In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
quote:Originally posted by Marc1301
I love the NRA,......due to them, once again I am being threatened with non-renewal of my membership to the range I have belonged to for years.
Went through this before, and the current Treasurer took care of it.
He is gone now, and the new one insists on 100% membership of the primary members. Before they accepted GOA, but not this guy.
Still going around with them, but regardless of what happens I will NOT join the NRA again. The bummer is I will not be able to shoot anywhere near as much as I have in the past.[xx(]
Sorry for going off topic.
I agree what they are doing to you is wrong, BUT it is a private club is it not???
They have the right to set the qualifications to join/belong do they not? Do you believe in their right to do so?[?]
Sure I do,.......as you said it's a private club.
I just find it odd that they would change back and forth, especially since I have been a member for many years.
My money has helped to support the range, not the NRA.
I have also donated a lot of my time in doing work out there for free. Only about 5% of the members pitch in when things need to be done.
This is simply one of those things that happens when you get some putz in a position of 'power' that has never had any before. As I said,......the previous president and treasurer both are bugging this guy to death about driving me away. They understand my conviction, believe it or not.
They also know that I belong to the GOA, and my beliefs about the second.
It's all about a self-important little twerp with 'small man syndrome' IMHO.[;)]
"Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here." - William Shatner
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by lt496
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
So apparently lt believes anti gunners. Like I said, I'm not sure who the bigger idiot is.
I could post something saying that I took a poll and 85% of gunbroker forum members believe me. I could even show the poll if I wanted to. Doesn't mean that it's accurate or true.
Personally, I don't participate in any polls. I'm sure that many that do, participate many times as well. And (this is going to be a shocker lt) they probably don't all tell the truth. There could be gun hating PETA lovers participating in the poll that claim to be NRA members just to boost the numbers.
Remember, this is the internet; nobody tells the truth.
I simply know for a flat-fact that many, if not most, NRA members support various forms of Anti-Amendment II gun-control/infringement...just like you, for example.
Tough pill to swallow, it seems.
And there are a lot more NON NRA members that believe in gun control. The fact still remains that you believe what the anti gunner is telling you about who supports him.
And just so you can be even more pissed off and think I'm solely responsible for the destruction of the nation, I believe that some reasonable gun control laws are necessary until we get our justice system fixed.
Go ahead. Get your flame on. If you keep bringing this up, you may accidentally stumble on an intelligent point. But I won't hold my breath for that day.
You really don't get it.
Yes, the anti-Constitution NRA members for gun-control, coupled with the other anti-Constitution non-NRA members, join and make a powerful force; one that has directly led to the abrogation of Amendment II.
As to believing an anti-gunner, even a blind hog finds an acorn now and then. In this case, the information about the NRA and its member's support for gun-control has been long known by me.
This poll/survey merely pointed to that simple, long known and irrefutable fact.
You seem to be avoiding or attempting to negate that fact, don'tcha.[:)]
As you may or may not learn, it is impossible to defend the indefensible. A hint......you are attempting it.
As to you outing yourself as a gun-controller, this too has been obvious and know by your previous postings.
Of course you are not 'solely' responsible, you are merely another of tens of millions of collectivist anti-Constitution gerbils, busily gnawing away at the foundations of the Republic.
You and those millions of others just like you ARE responsible for facilitating the Republics destruction.
It really is that simple, whether you choose to admit it or not. It is what it is.
quote:Originally posted by legear
quote:Originally posted by lt496
quote:Originally posted by legear
I get sick of this topic. It comes up every few days and goes nowhere and changes no minds.
I wish it was treated like religious topics
I bet you do.
NRA member or supporter, are you? Or do you merely believe that some 'common-sense' gun-control is okay?
My post has nothing to do with me being in the NRA or not, Im saying this topics comes up every few days with the same trolls showing how they hate NRA.
This NRA hate looks like the occupy tards that just want something to be * about.
We get it! You dont like them.
Go start your own group.
So, now that you got that out of your system. You are an NRA Member and/or supporter of 'reasonable or common sense' gun-control, aren'tcha?[:)]
And just a hint...yes, your post has to do with the NRA because you felt obligated to jump into a thread about the NRA and expressed your displeasure.
fact is, if you knew or agreed that the NRA is a quisling, anti-Amendment II org, you would not opine in the negative. Your comments point to something otherwise, don't they?
Come on, you can admit it. Own up to it, wear it proudly.[:o)]
quote:Originally posted by lt496
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by lt496
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
So apparently lt believes anti gunners. Like I said, I'm not sure who the bigger idiot is.
I could post something saying that I took a poll and 85% of gunbroker forum members believe me. I could even show the poll if I wanted to. Doesn't mean that it's accurate or true.
Personally, I don't participate in any polls. I'm sure that many that do, participate many times as well. And (this is going to be a shocker lt) they probably don't all tell the truth. There could be gun hating PETA lovers participating in the poll that claim to be NRA members just to boost the numbers.
Remember, this is the internet; nobody tells the truth.
I simply know for a flat-fact that many, if not most, NRA members support various forms of Anti-Amendment II gun-control/infringement...just like you, for example.
Tough pill to swallow, it seems.
And there are a lot more NON NRA members that believe in gun control. The fact still remains that you believe what the anti gunner is telling you about who supports him.
And just so you can be even more pissed off and think I'm solely responsible for the destruction of the nation, I believe that some reasonable gun control laws are necessary until we get our justice system fixed.
Go ahead. Get your flame on. If you keep bringing this up, you may accidentally stumble on an intelligent point. But I won't hold my breath for that day.
You really don't get it.
Yes, the anti-Constitution NRA members for gun-control, coupled with the other anti-Constitution non-NRA members, join and make a powerful force; one that has directly led to the abrogation of Amendment II.
As to believing an anti-gunner, even a blind hog finds an acorn now and then. In this case, the information about the NRA and its member's support for gun-control has been long known by me.
This poll/survey merely pointed to that simple, long known and irrefutable fact.
You seem to be avoiding or attempting to negate that fact, don'tcha.[:)]
As you may or may not learn, it is impossible to defend the indefensible. A hint......you are attempting it.
As to you outing yourself as a gun-controller, this too has been obvious and know by your previous postings.
Of course you are not 'solely' responsible, you are merely another of tens of millions of collectivist anti-Constitution gerbils, busily gnawing away at the foundations of the Republic.You and those millions of others just like you ARE responsible for facilitating the Republics destruction.
