffing around for our guns. I for one know what will happen to any gun owner that choses to go head-to-head with the alphabet teams. But from the shadows........who knows?
Quote "When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions."
Imagine the efficacy of the following in the hands of dedicated types...Gen 3, military night vision goggles,an/pac4-c infared aimer,supressor,level 4 armor and a plan.10000's of acres around persons home of woods,hills similiar thinkers.Just a question guys[;)]
If things came to this, god forbid, I would.
1st: make sure my family was safe and taken care of
2nd: hide my firearms best I could.
3rd: Rally with fellow pro-gun supporters to ban the confiscation
4th: Fight with my last breath.
I for sure would fight for my rights and my firearms.
NRA Life Member ---"A pocket knife, a clean hankey, and a pistol... things I can use." - Ted Nugent
Start NOTHING,instigate NOTHING....Let the idiots play with the illegal stuff.Obey ALL the laws.There WILL come a day when they pass that final law..depend on it.
When the sweeps start..the unlucky few that are caught napping will go down.That will be your clue..perhaps there will be massive "blackouts''...all communication and electricity blocked by a "squirrel shorting the lines.." something along those lines will allow a massive amount of damage in a short time...Effectivly isolating large areas for easy pickings...
youre all missing the point. there will be no gun ban for us , see how hard a time canada is having with it.
they will either ban the passing on of weapons to your heirs or require a permit and a tax to buy ammo then they can watch as they say they are eliminating an evil same as they are doing with cigarrettes. make it evil, and tax it to death they'll get no objection as long as they say they will use the money to give healthcare to the children and anyone who objects will be a stooge of the nra.
the biggest part is already done, in a lot of places when you apply for a permit to carry(we allowed it) self defense isnt a valid reason by itself. well if a gun isnt for self defense whats it for? target shooting? great then you shouldnt need a more than one and why would you need more than 10 rds in your mag either?
as more people rely on police to keep them safe they lose the ability to realize that their security is their own responsibility and once they constitute the majority they can pass whatever laws they like.
its no longer about laws even, i believe the import ban is not a legislated law, it is a presidential decree kind of like caeser and unless another president abolishes the decree it has the force of law.then there are agencies that can ban, regulate, and tax by their say so because they are an athourity vested with the right to do so.
this is the best place to live in the world but we are not free at least not how our founding fathers would have imagined freedom to be.
one more thing, free people dont have to worry about whether property they rightfully own can be taken from them or they will be imprisoned for it, not today or tomorrow.but nothing you own is safe either from the seizure by the goverment or some lawsuit cleaning you out.think about it
2gun has some food for thought for those of us who haven't already figured out that the feds have assailed our rights in the most heinous ways. One day, the color of law will be red. When that happens, the 2nd Revolution will begin.
Death to Tyrants!!!
Lev 26:14-39
Remember how many seats were lost after AWB passage? Vae victis!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
Without the slightest hesitation, YES! If the feds are allowed to go door to door without any consequence, they wiil succeed. However, should they be denied on a few occassions there will undoubtedly be more willing to fight, until eventually all gun owners are not afraid to stand their ground. It's a slow process and many will die in the struggle but it is a necessity. I hope when they come to my door it is in the latter half, but, who knows? They are coming, it's just a matter of when unless we can head it off before it is allowed to proliferate.
This country was built by strong minded men who would not be denied. We could use some of their spirit and resolve. I for one, shall not let my country down. If it is in my higher beings plans for me to die, then so be it. But, I'm taking a snitload of them with me.
Ideally the person(s) whom knocks on my door are rational people and when I ask them to please, for the sake of all of us, move on, they will do so, they will be able to see no fear in my eyes and they will know I am DEADLY serious.
There are two kinds of people in this World....Those who lead....and those who get the hell out of the way...GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
This is where the government will count on gun owners to snitch each other off. When the come knocking in order to avoid being killed, having members of the family killed or getting their house burned down the guns will be turned over.
If you fight, don't fight at your house. Shoot from public property at the jackbooted, bucket helmeted Nazis and run like hell to a safe place and shoot some more.
The best way to deal with the problem is to go directly after the politicians and bureaucrats where they live and fight them at their own houses. The same goes for the Judges that ignore our Constitutional rights. This kind of battle can only be won if the people responsible are made to suffer. Sooner or later they can learn that imposing their extreme control on others will bring an extreme response.
Keep tabs on where the politicians live. Send correspondence to their homes, instead of their offices. They may rethink their positions. All politicians must prove they live in the districts they claim to represent. Visit your local election departments for this information.
