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Instant Check Snafu

ron65ron65 Member Posts: 66 ✭✭
The last three guns I have purchased The instant Check came back with (Waiting for more information) The one at Wal-Mart dragged on for 30 days and the we were told the application had expired but if I re-applied we would get the same answer. The seller may sell to me after 72 hrs (weekends not included) but the seller does not "Have to complete the sale".WM and a lot of Sporting good stores will not sell unless they receive a O K from BTAF.Many of our Politicians see the instant check as a very minor hindrance in the purchase of a gun;in my case it prohibits me from purchasing a gun! Not the way it is supposed to work. I have written to NRA and was told there was nothing they could do. How many of you have had a problem like this? Ron

Comments

  • misstmisst Member Posts: 707 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Yep, lots of box stores will not release a gun without an "approval". Try shopping your local gun shops. Next time you do the check for a gun, ask the shop owner for a "denied appeal form" and the NTN # issued when you are doing the gun check. Even though you are not denied you can write them, find out what's on your record that is delaying you and request a PIN number. They will request information to clear up what ever is showing up on your record (could be an old arrest warrant for unpaid traffic tickets that was paid off years ago. could also be that you have a common name that several felons also have. Really anything.) Usually, if anything like this is on your recod, they contact your local police to clear up the matter. If the police do not reply (and a lot of time they don't), you never get an approval back.
    Once you send them the info, they issue you a PIN number so you won't be delayed again. I know, a big pain but it can be done. I've had a few customers do it and it works.
  • dav1965dav1965 Member Posts: 26,544 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I am in the same boat. Everytime i go and buy a long gun i get delayed. I have never been in trouble and honerably discharged from the Air Force. I can buy all the pistols i want. In my state (NC) you have to go through the police to get a pistol i have no problem there. I have to get my long guns from whoever decides after 3 days that they will sell me one. Its a hassel. David
  • chaoslodgechaoslodge Member Posts: 790 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by dav1965
    I am in the same boat. Everytime i go and buy a long gun i get delayed. I have never been in trouble and honerably discharged from the Air Force. I can buy all the pistols i want. In my state (NC) you have to go through the police to get a pistol i have no problem there. I have to get my long guns from whoever decides after 3 days that they will sell me one. Its a hassel. David


    First of all, for the record, that SUCKS.

    The work around would be to get your CCW which would grease things nicely. You should not have to but in the interest of actually getting a gun and going shooting vs fighting Byzantium,......

    I live in NC too. I did not buy a gun here until after I had my CCW.
  • leeblackmanleeblackman Member Posts: 5,683
    edited November -1
    Yea, its worth it just to get your good guy card (CCW Permit) saves the hassel. You ever contact the BATF to see what the deal is, why your getting held all the time?
  • ron65ron65 Member Posts: 66 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks for the input guys; Two of my local Sporting goods stores have the same policy Scheels and Big Bear. WM had a Special run of Ruger 10-22 (made in America by the way) with 22 inch Stainless barrel,a deluxe sporter. I've waited 40 years for them to make it.Love it! I like Walmart Too! Sam Walton's philosophy and practice was if you can produce a product in the Quantity & Quality they require, they will carry it in their stores.(can't get asy more American than that!!) I have the last three guns I wanted and two of them were in my name on the records from the dealers.but that makes no difference to BTAF.The NRA Reply made it sound as if my going through the contacting BTAF and requesting an explanation would put me on a never get ok listing?? If I got a Negative reply, I could then Get a Reason for denial. I don't want a CCW In my opinion that's Registration! In Montana you can Carry openly without a permit;although I don't usually go to town with one on my hip.Ron
  • misstmisst Member Posts: 707 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ron, I've had 3 customers that were delayed with no approval ever. All of them sent their NTN # for their last transaction to the BATF. One customer had to send in a finger print card (guessing his name and age was very similar to a bad guy), the other two had to get a copy of police records to show their charges were settled and not felonies. The BATF will let you know what is delaying you so you can clear their records up. All three recieved a PIN # and all three buy guns now with no wait. Yes, it is a hassle but it can be done.
  • ron65ron65 Member Posts: 66 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks for the input, I'll try for a pin next purchase. Ron
  • EOD GuyEOD Guy Member Posts: 931
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by ron65
    Thanks for the input, I'll try for a pin next purchase. Ron


    You have to establish a Voluntary Appeal File first. After approval, you will then be given a PIN to enter on future 4473's and which should hopefully solve your problem.