It really is that simple, whether you choose to admit it or not. It is what it is.
I like that one![;)][:D]
"Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here." - William Shatner
quote:Originally posted by wpage
NRA has its warts...
But it still is the best political tool we have to fight the powers that be against the 2nd amendment.
The NRA is certainly fighting hard against the second amendment, I'll grant you that.
Some will die in hot pursuit
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
quote:Originally posted by wpage
NRA has its warts...
But it still is the best political tool we have to fight the powers that be against the 2nd amendment.
If sleeping with the enemy is the best tool we have it's over.
BTW it's been over for a while now, with the near complete circumvention of the BOR to this day. Not only the 2A but all rights to privacy too.
The icing is being spread on the cake as we speak and to most that is perfectly fine as long as they don't cancel dancing with the stars,american idol ect,ect,.....[:(][xx(]
Marc,
I agree but I guess the 'twerp' is the one calling the shots.
To all of you who are bad mouthing the NRA a question.
Is it your believe the NRA has done NOTHING, ZERO, to assist those who support the RTKABA's???[?]
I don't hate the NRA I despise ALL who circumvent the constitution/BOR.
It is a well written document that was designed to protect people and guarantee basic freedom, PERIOD!! [:p]
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
Marc,
I agree but I guess the 'twerp' is the one calling the shots.
To all of you who are bad mouthing the NRA a question.
Is it your believe the NRA has done NOTHING, ZERO, to assist those who support the RTKABA's???[?]
There I fixed it![;)]
In a word: Yes.
The NRA has done a lot to preserve people's access to firearms through the acceptance of government control and the promoting of legislation that, while superficially preserves said access, factually codifies that Government power of control.
None of this has promoted the recognition of an individual right. La Perri?r and pals would have us believe that a law on the books allowing the law-abiding citizen to possess a firearm, provided he passes government scrutiny, is a recognition of a natural right codified in Amendment II. I continue to be amazed appalled at how many people have submitted to this belief system.
Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
Marc,
I agree but I guess the 'twerp' is the one calling the shots.
To all of you who are bad mouthing the NRA a question.
Is it your believe the NRA has done NOTHING, ZERO, to assist those who support the RTKABA's???[?]
There I fixed it![;)]
Can't speak for Mark, but I will say this. If they are my advocate for my second amendment right, who is my opponent? Cause they sure look to be on the same side to me. One wants to control me personally. The other wants to control what guns I have access to, when, and why. Can you determine which is who?
If they, the NRA, have done anything. IF. They have had an indirect positive influence on some people. Since they do a fine job at training folks in the safe use of firearms, having folks who are well trained in the use of that force, instead of bumbling though it and potentially accidentally killing themselves... that could be viewed as a positive, IMO. Some others are marginally made aware that the second amendment is existent, by the NRA. That's about it though, so far as I can tell.
Some will die in hot pursuit
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
Marc,
I agree but I guess the 'twerp' is the one calling the shots.
To all of you who are bad mouthing the NRA a question.
Is it your believe the NRA has done NOTHING, ZERO, to assist those who support the RTKABA's???[?]
There I fixed it![;)]
Can't speak for Mark, but I will say this. If they are my advocate for my second amendment right, who is my opponent? Cause they sure look to be on the same side to me. One wants to control me personally. The other wants to control what guns I have access to, when, and why. Can you determine which is who?
If they, the NRA, have done anything. IF. They have had an indirect positive influence on some people. Since they do a fine job at training folks in the safe use of firearms, having folks who are well trained in the use of that force, instead of bumbling though it and potentially accidentally killing themselves... that could be viewed as a positive, IMO. Some others are marginally made aware that the second amendment is existent, by the NRA. That's about it though, so far as I can tell.
Actually I see it different than you. I have been a part of some of their training programs and I very much disagree with a lot of what they teach!!!
BUT, I thing they have helped to get the 'average' non gun owner to be more positive about the RTKABA's. This strict construction doctrine many here push turns off a lot of people who are on the 'fence'. It is a matter of degree, if they can get MORE people to come to 'our' side, maybe not as far to our side as you would like, it is a start and a good thing. I have NEVER meet a person nor found an organization I COMPLEATLY agree with and probably never will. But the NRA is doing more good than bad when you consider the totality of the circumstances.
quote:Originally posted by Hunter Mag
quote:Originally posted by wpage
NRA has its warts...
But it still is the best political tool we have to fight the powers that be against the 2nd amendment.
If sleeping with the enemy is the best tool we have it's over.
BTW it's been over for a while now, with the near complete circumvention of the BOR to this day. Not only the 2A but all rights to privacy too.
The icing is being spread on the cake as we speak and to most that is perfectly fine as long as they don't cancel dancing with the stars,american idol ect,ect,.....[:(][xx(]
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
Marc,
I agree but I guess the 'twerp' is the one calling the shots.
To all of you who are bad mouthing the NRA a question.
Is it your believe the NRA has done NOTHING, ZERO, to assist those who support the RTKABA's???[?]
There I fixed it![;)]
Can't speak for Mark, but I will say this. If they are my advocate for my second amendment right, who is my opponent? Cause they sure look to be on the same side to me. One wants to control me personally. The other wants to control what guns I have access to, when, and why. Can you determine which is who?
If they, the NRA, have done anything. IF. They have had an indirect positive influence on some people. Since they do a fine job at training folks in the safe use of firearms, having folks who are well trained in the use of that force, instead of bumbling though it and potentially accidentally killing themselves... that could be viewed as a positive, IMO. Some others are marginally made aware that the second amendment is existent, by the NRA. That's about it though, so far as I can tell.
Actually I see it different than you. I have been a part of some of their training programs and I very much disagree with a lot of what they teach!!!
BUT, I thing they have helped to get the 'average' non gun owner to be more positive about the RTKABA's. This strict construction doctrine many here push turns off a lot of people who are on the 'fence'. It is a matter of degree, if they can get MORE people to come to 'our' side, maybe not as far to our side as you would like, it is a start and a good thing. I have NEVER meet a person nor found an organization I COMPLEATLY agree with and probably never will. But the NRA is doing more good than bad when you consider the totality of the circumstances.
Well, now that you've knocked down my one and only positive, that seriously puts a damper on the highlighted, doesn't it.