Defender
Private investigator licensed in AZ & CA that specializes in self defense cases.
quote:Originally posted by trstone
Okay....Let's get down to where the short hairs grow.
Simple question: Suppose the Feds decided to go British on us, and said "No more firearms, period. Turn them all in, or we'll confiscate them." Would you turn them in, or, when they came to your door, would you fight? And by "fight" I mean exactly that---gun in hand, willing and ready to shoot. Not some legal wrangling in the fixed courts which would naturally side with the Feds.
I don't want to hear any theoretical or philosophical discussions about "how it couldn't happen" or "the Government could never do that anyway" or "it's a silly question because (whatever)"; I want to get an idea as to what fraction of the gun-owning population would be willing to go all the way if faced with the BATF Brownshirts hammering on their door and saying "Hand it over, peasant." I was inspired to this line of inquiry after hearing that, in a poll of U.S. soldiers, more than 25% said they'd be perfectly willing to shoot American civilians if ordered by their officers to do so....
yep, I'd be willing and also ready by that time. I think we will KNOW when somethening like that is coming. My family would be outta here and c4 would be placed in appropriate areas, 1/2in plate steel would line the "safe" wall shooting position, and everything would depend on whether I could determine that I could kill all of them before they got to their radios.
I hope it never comes to that. But in any case I would probably be outta here by that time anyway.
About the military: Just remember the other 75%.
we'll just kill that initial 25%.
The duty to preserve one's self ought never be denied.
You will say I am naive but, here goes...I firmly believe that the rights of gun owners will be curtailed on the margins by the hysterical anti-gunners who have no idea of how to shoot, haven't shot and have only seen shooting in the movies. They will be abetted by the federal officials in the high density northeastern and west coast states and opposed by the rest of the country. There is no chance that the government is going to turn millions of law abiding citizens into criminals by outlawing guns. There are millions of firearms out there that will be put into attics, basements and tool sheds along with millions of rounds of ammo. Now you have criminalized a sizable portion of the population and they are armed to boot! We have seen with the drug problem and alcohol prohibition that the government can only go so far in stemming the tide of crimes where there is popular will is not behind the enforcement. My 2 cents. I think we use our time better to stop the inconvenient prohibitions on hi-cap mags in the states than worrying that all guns will be prohibited and confiscated.
quote:Originally posted by Matchshot
You will say I am naive but, here goes...I firmly believe that the rights of gun owners will be curtailed on the margins by the hysterical anti-gunners who have no idea of how to shoot, haven't shot and have only seen shooting in the movies. They will be abetted by the federal officials in the high density northeastern and west coast states and opposed by the rest of the country. There is no chance that the government is going to turn millions of law abiding citizens into criminals by outlawing guns. There are millions of firearms out there that will be put into attics, basements and tool sheds along with millions of rounds of ammo. Now you have criminalized a sizable portion of the population and they are armed to boot! We have seen with the drug problem and alcohol prohibition that the government can only go so far in stemming the tide of crimes where there is popular will is not behind the enforcement. My 2 cents. I think we use our time better to stop the inconvenient prohibitions on hi-cap mags in the states than worrying that all guns will be prohibited and confiscated.
[url][/url]
Yer right. Its the same criticism that we have all heard of for years.
California worries me. I can't even have a 20 rd magazine for my fn57. It makes no sense.
...It takes a false assumption that somehow, I am a potential criminal if I were to want one, and then ensures the assumption by creating situation that makes me a criminal if I get one. It (the law) is of the nature of a "self fulfilling prophecy".
Must be the "girlie men" at work.
...As far as I am concerned laws like that are improper laws. They don't resemble actual federal law, and aren't even good analogies of law. It is more like some metaphoric gun control law that doesn't even pass the common sense test. A phantasm made real.
...Comes from FEAR:
False Evidence Appearing Real
So on the one hand we have what looks like a "stupid" law, created by the cowardly, while on the other it seems to denote a sinister and pernicious hidden agenda.
The duty to preserve one's self ought never be denied.
I would like to think so, but I think I will only know for sure when that moment comes and I look into my wife's eyes knowing it will probably be the last time I will ever see her.
MOΛΩN ΛABE
"If ever time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced Patriots to prevent its ruin."
-Samuel Adams, Patriot/Brewer
WW: And for me too, I have 2 little boys (6 & 8)... We all, for most part, have those we cherish. The question becomes more, who and what will you leave behind and at what cost? The essence of patriotism is to be willing to give one's self for a cause (country) greater than one's self. Dying is the ultimate gift but not the only one. There are other ways to fight than guns and glory. This is a tough one...