    See the link for information.

    http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cjisd/nics/vafbrocheng.htm
  • ron65ron65 Member Posts: 66 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks again for the information, Ron
  • ron65ron65 Member Posts: 66 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hi; I went ahead and sent in the voluntary appeal form as required after being denied when attempting to purchase two rifles from Cabelas'.I tried to purchase Guns on Fa Friday.I called NICS people on Mon and was told they had no record That I had tried to purchase any guns even though I gave them the NTN number.I received a letter From FBI dated July 29th that they Had received my VAF application and Fingerprint Card. It's now been almost 2 1/2 Months and still haven't heard from them.So Much for Instant Check eh. I don't know what my next step will be. If I go for Concealed carry permit,the Sheriff will have to get clearance from FBI so that probably won't work either. Who do I sue? The FBI or the Federal Government? Ever heard (Can't fight City Hall?) Any Suggestions? anyone Ever Sued for abridgement of their rights as Guaranteed By 2nd Ammendent ?
    Ron
  • BGHillbillyBGHillbilly Member Posts: 1,927 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by ron65
    Thanks for the input guys; Two of my local Sporting goods stores have the same policy Scheels and Big Bear. WM had a Special run of Ruger 10-22 (made in America by the way) with 22 inch Stainless barrel,a deluxe sporter. I've waited 40 years for them to make it.Love it! I like Walmart Too! Sam Walton's philosophy and practice was if you can produce a product in the Quantity & Quality they require, they will carry it in their stores.(can't get asy more American than that!!) I have the last three guns I wanted and two of them were in my name on the records from the dealers.but that makes no difference to BTAF.The NRA Reply made it sound as if my going through the contacting BTAF and requesting an explanation would put me on a never get ok listing?? If I got a Negative reply, I could then Get a Reason for denial. I don't want a CCW In my opinion that's Registration! In Montana you can Carry openly without a permit;although I don't usually go to town with one on my hip.Ron
    That was Sam, he's been dead for years and they don't operate that way anymore, but that another subject.
  • ron65ron65 Member Posts: 66 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hi; I checked up on my appeal last part of Nov and was told it is taking 145 days just for FBI to get to my file to process it. So not too encouraging for Instant Check System. Our Government at work?? Think they can process millions of medical Claims faster??.Ron
  • BGHillbillyBGHillbilly Member Posts: 1,927 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by ron65
    Hi; I checked up on my appeal last part of Nov and was told it is taking 145 days just for FBI to get to my file to process it. So not too encouraging for Instant Check System. Our Government at work?? Think they can process millions of medical Claims faster??.Ron
    Nope, it takes them about 6mos on average to decide they didn't get an employer tax report that has been mailed and 12 mos on average to question any amounts on forms they don't manage to lose.
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    I don't know if someone else has covered it or not, but you can apply for, and get a special identification number from the ATF that will stop your delays. Basically, they do a background check on you and issue you an ID # that you present to the dealer at the time of purchase. Other than that, if you live in a free state, your CCW permit should work in lieu of the NICS check.
  • COBmmcmssCOBmmcmss Member Posts: 1,174 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by ron65
    Hi; I checked up on my appeal last part of Nov and was told it is taking 145 days just for FBI to get to my file to process it. So not too encouraging for Instant Check System. Our Government at work?? Think they can process millions of medical Claims faster??.Ron


    You can bet that a criminal isn't waiting 145 days to "buy their weapon". So tell me, just who is this waiting period law protecting?

    And NO they (the government) will not be able to process medical any faster than that. You know, there must be a reason the Canadians come south to the U.S. to get their medical care. You know THEY have socialized medicine up there. Just like what Obamination wants US to have. Isn't he special....
  • RocklobsterRocklobster Member Posts: 7,060
    edited November -1
    Yeah, thank goodness for "reasonable, common-sense laws to keep guns out of the hands of criminals."

