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Great answer to a gun controller C&P
Goatroper
Member Posts: 251 ✭✭✭
Excellent response by Lawdog:
***********************
Friday, September 24, 2010
Ok, I'll play
20 questions from here. ( http://www.commongunsense.com/2010/09/where-there-is-open-mind.html )
1. Do you believe that criminals and domestic abusers should be able to buy guns without background checks?
No background check ever stopped a criminal from getting his hands on a gun. When they steal them out of cop cars and FBI vans, they don't leave a 4473 on the seat, and the ATF has never received a 4473 from the local dope house. And given the ever-loosening definition of "domestic abuser", I've got reservations there, too.
1. What is your proposal for keeping guns away from criminals, domestic abusers, terrorists and dangerously mentally ill people?
Since domestic abuse is a crime, and since terrorism is a crime, let me tighten that up for you: "What is your proposal for keeping guns away from criminals and dangerously mentally ill people?
Easy. When they are convicted of a crime, stick their arses in prison.
1. Do you believe that a background check infringes on your constitutional right to "keep and bear arms"?
Yes.
1. Do you believe that I and people with whom I work intend to ban your guns?
Yes.
1. If yes to #4, how do you think that could happen ( I mean the physical action)?
The same way you banned guns in New York. The same way you banned guns in Chicago. The same way you banned guns in Washington DC. Duh.
1. What do you think are the "second amendment remedies" that the tea party GOP candidate for Senate in Nevada( Sharron Angle) has proposed?
I don't have a clue. Ask her.
1. Do you believe in the notion that if you don't like what someone is doing or saying, second amendment remedies should be applied?
Since I don't like being robbed, and I don't like being assaulted, yes, I do. As for speaking, that's what the Amendment next to the Second is for.
1. Do you believe it is O.K. to call people with whom you disagree liars and demeaning names?
If they're lying, it's fairly appropriate. And since folks from your side have called me everything from crazy to redneck to inbred, I'd have to ask your stance on that one.
1. If yes to #8, would you do it in a public place to the person's face?
Oh, yes.
1. Do you believe that any gun law will take away your constitutional rights?
Yes.
1. Do you believe in current gun laws? Do you think they are being enforced? If not, explain.
Damn skippy they're being enforced. That's why it takes me, a peace officer and an honourably-discharged member of the United States military, five days for your so-called "Instant Check" to clear me; it's why West Point graduates are being gunned down in a Las Vegas Costco parking lot for legally carrying their pistol, so on and so forth.
1. Do you believe that all law-abiding citizens are careful with their guns and would never shoot anybody?
You mean never shooting anybody, or never shooting anybody who needs it? I believe that all law-abiding citizens are human, and thus, not perfect. That's not a reason to ban their guns, though.
1. Do you believe that people who commit suicide with a gun should be included in the gun statistics?
I don't think there should be gun statistics. Statistics are only there to be massaged into giving the person with the statistics the answer they want to see.
1. Do you believe that accidental gun deaths should "count" in the total numbers?
See above.
1. Do you believe that sometimes guns, in careless use or an accident, can shoot a bullet without the owner or holder of the gun pulling the trigger?
No. Modern gun design prevents the discharge of the gun without the trigger being pulled.
1. Do you believe that 30,000 gun deaths a year is too many?
Compared to what? Compared to the number of traffic fatalities, it's minuscule. Compared to the number of swimming pool fatalities, it's still a small number. Compared to the number of people killed each year by medical malpractice it's tiny. Compared to the number of people beaten to death each year by a pyromaniac midget with an ivory elephant goad, it's a large number.
1. How will you help to prevent more shootings in this country?
The same thing I've been doing every day since I turned twenty-one. Donate my time to educate and teach.
1. Do you believe the articles that I have posted about actual shootings or do you think I am making them up or that human interest stories about events that have happened should not count when I blog about gun injuries and deaths?
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
1. There has been some discussion of the role of the ATF here. Do you believe the ATF wants your guns and wants to harass you personally? If so, provide examples ( some have written a few that need to be further examined).
Personally? No. Doesn't mean that they aren't an impersonal pain in my *, though.