Better to be quiet and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt
If there is no honor in getting yourself killed in the name of freedom (and I like my guns) then I am not an honorable man. If they don't take immediate cover and they're out in the open, I'm gonna get 'em all then high tail it out of there and head for the hills where I already have a retreat set up. The more I read the articles out there on the net, the more I feel like it's inevitable, the mother of all battles will take place on our soil. During the Civil War they used that goofy line up in rows and fire at each other. Who was the dumb snit that came up with that idea? I mean really, what would make someone think that the idea of lining up with no cover and firing at each other from under 100 yds. is going to help you defeat the enemy? I guess when the other side is doing it too...go figure.
The Civil War won't have snit on the battle that is yet to be waged. Just think of all the place you have to hide and snipe or take cover a blast away. It's gonna suck having to kill Americans but I guess if they are there fighting against us then they are fighting against freedom and for tyranny. That is all!
There are two kinds of people in this World....Those who lead....and those who get the hell out of the way...GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
Comments
you gunphreak and even i can explain what is supposed to be done but all you need to do is look at the supreme court to understand where we really are now. they will allow the states to whittle away what we may or may not have and the federal govt to restrict in the name of saving the children. when there are conflicts in the federal appelate system they will leave it so that a man in california would go to jail for the same crime a man in texas would go free.anything to avoid having to explain that the 2nd amndt means what it says.
so feel free to explain what should could and aught to be and i will tell you about the facts on the ground.
they will not take them away, someone might ask for payment and get a sympathetic judge on that count. they will not allow you to sell them, transfer them , or give them to your heirs. you will only be able to buy a limited amount of ammunition and that will be the expensive part,you will only be able to purchase ammo for registered guns, and they will restrict the purchases one by one, this gun is black, this one is too weak, this one is to big, this one is a saturday night special,this ammo is not sporting. you get the picture here.
as long as the american public goes along with it there will be no challenges accepted and the courts and legislatures will have no reason to bother with us.
happiness is a warm gun, preferably preban
Dear Patriots,
Had enough of your constitutional rights being violated? Had enough of police brutality? It's time to unite and take a stand against tyranny. We don't have to take it any more. Legislation isn't going to change things until the people are in power. Gen. Tommy Franks just said that our constitution would be put aside in favor of a military government (dictatorship) in the event the US is attacked by any kind of weapon of mass destruction. Just like 9/11 was a pretext to the war in Iraq so also will a WMD strike in the US be a pretext to complete government control over the people. Zero rights, folks. Your guns will be confiscated. No freedom of the press or speech. No freedom to assemble. Nothing. Martial Law will be imposed. Stay inside after curfew or get shot. Have to bring in the Blue Helmets (UN) though because all our forces, including our National Guard will be fighting overseas. Yes, foreign troops will be in control and there won't be a thing you can do about it because you wouldn't have had any guns and you weren't organized and prepared for that day. If we don't stand up now we won't be able to stand up then. I have come up with a plan that will ensure that our constitutional rights are respected and to stand up against all forms of tyranny and governmental abuse. It's called the Constitutional Rights Enforcement & Support Team (C.R.E.S.T.) It will work and it will be a force to be reckoned with but it is up to you to make it happen. Join today and get in on the ground level. This isn't my group. It is your group. All decisions in the group are ultimately up to the members. The members will nominate and elect 12 council members after the first 500 members have joined and after one month so we will have time to become aquainted with each other. The C.R.E.S.T. is still in the developement stage your imput and our collective brainstorming will evolve it into the most democratic force for good that this country has ever seen. We will keep our constitutional rights and we will get those back that have been stripped from us. You can join the group by simply joining thecrest Yahoo group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/thecrest . Let's unite and protect our rights and one another.
Below is a description (more of a sketch) of the group. If you agee with the principle of it and want to be a part of it's developement, join today. Don't join if you are not serious about confronting the thug enforcers of illegal laws with force of arms (weapons).