Some will die in hot pursuit
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
The NRA puts a more moderate face on the RTKABA's than you and some others here would like, me included, but they do play a positive role in the PR area when it comes to 'gun owners'. They recruit many 'new' people into the cause and MANY of them take a more strict constructionist view than they do, as many here do. That does not mean they, the NRA, are the enemy, IT MEANS THEY TAKE A DIFFERENT APPROCH THAN SOME HERE WOULD LIKE. Once we get them 'off the fence' we can then try and educate them better, but not by telling them the NRA is the ENEMY.
Some here need to grow up, and stop acting like the play ground bully!!![;)] That will only drive people away and they will think you have less creditability than Ron Paul!!![;)]
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
The NRA puts a more moderate face on the RTKABA's than you and some others here would like, me included, but they do play a positive role in the PR area when it comes to 'gun owners'. They recruit many 'new' people into the cause and MANY of them take a more strict constructionist view than they do, as many here do. That does not mean they, the NRA, are the enemy, IT MEANS THEY TAKE A DIFFERENT APPROCH THAN SOME HERE WOULD LIKE. Once we get them 'off the fence' we can then try and educate them better, but not by telling them the NRA is the ENEMY.
Some here need to grow up, and stop acting like the play ground bully!!![;)] That will only drive people away and they will think you have less creditability than Ron Paul!!![;)]
Without agreeing that the tactics you describe are being used by folks here, I totally disagree that that tactic doesn't work, and only sends folks to the other side. Furthermore, even if it does send them to the other side, what difference does that make? If they're teamed up with the NRA they are already ON the other side of gun rights.
Some will die in hot pursuit
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
The NRA puts a more moderate face on the RTKABA's than you and some others here would like, me included, but they do play a positive role in the PR area when it comes to 'gun owners'. They recruit many 'new' people into the cause and MANY of them take a more strict constructionist view than they do, as many here do. That does not mean they, the NRA, are the enemy, IT MEANS THEY TAKE A DIFFERENT APPROCH THAN SOME HERE WOULD LIKE. Once we get them 'off the fence' we can then try and educate them better, but not by telling them the NRA is the ENEMY.
Some here need to grow up, and stop acting like the play ground bully!!![;)] That will only drive people away and they will think you have less creditability than Ron Paul!!![;)]
Without agreeing that the tactics you describe are being used by folks here, I totally disagree that that tactic doesn't work, and only sends folks to the other side. Furthermore, even if it does send them to the other side, what difference does that make? If they're teamed up with the NRA they are already ON the other side of gun rights.
Jim,.....I guess I understand what you are saying, but can't say that I personally agree with it. Different circumstances apply.
I was not introduced to firearms and the RTKBA by the NRA. That was done by family.
I joined the NRA blindly years later, thinking it was my 'duty' to belong per se.
I didn't do any research, and it was years later that I started to see the negative side of what they were doing. Once that became apparent, I left, and will NEVER go back unless they were to totally change one day.
I'm not holding my breath BTW.
Maybe,.......just MAYBE, there have been some folks introduced to firearms, and the RTKBA by the NRA, but I doubt they would be in high numbers.
Your premise that once introduced, they will investigate and try to change things from within is pie in the sky IMHO.
Most NRA people are rabid supporters, and after drinking the kool-aid, believe the NRA can do no wrong.
That is my opinion on the subject.[:)]
"Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here." - William Shatner
quote:Originally posted by Marc1301
Jim,.....I guess I understand what you are saying, but can't say that I personally agree with it. Different circumstances apply.
I was not introduced to firearms and the RTKBA by the NRA. That was done by family.
I joined the NRA blindly years later, thinking it was my 'duty' to belong per se.
I didn't do any research, and it was years later that I started to see the negative side of what they were doing. Once that became apparent, I left, and will NEVER go back unless they were to totally change one day.
I'm not holding my breath BTW.
Maybe,.......just MAYBE, there have been some folks introduced to firearms, and the RTKBA by the NRA, but I doubt they would be in high numbers.
Your premise that once introduced, they will investigate and try to change things from within is pie in the sky IMHO.
Most NRA people are rabid supporters, and after drinking the kool-aid, believe the NRA can do no wrong.
That is my opinion on the subject.[:)]
Marc,
Times they are a changing, and not for the better. I too was introduced to guns and there use from as far back as I can remember. I grew up in rural America where guns were 'tools' and used for recreation so I did not 'need' the NRA or any other organization to 'bring' me to the use of guns. But in today's world, which is much more urban, many people who have in interest in this subject look to others, friends, relatives and etc. for info but many times the only way they get training and introduction to shooting is through organizations like the NRA (and others). I do not agree with MUCH of what the NRA as done in the area of compromise but I don't consider them ALL bad and I certainly don't consider them the 'enemy'! The enemy are the progressive extremists like the current administration and those who support this dictator in chief.[:(!]
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
The NRA puts a more moderate face on the RTKABA's than you and some others here would like, me included, but they do play a positive role in the PR area when it comes to 'gun owners'. They recruit many 'new' people into the cause and MANY of them take a more strict constructionist view than they do, as many here do. That does not mean they, the NRA, are the enemy, IT MEANS THEY TAKE A DIFFERENT APPROCH THAN SOME HERE WOULD LIKE. Once we get them 'off the fence' we can then try and educate them better, but not by telling them the NRA is the ENEMY.
Some here need to grow up, and stop acting like the play ground bully!!![;)] That will only drive people away and they will think you have less creditability than Ron Paul!!![;)]
Without agreeing that the tactics you describe are being used by folks here, I totally disagree that that tactic doesn't work, and only sends folks to the other side. Furthermore, even if it does send them to the other side, what difference does that make? If they're teamed up with the NRA they are already ON the other side of gun rights.
Your response proves my point. Thank you![8D]
And what point would that be? You don't seem to have one.
Some will die in hot pursuit
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
The point is, you and many here, have a very closed mind and are full of hate and discontent which is a real 'turn off' to those we are trying to convince that gun ownership is good. Many progressives call the NRA the enemy. They are extremists, are you an extremist also???[?]
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
The point is, you and many here, have a very closed mind and are full of hate and discontent which is a real 'turn off' to those we are trying to convince that gun ownership is good. Many progressives call the NRA the enemy. They are extremists, are you an extremist also???[?]