1. Will you continue a reasonable discussion towards an end that might lead somewhere or is this an exercise in futility?
Since what you consider to be reasonable isn't even in the same plane of reality with what I consider reasonable, probably not.
Allow me to explain.
I hear a lot about "compromise" from your camp ... except, it's not compromise.
Let's say I have this cake. It is a very nice cake, with "GUN RIGHTS" written across the top in lovely floral icing. Along you come and say, "Give me that cake."
I say, "No, it's my cake."
You say, "Let's compromise. Give me half." I respond by asking what I get out of this compromise, and you reply that I get to keep half of my cake.
Okay, we compromise. Let us call this compromise The National Firearms Act of 1934.
There I am with my half of the cake, and you walk back up and say, "Give me that cake."
I say, "No, it's my cake."
You say, "Let's compromise." What do I get out of this compromise? Why, I get to keep half of what's left of the cake I already own.
So, we have your compromise -- let us call this one the Gun Control Act of 1968 -- and I'm left holding what is now just a quarter of my cake.
And I'm sitting in the corner with my quarter piece of cake, and here you come again. You want my cake. Again.
This time you take several bites -- we'll call this compromise the Clinton Executive Orders -- and I'm left with about a tenth of what has always been MY DAMN CAKE and you've got nine-tenths of it.
Then we compromised with the Lautenberg Act (nibble, nibble), the HUD/Smith and Wesson agreement (nibble, nibble), the Brady Law (NOM NOM NOM), the School Safety and Law Enforcement Improvement Act (sweet tap-dancing Freyja, my finger!)
I'm left holding crumbs of what was once a large and satisfying cake, and you're standing there with most of MY CAKE, making anime eyes and whining about being "reasonable", and wondering "why we won't compromise".
I'm done with being reasonable, and I'm done with compromise. Nothing about gun control in this country has ever been "reasonable" nor a genuine "compromise".
From: http://thelawdogfiles.blogspot.com/2010/09/ok-ill-play.html
***********************
Friday, September 24, 2010
Ok, I'll play
20 questions from here. ( http://www.commongunsense.com/2010/09/where-there-is-open-mind.html )
1. Do you believe that criminals and domestic abusers should be able to buy guns without background checks?
No background check ever stopped a criminal from getting his hands on a gun. When they steal them out of cop cars and FBI vans, they don't leave a 4473 on the seat, and the ATF has never received a 4473 from the local dope house. And given the ever-loosening definition of "domestic abuser", I've got reservations there, too.
1. What is your proposal for keeping guns away from criminals, domestic abusers, terrorists and dangerously mentally ill people?
Since domestic abuse is a crime, and since terrorism is a crime, let me tighten that up for you: "What is your proposal for keeping guns away from criminals and dangerously mentally ill people?
Easy. When they are convicted of a crime, stick their arses in prison.
1. Do you believe that a background check infringes on your constitutional right to "keep and bear arms"?
Yes.
1. Do you believe that I and people with whom I work intend to ban your guns?
Yes.
1. If yes to #4, how do you think that could happen ( I mean the physical action)?
The same way you banned guns in New York. The same way you banned guns in Chicago. The same way you banned guns in Washington DC. Duh.
1. What do you think are the "second amendment remedies" that the tea party GOP candidate for Senate in Nevada( Sharron Angle) has proposed?
I don't have a clue. Ask her.
1. Do you believe in the notion that if you don't like what someone is doing or saying, second amendment remedies should be applied?
Since I don't like being robbed, and I don't like being assaulted, yes, I do. As for speaking, that's what the Amendment next to the Second is for.
1. Do you believe it is O.K. to call people with whom you disagree liars and demeaning names?
If they're lying, it's fairly appropriate. And since folks from your side have called me everything from crazy to redneck to inbred, I'd have to ask your stance on that one.
1. If yes to #8, would you do it in a public place to the person's face?
Oh, yes.
1. Do you believe that any gun law will take away your constitutional rights?
Yes.