The purpose of The Constitutional Rights Enforcement & Support Team (CREST) is to unite American patriots and to force the usurpers of our constitution to uphold and honor our constitutional rights. You become an official member of the Constitutional Rights Enforcement & Support Team 24 hours after joining the CREST Yahoo group. This will give people time to look around and make a decision of whether or not to join without obligating themselves. If you do not or at any time no longer wish to be be a member of the Constitutional Rights Enforcement & Support Team you simply leave the CREST Yahoo group and you are free from all obligations and the C.R.E.S.T. is free from our obligation to defend you. As long as you are in the C.R.E.S.T. you are assumed to be pledged to support other members with force of arms if their constitutional rights are being violated after the C.R.E.S.T. reaches 50,000 members (not CREST Yahoo group membership). Spies and traitors will be treated as such after our constitutional rights and liberties have been restored. The council will have the right to boot out those they think are troublemakers or just spectators. This is a team effort. "All for one and one for all" applies for members of this group. If your constitutional rights are being violated the whole team will come to your defense. Hopefully this team will become the largest team in the United States and will be a key factor in eliminating tyranny and restoring our constitution and liberty as our founding fathers intended them to be. The C.R.E.S.T. will be to the usurpers of our constitutional rights what the Neighboorhood Watch Program is to the other more obvious criminals. Hopefully every neighborhood will be recruited into the C.R.E.S.T. and we will all come to each others aid when our rights are being violated under the color of law. When the usurpers see a whole neighboorhod with C.R.E.S.T. warning signs on their property they will think twice about trying to take it away or trying to force you to do or not do something that is against your constitutional rights. The jails and prisons are full of people who are there for just exercising their constitutional rights. We're going to change that. In fact, we're going to reverse that. Judges, politicians and law makers that are ignoring and taking away our constitutional rights are hereby given notice that they are going to jail for their treason.
The C.R.E.S.T. will rise up against police brutality and give the police or the national guard a taste of their own medicine if they tread on the civilian population and they will be given the same measure that they dish out. The team will be on stand by at every protest and will defend protestors against police brutality whether or not they are C.R.E.S.T. members.
Many people who join this group will die, be wounded or jailed. Some of you may be forced to shoot some constitutional rights usurpers who were "just doing their job" and some of them will have families. War has been declared on our constitution and we will defend our rights. If you don't have the courage or stomach for it please do not join the group. All we are doing now is recruiting. We are the patriots. We are not the terrorists. Please don't conspire and make threats in this group. We are not anti-government. We are anti-corruption in government and anti-tyrannists. We are only on the defensive and will not go on the offensive unless attacked. We will defend our constitution, which includes our rights, against all enemies both foreign and domestic. We have the right to keep and bear arms and that doesn't mean wear sleeveless t-shirts. We, the people, can have any weapon that it takes to throw off tyranny. Get all the weapons you can and hide them. (Not on your property) If another country takes over America we may be able to get it back again. If America turns into a military dictatorship we may be able to take it back agaim. Prepare to fight or prepare to have no rights. We need to act now. "The blue helmets are coming! The blue helmets are coming!"
If you haven't seen the documentary "Road to Tyranny" please do so now and then you will know why we need the Constitutional Rights Enforcement and Support Team. http://911.mazesoftware.com
Many are familiar with Rick Stanley's 2nd American Revolution Militia Mutal Defense Pact. www.stanley2002.org. The CREST will be pretty much the same in principle as his group but the organizational and leadership structure will be different. At the time I am starting this group Rick is in Jail for exercising his 2nd ammendment right to keep and bear arms. I believe his pact idea is a great one. The C.R.E.S.T. will not be stopped unless everyone in it has been jailed or taken out because if one council member is jailed or taken out a new one will immediately be temporarily elected until the other is free to assume his/her position again and there hopefully will be some freeing going on. Recruiting and plans will continue as usual.
The C.R.E.S.T is totally democratic but will have a council of 12 members to begin with who will investigate thoroughly and make the decision of whether or not a team member's constitutional rights are being violated and to call the rest of the team to his/her defense. The council will be selected by nomination by group members and then voting by the poll after team membership reaches 500. The 12 shall remain in office indefinitely unless they resign or have been proven to be incompetent or otherwise unfit to to make correct decisions. When the group reaches 1,000 members there will be another 12 council members added for a total of 24 and another 12 for each additional 1,000 members until the team has a total of 72 council members. There will be no defensive actions taken until we have 50,000 members, which is one thousand per state. When a state reaches 2,000 members it will become active and have it's own council of 24 who will make the decisions for that state. Eventually each state will have their own C.R.E.S.T. team with 72 council members yet each state C.R.E.S.T. team wil be united with the others and will come to their aid if extra enforcement is needed. No one may be banned from the group except by a poll 2/3 majority vote by the council. This council decision may be overruled by way of a poll by the team members if the poll vote is at least 2 to 1 in opposition to the decision of the council. The rights to freedom of the press and freedom of speech and freedom to assemble are in force in this group. Posts will not be filtered by a moderator before posting but please refrain from flaming, slandering people or spam. Please also do not post any information regarding bomb making materials etc. on this site. I accept no responsibilities for any posts because I will not be monitoring them at all times.