    I feel for you, man. Good luck.
  • ron65ron65 Member Posts: 66 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hey Eric, The application I've been waitin all this time for is for the PIN number! sounds simple , just get a pin number! I talked to my Sherrif and He says I can apply for a CCW permit, byt he has to clear it through the FBI also so back to square one. Thanks for the support guys. Ron
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by ron65
    Hey Eric, The application I've been waitin all this time for is for the PIN number! sounds simple , just get a pin number! I talked to my Sherrif and He says I can apply for a CCW permit, byt he has to clear it through the FBI also so back to square one. Thanks for the support guys. Ron


    Your CCW will likely go through the FBI...but probably not with the same scrutiny as the ATF's PIN #. I'd get your carry permit...
  • ron65ron65 Member Posts: 66 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hi again ; Just thought I'd let you know I received my PIN number and got the two guns that Cabelas had kept for me. July 12th NICS received my application and Dec 10th I received my PIN number.I am now busy loading .218 Bee for Browning Model 65 Thanks for your support, Perserverance Did pay off this time. Ron
  • pickenuppickenup Member Posts: 22,846 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks for the update.
    Glad it worked out for you.

    Too bad you have to go through this UNCONSTITUTIONAL (%*$%* [:(!]
  • cordocordo Member Posts: 9 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Had a bad experience today. My adult son and I went to a gun show, then to Bass Pro. At Bass Pro I decided to but a Browning 22 Auto. Filled out the Fed form, and asked my son for the 300 dollars I had given him at the show. The clerk came back, loudly accused me of a "straw purchase" refused my purchase and walked away, all in front of 20-25 people. We walked away and I went back and told him the guy was my son and he was giving me back my own money in front of all who could see. I have an FFL03, and CCW fo OHIO, and have never been in trouble or had a problem like this.
    Obviously I won't go back for anything, let alone a 500 dollar 22. And how many felons are "straw purchsing" a 500 22 boys rifle? Has anyone else had this happen? I bought a Uberti 44-40 at the same store last Chrisymas and it was bad because they did not know anything about the pruducts and then lost the pistol I had ordered along with the paperwork, including the 525 dollar reciept. I will not be back, and I spent 3000 a year at least there on ammo.
  • ron65ron65 Member Posts: 66 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hi; at very least,you should contact the manager and explain the situation to him.In all probability, the employee was acting on his own. If so, he will Should be repremanded or fired The firearms sales is not the place for him.Maybe a letter to Upper management at BassPro Would be well advised. Although I didn't receive a reply when I wrote the President of Wal Mart.The Peopl in gun sales at Cabela's were very helpful and patient on my purchase problem. I wish some of you more knowledgeable People would explain just exactly what the law says about purchasing a firearm as a gift.either for a family member or friend.It should not be against the law. I can understand it not being legal to purchase a gun for a (Known Felon) and most of us wouldn't do that. Ron
  • e3mrke3mrk Member Posts: 1,851 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I actually called the BATF because I am always put on delay for at least three days.
    The Lady I spoke with was very nice and She informed Me that there was Someone with the same name as Mine that is a Felon so I always get put on hold until They figure out I am not this Guy.The funny thing is that this Guy lives in the same City as I do.
  • lksmith03lksmith03 Member Posts: 1,742 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by leeblackman
    Yea, its worth it just to get your good guy card (CCW Permit) saves the hassel. You ever contact the BATF to see what the deal is, why your getting held all the time?


    YUP it is certainly worth the trouble to get one of those may even help if you get pulled over, since I had a cop pull me over I handed him my CC permit, He asked If I was carrying and I said yes, told him what it was and asked if he'd like to look at it. He said no thanks, have a good day

    When NICS is down you can still buy
  • jpwolfjpwolf Member Posts: 9,164
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by lksmith03


    YUP it is certainly worth the trouble to get one of those may even help if you get pulled over, since I had a cop pull me over I handed him my CC permit, He asked If I was carrying and I said yes, told him what it was and asked if he'd like to look at it. He said no thanks, have a good day

    When NICS is down you can still buy


    So you think having your 2A right, shoved up your *, is a good thing?[?]
  • Horse Plains DrifterHorse Plains Drifter Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 37,948 ***** Forums Admin
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by jpwolf
    quote:Originally posted by lksmith03


    YUP it is certainly worth the trouble to get one of those may even help if you get pulled over, since I had a cop pull me over I handed him my CC permit, He asked If I was carrying and I said yes, told him what it was and asked if he'd like to look at it. He said no thanks, have a good day

    When NICS is down you can still buy


    So you think having your 2A right, shoved up your *, is a good thing?[?]
    [;)]
  • lksmith03lksmith03 Member Posts: 1,742 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by jpwolf
    quote:Originally posted by lksmith03


    YUP it is certainly worth the trouble to get one of those may even help if you get pulled over, since I had a cop pull me over I handed him my CC permit, He asked If I was carrying and I said yes, told him what it was and asked if he'd like to look at it. He said no thanks, have a good day

    When NICS is down you can still buy


    So you think having your 2A right, shoved up your *, is a good thing?[?]