And here I thought we lived in a Republic not a Democracy, hmm. I guess I will just have to reread the Constitution again.
quote:Originally posted by RTKBA
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
The point is, you and many here, have a very closed mind and are full of hate and discontent which is a real 'turn off' to those we are trying to convince that gun ownership is good. Many progressives call the NRA the enemy. They are extremists, are you an extremist also???[?]
And here I thought we lived in a Republic not a Democracy, hmm. I guess I will just have to reread the Constitution again.
If you can snap your fingers and 'make it so' go for it. If not come back to reality and work with us to get our freedoms back! It will be a slow, aggravating process, but it will take ALL of us to do. In other words, small steps, the NRA is a part of this. You feel they are sell out because they are not moving as fast as you would like and not doing things exactly the way you think they should, we get it! But to call them the 'enemy' is totally illogical!!![V]
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
quote:Originally posted by RTKBA
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
The point is, you and many here, have a very closed mind and are full of hate and discontent which is a real 'turn off' to those we are trying to convince that gun ownership is good. Many progressives call the NRA the enemy. They are extremists, are you an extremist also???[?]
And here I thought we lived in a Republic not a Democracy, hmm. I guess I will just have to reread the Constitution again.
If you can snap your fingers and 'make it so' go for it. If not come back to reality and work with us to get our freedoms back! It will be a slow, aggravating process, but it will take ALL of us to do. In other words, small steps, the NRA is a part of this. You feel they are sell out because they are not moving as fast as you would like and not doing things exactly the way you think they should, we get it! But to call them the 'enemy' is totally illogical!!![V]
Good lord, Jim...
One cannot adopt a lost position and logically attempt to win back 'freedoms'. You have already conceded them as lost.
Secondly, who gives a flying ***** if some people get their feelers hurt or are turned off by the simple and factual claiming of a fundamental liberty? Any who do are part of the problem, not the solution.
It will certainly NOT take 'all' of us to restore the Republic. There are many who you seem to call allies, that work against any possibility of doing so and for a man who constantly speaks about accepting 'reality', this is silliness of the highest order and an abject failure to see and accept that very 'reality' he preaches about.
You are correct that the NRA is 'part of this'. They play a direct part and role in subverting the text and intent of Amendment II and they have done so, with full knowledge, since at least the 1920's.
Do some research for God's sake.
For anyone to believe that adopting and supporting an organization that is dedicated to advancing and maintaining the 'privilege' for citizens to own and use firearms, while at the same time openly WORKING TO codify regulation, control, prohibitions, restrictions, prior restraint ect., into law at the federal and state level, all the while, insinuating themselves into the preeminent lobbying and licensing/training position in an incestuous partnership with government, well, your version of 'reality' and of what is an 'ally' is a mite-skewed, as I see it.
How any man can fail to see that the position of liberty and fundamental constitutionally-enumerated rights must be claimed and held, rather than willingly adopting that they are lost, and subsequently believing that such a fundamental right will EVER be recognized by government once it is conceded to be abrogated, is, well, as far from reality as it is possible to be.
Jim, there will NEVER be any adoption of your position by a constitutionalist, just as one with your beliefs will NEVER adopt the position of liberty and constitutionalism.
This is true in the field of rights, of voting, of governance and of any related topic.
The divide is at the opposing Ethic of 'Collectivism vs. Individualism', when it is boiled down to its lowest possible level. Fact is, it always has been, but most don't even know it.
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
The point is, you and many here, have a very closed mind and are full of hate and discontent which is a real 'turn off' to those we are trying to convince that gun ownership is good. Many progressives call the NRA the enemy. They are extremists, are you an extremist also???[?]
If I am full of hate, it is because I feel betrayed by the NRA. I, like Mark mentioned above, was introduced by family and then felt pressure to "do something for gun rights" and joined the NRA. Then, lo and behold, they're working for gun control under the auspices of being a gun rights advocate? I despise that to my core. If you enjoy the hypocrisy, I wonder why that is. I doubt it's a matter of "strange bedfellows".
Makes me sick.[xx(]
Some will die in hot pursuit
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
If you can snap your fingers and 'make it so' go for it. If not come back to reality and work with us to get our freedoms back! It will be a slow, aggravating process, but it will take ALL of us to do. In other words, small steps, the NRA is a part of this. You feel they are sell out because they are not moving as fast as you would like and not doing things exactly the way you think they should, we get it! But to call them the 'enemy' is totally illogical!!![V]
A large misconception here, Jim.
It is not that the NRA is 'not moving fast enough'. Many NRA positions factually set back the movement towards actual individual rights to keep and bear arms by substituting legislation that creates the power of the state to license, register and regulate.
One only need review the history of the McDonald decision to understand the motive of the NRA.
Alan Gura and The Second Amendment Foundation set out to win the case using the Privileges and Immunities (i.e. Individual Rights) Clause of the 14th Amendment. The NRA steps in and testifies for the use of the Due Process (State Legislative Permission) Clause.
Why?
The argument was that it would be easier to get a positive decision. While this may be true, it changed the 2nd Amendment from a guarantee of a right of the individual citizen to a toothless demand upon State and Local Governments that they can license, restrict and regulate all they want so long as they do not completely deny access to firearms from their citizens.
The 'Not Fast Enough' argument is false.
The NRA actively works against Individual Right stated int he 2nd Amendment by lobbying for legislative privileges.
Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.
Look at like this guys.
You are gong the wrong way down the road at 60+ mph. Your goal is go the right/other way. If you simply crank the steering wheel hard and try to turn around you will end up in a big wreck.
You MUST first slow the vehicle down going the wrong way, then when it is stopped you MUST carefully turn around and then, and only then can you go down the right road.
You all need to stop jerking the wheel or you are going to end up in a big wreck!!!!![;)]
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
Look at like this guys.
You are gong the wrong way down the road at 60+ mph. Your goal is go the right/other way. If you simply crank the steering wheel hard and try to turn around you will end up in a big wreck.
You MUST first slow the vehicle down going the wrong way, then when it is stopped you MUST carefully turn around and then, and only then can you go down the right road.
You all need to stop jerking the wheel or you are going to end up in a big wreck!!!!![;)]
LOL you're a hoot Jim.
What you fail to realize is that vehicle wrecked a long time ago. And while some of us got out and are trying to fix the vehicle people like your self decided to keep walking down that wrong road. Good luck someday I hope you figure out how to get back to the right road.
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
Look at like this guys.