I will be the temporary monitor of the group but will abide by council decisions. As the group grows we will obviously need our own website and regional (state) sites much like Indymedia.org.
Please open another yahoo account and get another yahoo user ID for this group so no one will know who you are except if you volunteer to tell them through another message service. We need to protect our anonymity as our forefathers did. If you would like to use your own identity please feel free to do so at your own risk. Only the council members will be given your real names and addresses and then only after you have requested defensive support from the team. The council members will need to know your email addresses in order to contact you when a call to action is pending.
Each and every member is also an advisor and your imput and suggestions are always welcome. Each member should also try to organize in his community and as secretly as posssible so our Yahoo group will just be the tip of the iceberg. You will be responsible for finding leaders who will provide knowledge and training and plan for the defensive action in your community. They must all abide by council decisions and not act alone. The main forces of the C.R.E.S.T. will join your position as soon as possible if you or a member in your neighborhood C.R.E.S.T. is being attacked or having their rights violated. Your leaders, in coordination with other neighborhood C.R.E.S.T. leaders, should be ready and able to lead and direct as many members that arrive for your defence, which could be thousands.
The C.R.E.S.T. is open to all true american patriots regardless of sex, race, color, creed, religion or politcal party. There are no dues and all offices are voluntary. The Forum is mainly for communication between team members so please do not post more than two separate news articles each per day. If you have more news put links to them inside your message so as not to crowd the board.
Nominate and elect your council wisely. This is your group and the majority rules. I have faith in the American people to make the right decisions. Let this group be a model of what America can be. The C.R.E.S.T. is in the birth and experimental stage now and after a council has been elected the council and team members have the right to modify it in anyway that they determine would make it better effective.
Long live America! Long Live our Constitution! Long live liberty!
Quicksilverdime
Constitutional Rights Enforcement & Support Team (C.R.E.S.T.)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/thecrest
longhunter youre preaching to the chior. everyone here knows what is supposed to be. it aint and the pblic is satisfied and unwilling to rock the boat so we can say things are bad till were blue and its not going to change this.
you gunphreak and even i can explain what is supposed to be done but all you need to do is look at the supreme court to understand where we really are now. they will allow the states to whittle away what we may or may not have and the federal govt to restrict in the name of saving the children. when there are conflicts in the federal appelate system they will leave it so that a man in california would go to jail for the same crime a man in texas would go free.anything to avoid having to explain that the 2nd amndt means what it says.
so feel free to explain what should could and aught to be and i will tell you about the facts on the ground.
they will not take them away, someone might ask for payment and get a sympathetic judge on that count. they will not allow you to sell them, transfer them , or give them to your heirs. you will only be able to buy a limited amount of ammunition and that will be the expensive part,you will only be able to purchase ammo for registered guns, and they will restrict the purchases one by one, this gun is black, this one is too weak, this one is to big, this one is a saturday night special,this ammo is not sporting. you get the picture here.
as long as the american public goes along with it there will be no challenges accepted and the courts and legislatures will have no reason to bother with us.
happiness is a warm gun, preferably preban
I do get the pic.....I do ,and I agree ,however.I continue to preach in the hope that someone else may read,someone that may not allready understand.Someone who may become enlightened in some way to our cause.I can't just give up hope altogether,I know IF it ever comes down we will be the few.....I just hope to add a few more.....L.H.
For several months I have been aware of the unconstitional way Rick Stanley has been treated in Colo. I sent a small donatation to his wife. If he lived here in KS I would be activelty trying to help him and I know I probably should try to help him even though he lives in Colo. But I have limited time, energy and money and I have to chose my causes. I try to rely on local people cleaning up their own local problems as I will try to do here in KS.
When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
I have thought about the continued decay of or God given rights not to mention our constitutional rights. I believe the whole problem is the deversity of todays society. We have grown to be the melting pot of various ethnic groups many with very different religous and cultural beliefs. All of that happening and on top of it all is the division of the classes. People just don't unite on much of anything these days, very sad yet painfully true. Everyone is in their own everyday awareness only concerned about what directly effects them.
Our own government knows this and you can bet they have thought about the "what ifs" also. Anyone desplaying civil desobedience by resisting in any form will be labled a phsyco the politcally stacked media will insure that you can count on it. So there you are Mr. Joe Smith, you have a couple of guns to maybe do a little hunting from time to time when a loud knock on the door and the words "open up or we break it down" ring out. The kids were playing Playstation now are freaking out the wife is screaming, really now, what do you do?
The true good old days are dead and with it went the unity it took to keep our own government in check. The truth is if the kids weren't home and they kicked my door in, I probubly couldn't get to and load a gun in time anyway, and if I knew of it before hand I would just stash the guns in advance elsewhere.