    Never said I liked HAVING to get a permit to exercise my GOD given right. Just trying to make the best of a bad thing.

    In My opinion the only restrictions on ones RTKBA is their desire to get something and their ability to afford it.
    I can half way see a type of NICS to see if ones Constitutional right has been revoked but that's it. The current form it is crap since teh Govt runs it and the govt can't do anytihng right domestically
  • Horse Plains DrifterHorse Plains Drifter Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 37,948 ***** Forums Admin
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by lksmith03
    I can half way see a type of NICS to see if ones Constitutional right has been revoked but that's it.I know of an easy way to tell if someone's Constitutional right has been revoked.....If they're standing in front of you it's not because they are not in jail/prison.
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Horse Plains Drifter
    quote:Originally posted by lksmith03
    I can half way see a type of NICS to see if ones Constitutional right has been revoked but that's it.I know of an easy way to tell if someone's Constitutional right has been revoked.....If they're standing in front of you it's not because they are not in jail/prison.


    +1

    HPD gets it. Why is the concept so hard?
  • airmungairmung Member Posts: 579 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    What's wrong with private sales? So far, that's not illegal. That's the only way I will buy guns these days.
    As far as I am concerned, NICS=gun registration and I'm not gonna play. Who really thinks that all those juicy records are deleted?
    Not me, Charlie. That goes double for this misadministration.
    As an aircraft mechanic, I have passed several FBI backbround checks in order to be cleared for a SITA badge and work on air carrier aircraft. But I'll be da***d if I will go through that in order to buy a gun. Neither will I give anyone my ID. Or ask for theirs. I don't want my name to come up if some LEO leans on them some day, and vice versa. Both parties are protected this way. It is nobody's business who buys and who sells guns. Unless you are a violent criminal, in which case you aren't going to obey laws anyway.
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by pickenup
    Thanks for the update.
    Glad it worked out for you.

    Too bad you have to go through this UNCONSTITUTIONAL (%*$%* [:(!]



    +1

    There is absolutely NO EXCUSE for them to take that long to process your Un-Constitutional paperwork. If you come into my gun shop and don't raise any red flags with me personally, I will transfer the firearm on the 5th business day with or without the ATF's approval.
  • lksmith03lksmith03 Member Posts: 1,742 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by freemind
    quote:Originally posted by Horse Plains Drifter
    quote:Originally posted by lksmith03
    I can half way see a type of NICS to see if ones Constitutional right has been revoked but that's it.I know of an easy way to tell if someone's Constitutional right has been revoked.....If they're standing in front of you it's not because they are not in jail/prison.


    +1

    HPD gets it. Why is the concept so hard?

    Just trying to be realistic, the only way to get our rights back is do regain the m the same way they were lost, small incremental steps.
    All of the gun laws on the books are unconstitutional since they violate the due process clause of the 14th amendment by revoking ones rights that are protected by the 2nd Amendment without the due process of law. If I could wave a magic wand and undo all the damage done by idiotic politicians I would but since I don't have said wand I have to go with the best thing I have available which is incrementalism to turn back the damage.
    I hope that clears up my point a little better
  • ron65ron65 Member Posts: 66 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Eric, Why would you need to wait until the 5th day? It is my understanding that after 72 hrs.(not including Holidays or weekends) you can sell if there is no dis-approval from NICS Ron
  • skicatskicat Member Posts: 14,431
    edited November -1
    I believe it is because the first day when you originally go for the check doesn't count. Add 3 full days(72 hrs) and the 5th day Eric has fulfilled the required wait period.
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by skicat
    I believe it is because the first day when you originally go for the check doesn't count. Add 3 full days(72 hrs) and the 5th day Eric has fulfilled the required wait period.



    This is correct. The first day doesn't count...The ATF actually provides you with a chart showing what day of the week you can legally transfer on after getting a delay. It works out to 5 business days.
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