You are gong the wrong way down the road at 60+ mph. Your goal is go the right/other way. If you simply crank the steering wheel hard and try to turn around you will end up in a big wreck.
You MUST first slow the vehicle down going the wrong way, then when it is stopped you MUST carefully turn around and then, and only then can you go down the right road.
You all need to stop jerking the wheel or you are going to end up in a big wreck!!!!![;)]
Actually, we're the ones going the right way, you're the one going the wrong way, and jerking the wheel as you go. As I see it.
Some will die in hot pursuit
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
quote:Originally posted by RTKBA
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
Look at like this guys.
You are gong the wrong way down the road at 60+ mph. Your goal is go the right/other way. If you simply crank the steering wheel hard and try to turn around you will end up in a big wreck.
You MUST first slow the vehicle down going the wrong way, then when it is stopped you MUST carefully turn around and then, and only then can you go down the right road.
You all need to stop jerking the wheel or you are going to end up in a big wreck!!!!![;)]
LOL you're a hoot Jim.
What you fail to realize is that vehicle wrecked a long time ago. And while some of us got out and are trying to fix the vehicle people like your self decided to keep walking down that wrong road. Good luck someday I hope you figure out how to get back to the right road.
So to you all is lost, the wreck has happened and we are all dead ! I feel sorry for you. Some of us don't give up that easy!!!![;)]
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
Look at like this guys.
You are gong the wrong way down the road at 60+ mph. Your goal is go the right/other way. If you simply crank the steering wheel hard and try to turn around you will end up in a big wreck.
You MUST first slow the vehicle down going the wrong way, then when it is stopped you MUST carefully turn around and then, and only then can you go down the right road.
You all need to stop jerking the wheel or you are going to end up in a big wreck!!!!![;)]
Actually, we're the ones going the right way, you're the one going the wrong way, and jerking the wheel as you go. As I see it.
So you are gong the right way, what are your accomplishments so far. I have not seen you cause any positive changes in the current laws or environment as a result of your stand on this! The only thing I (and many others) see is some bitter, closed mined, folks who seem to have nothing positive to help in this fight. Only criticism and attempts to hinder and attack those who really do give a chitt and work to get things changed.[V]
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
Look at like this guys.
You are gong the wrong way down the road at 60+ mph. Your goal is go the right/other way. If you simply crank the steering wheel hard and try to turn around you will end up in a big wreck.
You MUST first slow the vehicle down going the wrong way, then when it is stopped you MUST carefully turn around and then, and only then can you go down the right road.
You all need to stop jerking the wheel or you are going to end up in a big wreck!!!!![;)]
How is the NRA slowing down the vehicle, Jim?
At best, they are maintaining speed and telling us they are looking for an off-ramp, while deliberately missing them whenever they present themselves. One need only reference Heller, McDonald, support for national CCW, support for NCIS, continuing with the 'right to carry holder', and 'law abiding gunowner' mantra.
There is no slowing down at present. Only an aggressive legislative agenda designed to put more laws on the books. Look at GOA and SAF. These two organizations work to strike down laws that exist, not add to the existing maze.
Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.
Since the last time I was here, almost 3 years past I see that some level of give and take is observed. I refuse to rise to the barbs of trolls. Those whom are Pro Gun Impostors. I think that it's pretty well established and known Common Knowledge (Many types and different
levels thereof) that The Propaganda Meisters for the Globalist Cabal of which Obammy and
his Aniti-Semite Illuminati Master(s) not the least of which is George Soros, (TRAITOR to all
Yehudim ) of whom I number myself to all who stand with Eretz Yisrael here (a big Chag Chanukkah to all of ya'll from South Carolina!!! ) THEY the establishment OBOTS (those whom
admit they voted from him show the first signs of recovery, like the 9 steps to recovery from
alcoholism) are always going to show up places like here and sow seeds of discord. They are masters of spin and can make up reams of false data to suit their agenda. TO misinform and thereby divide and conquer.
Thomas
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
Look at like this guys.
You are gong the wrong way down the road at 60+ mph. Your goal is go the right/other way. If you simply crank the steering wheel hard and try to turn around you will end up in a big wreck.
You MUST first slow the vehicle down going the wrong way, then when it is stopped you MUST carefully turn around and then, and only then can you go down the right road.
You all need to stop jerking the wheel or you are going to end up in a big wreck!!!!![;)]
Actually, we're the ones going the right way, you're the one going the wrong way, and jerking the wheel as you go. As I see it.
So you are gong the right way, what are your accomplishments so far. I have not seen you cause any positive changes in the current laws or environment as a result of your stand on this! The only thing I (and many others) see is some bitter, closed mined, folks who seem to have nothing positive to help in this fight. Only criticism and attempts to hinder and attack those who really do give a chitt and work to get things changed.[V]
I notice that whenever I point to how someone is pedaling in the wrong direction, their response is to say "well, what have you done". Well, for one, I stopped pedaling in the wrong direction. Once you stop doing that, then we can talk.
Some will die in hot pursuit
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
quote:Originally posted by RTKBA
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
Look at like this guys.
You are gong the wrong way down the road at 60+ mph. Your goal is go the right/other way. If you simply crank the steering wheel hard and try to turn around you will end up in a big wreck.
You MUST first slow the vehicle down going the wrong way, then when it is stopped you MUST carefully turn around and then, and only then can you go down the right road.
You all need to stop jerking the wheel or you are going to end up in a big wreck!!!!![;)]
LOL you're a hoot Jim.
What you fail to realize is that vehicle wrecked a long time ago. And while some of us got out and are trying to fix the vehicle people like your self decided to keep walking down that wrong road. Good luck someday I hope you figure out how to get back to the right road.
So to you all is lost, the wreck has happened and we are all dead ! I feel sorry for you. Some of us don't give up that easy!!!![;)]
Perhaps I gave you too much credit, it happens. That car wrecked the moment we stopped believing in and trusting the Constitution. And while some of us decided to take a hard look at this country and where we are headed some like yourself decided to continue down that wrong road.
Take people Like LT496 and Don McManus. Now I don't mean to speak for them but I think they will agree the way to fix this country and get it headed down the right road is through education. Teaching people about the Constitution the founding principals and pushing for Constitutional adherence.
In another thread you claim to be a man of logic, able to set your emotions aside. So I will ask you to do that now. Set your emotions aside and answer this question logically.