If I was absolutely cornered and the kids were not in harms way I think I could put up a hell of a brief fight, but lets face it your a dead man walking after the first bullet flies. Only a well organised and heavely armed defense can stop such a thing from occuring, guess what? ... "We aint got it"
The only thing I believe that is going to happen when something happens to finally p1ss off the moral majority ( the straw that breaks the camels back ) it will be like a huge LA riot and we will have done more damage to our own neighborhoods than anywhere else. The troops will send out the riot patrol with rubber bullets and tear gas in hand. Tanks in the streets and cerphews imposed it will all fizzle to a wimper with time.
If your going to stand your ground, do it on your own terms, don't be forced into a positively losing situation out of anger. Don't be the person rioting in the street, be the red neck who calls his buddies and says what are "we" going to do about this. Your buddy will have another buddy and so on, unity ina small form yet unity, hopefully with Gods will it will grow.
When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
[
. However, if the government decided to throw out the other "Top Ten" amendments and started jailing us for speaking our minds, began total control and censorship of all mediums of communication, padlocked all churches except those teaching an "approved" doctrine, denied the right to peaceably assemble, began unwarranted random searches of homes and vehicles, and denied the right of trial by jury, then, with a heavy heart and a burning need to know "what went wrong?",
Well Geez they have already done all that-and more.
"Waiting tables is what you know, making cheese is what I know-lets stick with what we know!"
-Jimmy the cheese man
NA: You seem to look at the situation from a very well thought out position and one that seems to cover all possibilites. And ideas I agree with I might add. I truly, truly believe that the great majority protecting their guns from confiscation will not chose to shoot it out at their door step (especially with the wife and kids standing in the hallway, unless they just have a death wish. If they do want to fight that much, I hope they will reconsider and not waste their life in that kind of a fight. Far better to have put something aside with which to fight from the shadows and hills. But I truly believe that if we pool our time, money and energy wwe can take this country back at the ballot box. But I don't know if we will ever all cooperate enough to do that.
When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
I do not advocate violence...however there IS something to be said for fallen heros...You are all thinking your way thru this,and rightfully so.Still,do we forget the furver that these litlle battles might bring?Do we forget Nathan Hale and others? These men AND women were fighting an uphill battle against the mightyest army the world had known.Who I might add had the best tech stuff at the time.It was a blood bath there as well as it might be here.Ultimatly they came outon top,it helped that the enemy was not right here I realize.Remember this,When the government FEARS the people it is FREEDOM.- When the People FEAR the government it is tyranny.
What I am talking is IF or WHEN they come,WHEN the Constitution has been thrown away.completely.... If the Governemnt moniters sites such as these,what do they FEAR/????Nothing.....except I agree the ballot box....at this point it is the tool that we have....WHEN they come a few will fight and perhaps the Giant will awaken...I fear tho that it will just peacefully slumber along,and the NEW WORLD ORDER will usher in. THE END boys and girls,that is THE END......I HOPE and pray that I am wrong,and I say this respectfully to you,my fellow Patriots/Constitutionalists........I mean to upset NO one here.But think about it,believeing in our Constitution in my opinion and in its writers and the founders etc. is a whole thing.YOu can't be picking bits and pieces here and there.It is the whole or it WILL fail.The founders knew that we MUST stay armed...To protect against TYRANNY.If they figure that know one will use the arms..why take them?If they do think that we won't use them,they do not fear do they? As stated
before,I do not advocate violence unless ALL else has failed.The key is to awaken the Giant BEFORE all this nightmare comes to be.Get out the vote, and study the founders words...OK I'll shut up now.....
And if the enemy is at my door, your damn right I will defend myself and my family to the best of my abilities. Let's all pray that it never comes to that.
Patrick Buzzard
Michigan National Guard
19K-- tanker
"Strike Hard!!"
Thank you,Sir.
I have long held that one reason the elite haven't moved against Americans yet is because they cannot yet trust the Military to do as the Chinese military did.
And they realize they will only get ONE CHANCE at the big brass ring...
maybe fighting maybe praying. Then I will be with Jesus when he kicks
*.[;)]
Woodsie
I think a lot of you underestimate your military. While it is true that there are many who would follow orders without question. We swore an oath to defend the constitution against enemies foreign and domestic. I can't speak for all my brothers in arms, but I took my oath very seriously. I will not follow unlawful orders. To do so would be a breach of that oath.
And if the enemy is at my door, your damn right I will defend myself and my family to the best of my abilities. Let's all pray that it never comes to that.