1. Do you believe in current gun laws? Do you think they are being enforced? If not, explain.
Damn skippy they're being enforced. That's why it takes me, a peace officer and an honourably-discharged member of the United States military, five days for your so-called "Instant Check" to clear me; it's why West Point graduates are being gunned down in a Las Vegas Costco parking lot for legally carrying their pistol, so on and so forth.
1. Do you believe that all law-abiding citizens are careful with their guns and would never shoot anybody?
You mean never shooting anybody, or never shooting anybody who needs it? I believe that all law-abiding citizens are human, and thus, not perfect. That's not a reason to ban their guns, though.
1. Do you believe that people who commit suicide with a gun should be included in the gun statistics?
I don't think there should be gun statistics. Statistics are only there to be massaged into giving the person with the statistics the answer they want to see.
1. Do you believe that accidental gun deaths should "count" in the total numbers?
See above.
1. Do you believe that sometimes guns, in careless use or an accident, can shoot a bullet without the owner or holder of the gun pulling the trigger?
No. Modern gun design prevents the discharge of the gun without the trigger being pulled.
1. Do you believe that 30,000 gun deaths a year is too many?
Compared to what? Compared to the number of traffic fatalities, it's minuscule. Compared to the number of swimming pool fatalities, it's still a small number. Compared to the number of people killed each year by medical malpractice it's tiny. Compared to the number of people beaten to death each year by a pyromaniac midget with an ivory elephant goad, it's a large number.
1. How will you help to prevent more shootings in this country?
The same thing I've been doing every day since I turned twenty-one. Donate my time to educate and teach.
1. Do you believe the articles that I have posted about actual shootings or do you think I am making them up or that human interest stories about events that have happened should not count when I blog about gun injuries and deaths?
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
1. There has been some discussion of the role of the ATF here. Do you believe the ATF wants your guns and wants to harass you personally? If so, provide examples ( some have written a few that need to be further examined).
Personally? No. Doesn't mean that they aren't an impersonal pain in my *, though.
1. Will you continue a reasonable discussion towards an end that might lead somewhere or is this an exercise in futility?
Since what you consider to be reasonable isn't even in the same plane of reality with what I consider reasonable, probably not.
Allow me to explain.
I hear a lot about "compromise" from your camp ... except, it's not compromise.
Let's say I have this cake. It is a very nice cake, with "GUN RIGHTS" written across the top in lovely floral icing. Along you come and say, "Give me that cake."
I say, "No, it's my cake."
You say, "Let's compromise. Give me half." I respond by asking what I get out of this compromise, and you reply that I get to keep half of my cake.
Okay, we compromise. Let us call this compromise The National Firearms Act of 1934.
There I am with my half of the cake, and you walk back up and say, "Give me that cake."
I say, "No, it's my cake."
You say, "Let's compromise." What do I get out of this compromise? Why, I get to keep half of what's left of the cake I already own.
So, we have your compromise -- let us call this one the Gun Control Act of 1968 -- and I'm left holding what is now just a quarter of my cake.
And I'm sitting in the corner with my quarter piece of cake, and here you come again. You want my cake. Again.
This time you take several bites -- we'll call this compromise the Clinton Executive Orders -- and I'm left with about a tenth of what has always been MY DAMN CAKE and you've got nine-tenths of it.
Then we compromised with the Lautenberg Act (nibble, nibble), the HUD/Smith and Wesson agreement (nibble, nibble), the Brady Law (NOM NOM NOM), the School Safety and Law Enforcement Improvement Act (sweet tap-dancing Freyja, my finger!)
I'm left holding crumbs of what was once a large and satisfying cake, and you're standing there with most of MY CAKE, making anime eyes and whining about being "reasonable", and wondering "why we won't compromise".
I'm done with being reasonable, and I'm done with compromise. Nothing about gun control in this country has ever been "reasonable" nor a genuine "compromise".
From: http://thelawdogfiles.blogspot.com/2010/09/ok-ill-play.html
Comments
I hope TR Fox, Rosie, and a few others amble over and read this.
Dream on. They are too busy with liberal agendas.
I hope TR Fox, Rosie, and a few others amble over and read this.
We have posted hundreds of arguments just as good as this one. Care to wager?[;)]