In your right hand you want the local, State and Federal government to recognize an absolute right yet, In your left hand you believe and support an organization that barters away that right on every front. How do you expect that diametric view to come together?
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
Look at like this guys.
You are gong the wrong way down the road at 60+ mph. Your goal is go the right/other way. If you simply crank the steering wheel hard and try to turn around you will end up in a big wreck.
You MUST first slow the vehicle down going the wrong way, then when it is stopped you MUST carefully turn around and then, and only then can you go down the right road.
You all need to stop jerking the wheel or you are going to end up in a big wreck!!!!![;)]
Actually, we're the ones going the right way, you're the one going the wrong way, and jerking the wheel as you go. As I see it.
So you are gong the right way, what are your accomplishments so far. I have not seen you cause any positive changes in the current laws or environment as a result of your stand on this! The only thing I (and many others) see is some bitter, closed mined, folks who seem to have nothing positive to help in this fight. Only criticism and attempts to hinder and attack those who really do give a chitt and work to get things changed.[V]
I notice that whenever I point to how someone is pedaling in the wrong direction, their response is to say "well, what have you done". Well, for one, I stopped pedaling in the wrong direction. Once you stop doing that, then we can talk.
So your actions are self satisfying but do nothing to help the rest of us who believe there is still a fight worth fighting for ALL of us!!! As I said before, I will not change your mind or any others who have closed their minds to any other position other than their own. The various pro gun organizations have steped in to support many folks who have been wronged individually and collectively, but to those with your believes they have not helped in any way. The bottom line is 'any compromise' in what you believe is wrong and those who do not do things as you think they should are wrong and the 'enemy'.
To me the 'wreck' occurs when we have a progressive dictator in chief, as we do now, who has appointed a Supreme Court of progressive judges, and the progressives have both houses of congress. Then we will be forced to use violence to defend our RTKABA'S. Until that occurs I will maintain my grasp on reality and do what I can to try and get this 'turned around' and going the right way with out violence.
I am sorry so many here have given up the fight!!![V]
quote:Originally posted by RTKBA
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
quote:Originally posted by RTKBA
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
Look at like this guys.
You are gong the wrong way down the road at 60+ mph. Your goal is go the right/other way. If you simply crank the steering wheel hard and try to turn around you will end up in a big wreck.
You MUST first slow the vehicle down going the wrong way, then when it is stopped you MUST carefully turn around and then, and only then can you go down the right road.
You all need to stop jerking the wheel or you are going to end up in a big wreck!!!!![;)]
LOL you're a hoot Jim.
What you fail to realize is that vehicle wrecked a long time ago. And while some of us got out and are trying to fix the vehicle people like your self decided to keep walking down that wrong road. Good luck someday I hope you figure out how to get back to the right road.
So to you all is lost, the wreck has happened and we are all dead ! I feel sorry for you. Some of us don't give up that easy!!!![;)]
Perhaps I gave you too much credit, it happens. That car wrecked the moment we stopped believing in and trusting the Constitution. And while some of us decided to take a hard look at this country and where we are headed some like yourself decided to continue down that wrong road.
Take people Like LT496 and Don McManus. Now I don't mean to speak for them but I think they will agree the way to fix this country and get it headed down the right road is through education. Teaching people about the Constitution the founding principals and pushing for Constitutional adherence.
In another thread you claim to be a man of logic, able to set your emotions aside. So I will ask you to do that now. Set your emotions aside and answer this question logically.
In your right hand you want the local, State and Federal government to recognize an absolute right yet, In your left hand you believe and support an organization that barters away that right on every front. How do you expect that diametric view to come together?
I think I answered in the post above. But my question to you is, if the wreck has all ready occurred, what are your plans to fix it???[?]
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
quote:Originally posted by RTKBA
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
quote:Originally posted by RTKBA
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
Look at like this guys.
You are gong the wrong way down the road at 60+ mph. Your goal is go the right/other way. If you simply crank the steering wheel hard and try to turn around you will end up in a big wreck.
You MUST first slow the vehicle down going the wrong way, then when it is stopped you MUST carefully turn around and then, and only then can you go down the right road.
You all need to stop jerking the wheel or you are going to end up in a big wreck!!!!![;)]
LOL you're a hoot Jim.
What you fail to realize is that vehicle wrecked a long time ago. And while some of us got out and are trying to fix the vehicle people like your self decided to keep walking down that wrong road. Good luck someday I hope you figure out how to get back to the right road.
So to you all is lost, the wreck has happened and we are all dead ! I feel sorry for you. Some of us don't give up that easy!!!![;)]
Perhaps I gave you too much credit, it happens. That car wrecked the moment we stopped believing in and trusting the Constitution. And while some of us decided to take a hard look at this country and where we are headed some like yourself decided to continue down that wrong road.
Take people Like LT496 and Don McManus. Now I don't mean to speak for them but I think they will agree the way to fix this country and get it headed down the right road is through education. Teaching people about the Constitution the founding principals and pushing for Constitutional adherence.
In another thread you claim to be a man of logic, able to set your emotions aside. So I will ask you to do that now. Set your emotions aside and answer this question logically.
In your right hand you want the local, State and Federal government to recognize an absolute right yet, In your left hand you believe and support an organization that barters away that right on every front. How do you expect that diametric view to come together?
I think I answered in the post above. But my question to you is, if the wreck has all ready occurred, what are your plans to fix it???[?]
Jim I answered your question before you asked it, you just need to reread my post. I looked for and couldn't find your answer to my question, But I will admit my question might be a tad complicated. So let's try this one instead. What exactly are you fighting for?
quote:Jim I answered your question before you asked it, you just need to reread my post. I looked for and couldn't find your answer to my question, But I will admit my question might be a tad complicated. So let's try this one instead. What exactly are you fighting for?
It seems to be a fight for government granted permission and for anti-Amendment II prohibitions, controls or dare I say it, 'infringements' on the fundamental constitutional God-given right to keep and bear arms, which are expressly against the absolute prohibition ON GOVERNMENT from doing so in the text of Amendment II.
Jim wants prior restraint/control/prohibition/infringement, by government, on firearms and weapons that he either fears or that he doesn't want others to have, for whatever the reason.
Hate to be so blunt, but then, that's the way it is, as I have seen it.
Well if you have been on the site for awhile you would already know the answer to your question.
In the posts above I have answered your question about what the NRA and other organizations have done to support the RTKABA's.