Patrick Buzzard
Michigan National Guard
19K-- tanker
"Strike Hard!!"
WOW....What a mouthful of truth you have stated here...wow...I am struck speechless...That don't happen often.There IS hope....I pray there are many more like you,True Patriots...Thank you.I wish I could shake your hand........L.H.
Quote "When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions."
The ones we will deal with are the BATF and possibly local and state police. At the moment, they are outmanned and outgunned and they know it.
Pat Buzzard is right on the money. I've not spoken with a member of the Armed Services (any branch) that would ever turn their weapons on US Citizens. The ATF, on the other hand, has already proved they are at war with the citizens of this country. Police officers, though I am not willing to believe are all bad, can be convinced, due to their position, that they are somehow upholding the law, and there are a bunch of them that think only military and law enforcement should have them anyway.
Now, anyone else have anything they want to add to that?
Death to Tyrants!!!
Lev 26:14-39
Remember how many seats were lost after AWB passage? Vae victis!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
Luke 22:36.
Quote "When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions."
You don't put him in a pot of boiling water.
You put him in a pot of cool water and slowly turn up the heat.
I don't think we'll ever face a situation where suddenly the goverment declares "no guns".
But what we are witnessing is a slow, methodical chipping away of Second Amendment rights (as well as many others).
However, to answer the original question as posed in its original form:
Yes...
"That a well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defence of a free state..."
Article 13
Virginia Bill of Rights
They also now have a high power laser capable of shooting down aircraft, missiles, and taking out other targets like humans. Imagine if the FBI got control of a laser in space and could vaporize someone with a 200 mile shot straight down with the click of a mouse?
I think our firearms are outdated and getting useless with todays technology.
The North Korean's have a portable laser the size of a rifle they have been shooting across the DMZ at our troops and aircraft for quite awhile, although it can only cause eye damage or set off sensors on our aircraft it is still a formidable psychological weapon.
Oh, I'd fight. But for now I'm collecting supplies.
NATO already has played a role on U.S. soil. The Germans have an Air Base in New Mexico, on 9-11 it was foreign Air Traffic Control aircraft handling U.S. Airspace.
An armed society is a polite society.
Quote "When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions."
1st: make sure my family was safe and taken care of
2nd: hide my firearms best I could.
3rd: Rally with fellow pro-gun supporters to ban the confiscation
4th: Fight with my last breath.
I for sure would fight for my rights and my firearms.
NRA Life Member ---"A pocket knife, a clean hankey, and a pistol... things I can use." - Ted Nugent
When the sweeps start..the unlucky few that are caught napping will go down.That will be your clue..perhaps there will be massive "blackouts''...all communication and electricity blocked by a "squirrel shorting the lines.." something along those lines will allow a massive amount of damage in a short time...Effectivly isolating large areas for easy pickings...
they will either ban the passing on of weapons to your heirs or require a permit and a tax to buy ammo then they can watch as they say they are eliminating an evil same as they are doing with cigarrettes. make it evil, and tax it to death they'll get no objection as long as they say they will use the money to give healthcare to the children and anyone who objects will be a stooge of the nra.
the biggest part is already done, in a lot of places when you apply for a permit to carry(we allowed it) self defense isnt a valid reason by itself. well if a gun isnt for self defense whats it for? target shooting? great then you shouldnt need a more than one and why would you need more than 10 rds in your mag either?
as more people rely on police to keep them safe they lose the ability to realize that their security is their own responsibility and once they constitute the majority they can pass whatever laws they like.
its no longer about laws even, i believe the import ban is not a legislated law, it is a presidential decree kind of like caeser and unless another president abolishes the decree it has the force of law.then there are agencies that can ban, regulate, and tax by their say so because they are an athourity vested with the right to do so.
this is the best place to live in the world but we are not free at least not how our founding fathers would have imagined freedom to be.
happiness is a warm gun, preferably preban
happiness is a warm gun, preferably preban
Death to Tyrants!!!
Lev 26:14-39
Remember how many seats were lost after AWB passage? Vae victis!
Those who would offer any interpretation that would relegate Amendment II to "relic" status of a bygone era are blatantly stating that the remainder of the Bill of Rights isn't worth a damn, either.
Luke 22:36.
yes
Molon Labe
This country was built by strong minded men who would not be denied. We could use some of their spirit and resolve. I for one, shall not let my country down. If it is in my higher beings plans for me to die, then so be it. But, I'm taking a snitload of them with me.
Ideally the person(s) whom knocks on my door are rational people and when I ask them to please, for the sake of all of us, move on, they will do so, they will be able to see no fear in my eyes and they will know I am DEADLY serious.
There are two kinds of people in this World....Those who lead....and those who get the hell out of the way...GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?
If you fight, don't fight at your house. Shoot from public property at the jackbooted, bucket helmeted Nazis and run like hell to a safe place and shoot some more.
The best way to deal with the problem is to go directly after the politicians and bureaucrats where they live and fight them at their own houses. The same goes for the Judges that ignore our Constitutional rights. This kind of battle can only be won if the people responsible are made to suffer. Sooner or later they can learn that imposing their extreme control on others will bring an extreme response.
Keep tabs on where the politicians live. Send correspondence to their homes, instead of their offices. They may rethink their positions. All politicians must prove they live in the districts they claim to represent. Visit your local election departments for this information.
Defender
Private investigator licensed in AZ & CA that specializes in self defense cases.
Okay....Let's get down to where the short hairs grow.
Simple question: Suppose the Feds decided to go British on us, and said "No more firearms, period. Turn them all in, or we'll confiscate them." Would you turn them in, or, when they came to your door, would you fight? And by "fight" I mean exactly that---gun in hand, willing and ready to shoot. Not some legal wrangling in the fixed courts which would naturally side with the Feds.
I don't want to hear any theoretical or philosophical discussions about "how it couldn't happen" or "the Government could never do that anyway" or "it's a silly question because (whatever)"; I want to get an idea as to what fraction of the gun-owning population would be willing to go all the way if faced with the BATF Brownshirts hammering on their door and saying "Hand it over, peasant." I was inspired to this line of inquiry after hearing that, in a poll of U.S. soldiers, more than 25% said they'd be perfectly willing to shoot American civilians if ordered by their officers to do so....
yep, I'd be willing and also ready by that time. I think we will KNOW when somethening like that is coming. My family would be outta here and c4 would be placed in appropriate areas, 1/2in plate steel would line the "safe" wall shooting position, and everything would depend on whether I could determine that I could kill all of them before they got to their radios.
I hope it never comes to that. But in any case I would probably be outta here by that time anyway.
About the military: Just remember the other 75%.
we'll just kill that initial 25%.
The duty to preserve one's self ought never be denied.
[url][/url]
The duty to preserve one's self ought never be denied.
Better to be quiet and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt
You will say I am naive but, here goes...I firmly believe that the rights of gun owners will be curtailed on the margins by the hysterical anti-gunners who have no idea of how to shoot, haven't shot and have only seen shooting in the movies. They will be abetted by the federal officials in the high density northeastern and west coast states and opposed by the rest of the country. There is no chance that the government is going to turn millions of law abiding citizens into criminals by outlawing guns. There are millions of firearms out there that will be put into attics, basements and tool sheds along with millions of rounds of ammo. Now you have criminalized a sizable portion of the population and they are armed to boot! We have seen with the drug problem and alcohol prohibition that the government can only go so far in stemming the tide of crimes where there is popular will is not behind the enforcement. My 2 cents. I think we use our time better to stop the inconvenient prohibitions on hi-cap mags in the states than worrying that all guns will be prohibited and confiscated.
[url][/url]
Yer right. Its the same criticism that we have all heard of for years.
California worries me. I can't even have a 20 rd magazine for my fn57. It makes no sense.
...It takes a false assumption that somehow, I am a potential criminal if I were to want one, and then ensures the assumption by creating situation that makes me a criminal if I get one. It (the law) is of the nature of a "self fulfilling prophecy".
Must be the "girlie men" at work.
...As far as I am concerned laws like that are improper laws. They don't resemble actual federal law, and aren't even good analogies of law. It is more like some metaphoric gun control law that doesn't even pass the common sense test. A phantasm made real.
...Comes from FEAR:
False Evidence Appearing Real
So on the one hand we have what looks like a "stupid" law, created by the cowardly, while on the other it seems to denote a sinister and pernicious hidden agenda.
The duty to preserve one's self ought never be denied.
I would like to think so, but I think I will only know for sure when that moment comes and I look into my wife's eyes knowing it will probably be the last time I will ever see her.
MOΛΩN ΛABE
-Samuel Adams, Patriot/Brewer
Better to be quiet and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt
The Civil War won't have snit on the battle that is yet to be waged. Just think of all the place you have to hide and snipe or take cover a blast away. It's gonna suck having to kill Americans but I guess if they are there fighting against us then they are fighting against freedom and for tyranny. That is all!
There are two kinds of people in this World....Those who lead....and those who get the hell out of the way...GUT CHECK!...Which one are you?