As for me, I have stated my beliefs in no uncertain terms MANY times here. But because I only agree with about 98% of what you do I am the enemy also.[;)] As I said above, I know what I say will have no affect on you and many here as they have closed their minds to everything but what they want to hear.
Happy Christmas and a Merry New Year, All of God's blessing on you and yours, from our Sweet Home Alabama to where ever you all may be!!!![^]
Comments
quote:Originally posted by Marc1301
I love the NRA,......due to them, once again I am being threatened with non-renewal of my membership to the range I have belonged to for years.
Went through this before, and the current Treasurer took care of it.
He is gone now, and the new one insists on 100% membership of the primary members. Before they accepted GOA, but not this guy.
Still going around with them, but regardless of what happens I will NOT join the NRA again. The bummer is I will not be able to shoot anywhere near as much as I have in the past.[xx(]
Sorry for going off topic.
I agree what they are doing to you is wrong, BUT it is a private club is it not???
They have the right to set the qualifications to join/belong do they not? Do you believe in their right to do so?[?]
Sure I do,.......as you said it's a private club.
I just find it odd that they would change back and forth, especially since I have been a member for many years.
My money has helped to support the range, not the NRA.
I have also donated a lot of my time in doing work out there for free. Only about 5% of the members pitch in when things need to be done.
This is simply one of those things that happens when you get some putz in a position of 'power' that has never had any before. As I said,......the previous president and treasurer both are bugging this guy to death about driving me away. They understand my conviction, believe it or not.
They also know that I belong to the GOA, and my beliefs about the second.
It's all about a self-important little twerp with 'small man syndrome' IMHO.[;)]
quote:Originally posted by lt496
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
So apparently lt believes anti gunners. Like I said, I'm not sure who the bigger idiot is.
I could post something saying that I took a poll and 85% of gunbroker forum members believe me. I could even show the poll if I wanted to. Doesn't mean that it's accurate or true.
Personally, I don't participate in any polls. I'm sure that many that do, participate many times as well. And (this is going to be a shocker lt) they probably don't all tell the truth. There could be gun hating PETA lovers participating in the poll that claim to be NRA members just to boost the numbers.
Remember, this is the internet; nobody tells the truth.
I simply know for a flat-fact that many, if not most, NRA members support various forms of Anti-Amendment II gun-control/infringement...just like you, for example.
Tough pill to swallow, it seems.
And there are a lot more NON NRA members that believe in gun control. The fact still remains that you believe what the anti gunner is telling you about who supports him.
And just so you can be even more pissed off and think I'm solely responsible for the destruction of the nation, I believe that some reasonable gun control laws are necessary until we get our justice system fixed.
Go ahead. Get your flame on. If you keep bringing this up, you may accidentally stumble on an intelligent point. But I won't hold my breath for that day.
You really don't get it.
Yes, the anti-Constitution NRA members for gun-control, coupled with the other anti-Constitution non-NRA members, join and make a powerful force; one that has directly led to the abrogation of Amendment II.
As to believing an anti-gunner, even a blind hog finds an acorn now and then. In this case, the information about the NRA and its member's support for gun-control has been long known by me.
This poll/survey merely pointed to that simple, long known and irrefutable fact.
You seem to be avoiding or attempting to negate that fact, don'tcha.[:)]
As you may or may not learn, it is impossible to defend the indefensible. A hint......you are attempting it.
As to you outing yourself as a gun-controller, this too has been obvious and know by your previous postings.
Of course you are not 'solely' responsible, you are merely another of tens of millions of collectivist anti-Constitution gerbils, busily gnawing away at the foundations of the Republic.
You and those millions of others just like you ARE responsible for facilitating the Republics destruction.
It really is that simple, whether you choose to admit it or not. It is what it is.
quote:Originally posted by lt496
quote:Originally posted by legear
I get sick of this topic. It comes up every few days and goes nowhere and changes no minds.
I wish it was treated like religious topics
I bet you do.
NRA member or supporter, are you? Or do you merely believe that some 'common-sense' gun-control is okay?
My post has nothing to do with me being in the NRA or not, Im saying this topics comes up every few days with the same trolls showing how they hate NRA.
This NRA hate looks like the occupy tards that just want something to be * about.
We get it! You dont like them.
Go start your own group.
So, now that you got that out of your system. You are an NRA Member and/or supporter of 'reasonable or common sense' gun-control, aren'tcha?[:)]
And just a hint...yes, your post has to do with the NRA because you felt obligated to jump into a thread about the NRA and expressed your displeasure.
fact is, if you knew or agreed that the NRA is a quisling, anti-Amendment II org, you would not opine in the negative. Your comments point to something otherwise, don't they?
Come on, you can admit it. Own up to it, wear it proudly.[:o)]
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
quote:Originally posted by lt496
quote:Originally posted by calrugerfan
So apparently lt believes anti gunners. Like I said, I'm not sure who the bigger idiot is.
I could post something saying that I took a poll and 85% of gunbroker forum members believe me. I could even show the poll if I wanted to. Doesn't mean that it's accurate or true.
Personally, I don't participate in any polls. I'm sure that many that do, participate many times as well. And (this is going to be a shocker lt) they probably don't all tell the truth. There could be gun hating PETA lovers participating in the poll that claim to be NRA members just to boost the numbers.
Remember, this is the internet; nobody tells the truth.
I simply know for a flat-fact that many, if not most, NRA members support various forms of Anti-Amendment II gun-control/infringement...just like you, for example.
Tough pill to swallow, it seems.
And there are a lot more NON NRA members that believe in gun control. The fact still remains that you believe what the anti gunner is telling you about who supports him.
And just so you can be even more pissed off and think I'm solely responsible for the destruction of the nation, I believe that some reasonable gun control laws are necessary until we get our justice system fixed.
Go ahead. Get your flame on. If you keep bringing this up, you may accidentally stumble on an intelligent point. But I won't hold my breath for that day.
You really don't get it.
Yes, the anti-Constitution NRA members for gun-control, coupled with the other anti-Constitution non-NRA members, join and make a powerful force; one that has directly led to the abrogation of Amendment II.
As to believing an anti-gunner, even a blind hog finds an acorn now and then. In this case, the information about the NRA and its member's support for gun-control has been long known by me.
This poll/survey merely pointed to that simple, long known and irrefutable fact.
You seem to be avoiding or attempting to negate that fact, don'tcha.[:)]
As you may or may not learn, it is impossible to defend the indefensible. A hint......you are attempting it.
As to you outing yourself as a gun-controller, this too has been obvious and know by your previous postings.
Of course you are not 'solely' responsible, you are merely another of tens of millions of collectivist anti-Constitution gerbils, busily gnawing away at the foundations of the Republic.You and those millions of others just like you ARE responsible for facilitating the Republics destruction.
It really is that simple, whether you choose to admit it or not. It is what it is.
I like that one![;)][:D]
NRA has its warts...
But it still is the best political tool we have to fight the powers that be against the 2nd amendment.
The NRA is certainly fighting hard against the second amendment, I'll grant you that.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
NRA has its warts...
But it still is the best political tool we have to fight the powers that be against the 2nd amendment.
If sleeping with the enemy is the best tool we have it's over.
BTW it's been over for a while now, with the near complete circumvention of the BOR to this day. Not only the 2A but all rights to privacy too.
The icing is being spread on the cake as we speak and to most that is perfectly fine as long as they don't cancel dancing with the stars,american idol ect,ect,.....[:(][xx(]
I agree but I guess the 'twerp' is the one calling the shots.
To all of you who are bad mouthing the NRA a question.
Is it your believe the NRA has done NOTHING, ZERO, to assist those who support the RTKABA's???[?]
There I fixed it![;)]
It is a well written document that was designed to protect people and guarantee basic freedom, PERIOD!! [:p]
Marc,
I agree but I guess the 'twerp' is the one calling the shots.
To all of you who are bad mouthing the NRA a question.
Is it your believe the NRA has done NOTHING, ZERO, to assist those who support the RTKABA's???[?]
There I fixed it![;)]
In a word: Yes.
The NRA has done a lot to preserve people's access to firearms through the acceptance of government control and the promoting of legislation that, while superficially preserves said access, factually codifies that Government power of control.
None of this has promoted the recognition of an individual right. La Perri?r and pals would have us believe that a law on the books allowing the law-abiding citizen to possess a firearm, provided he passes government scrutiny, is a recognition of a natural right codified in Amendment II. I continue to be amazed appalled at how many people have submitted to this belief system.
Brad Steele
Marc,
I agree but I guess the 'twerp' is the one calling the shots.
To all of you who are bad mouthing the NRA a question.
Is it your believe the NRA has done NOTHING, ZERO, to assist those who support the RTKABA's???[?]
There I fixed it![;)]
Can't speak for Mark, but I will say this. If they are my advocate for my second amendment right, who is my opponent? Cause they sure look to be on the same side to me. One wants to control me personally. The other wants to control what guns I have access to, when, and why. Can you determine which is who?
If they, the NRA, have done anything. IF. They have had an indirect positive influence on some people. Since they do a fine job at training folks in the safe use of firearms, having folks who are well trained in the use of that force, instead of bumbling though it and potentially accidentally killing themselves... that could be viewed as a positive, IMO. Some others are marginally made aware that the second amendment is existent, by the NRA. That's about it though, so far as I can tell.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
Marc,
I agree but I guess the 'twerp' is the one calling the shots.
To all of you who are bad mouthing the NRA a question.
Is it your believe the NRA has done NOTHING, ZERO, to assist those who support the RTKABA's???[?]
There I fixed it![;)]
Can't speak for Mark, but I will say this. If they are my advocate for my second amendment right, who is my opponent? Cause they sure look to be on the same side to me. One wants to control me personally. The other wants to control what guns I have access to, when, and why. Can you determine which is who?
If they, the NRA, have done anything. IF. They have had an indirect positive influence on some people. Since they do a fine job at training folks in the safe use of firearms, having folks who are well trained in the use of that force, instead of bumbling though it and potentially accidentally killing themselves... that could be viewed as a positive, IMO. Some others are marginally made aware that the second amendment is existent, by the NRA. That's about it though, so far as I can tell.
Actually I see it different than you. I have been a part of some of their training programs and I very much disagree with a lot of what they teach!!!
BUT, I thing they have helped to get the 'average' non gun owner to be more positive about the RTKABA's. This strict construction doctrine many here push turns off a lot of people who are on the 'fence'. It is a matter of degree, if they can get MORE people to come to 'our' side, maybe not as far to our side as you would like, it is a start and a good thing. I have NEVER meet a person nor found an organization I COMPLEATLY agree with and probably never will. But the NRA is doing more good than bad when you consider the totality of the circumstances.
quote:Originally posted by wpage
NRA has its warts...
But it still is the best political tool we have to fight the powers that be against the 2nd amendment.
If sleeping with the enemy is the best tool we have it's over.
BTW it's been over for a while now, with the near complete circumvention of the BOR to this day. Not only the 2A but all rights to privacy too.
The icing is being spread on the cake as we speak and to most that is perfectly fine as long as they don't cancel dancing with the stars,american idol ect,ect,.....[:(][xx(]
X-ring right there Hunter Mag.
Also shows the sorry state of "a"merican society.
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
Marc,
I agree but I guess the 'twerp' is the one calling the shots.
To all of you who are bad mouthing the NRA a question.
Is it your believe the NRA has done NOTHING, ZERO, to assist those who support the RTKABA's???[?]
There I fixed it![;)]
Can't speak for Mark, but I will say this. If they are my advocate for my second amendment right, who is my opponent? Cause they sure look to be on the same side to me. One wants to control me personally. The other wants to control what guns I have access to, when, and why. Can you determine which is who?
If they, the NRA, have done anything. IF. They have had an indirect positive influence on some people. Since they do a fine job at training folks in the safe use of firearms, having folks who are well trained in the use of that force, instead of bumbling though it and potentially accidentally killing themselves... that could be viewed as a positive, IMO. Some others are marginally made aware that the second amendment is existent, by the NRA. That's about it though, so far as I can tell.
Actually I see it different than you. I have been a part of some of their training programs and I very much disagree with a lot of what they teach!!!
BUT, I thing they have helped to get the 'average' non gun owner to be more positive about the RTKABA's. This strict construction doctrine many here push turns off a lot of people who are on the 'fence'. It is a matter of degree, if they can get MORE people to come to 'our' side, maybe not as far to our side as you would like, it is a start and a good thing. I have NEVER meet a person nor found an organization I COMPLEATLY agree with and probably never will. But the NRA is doing more good than bad when you consider the totality of the circumstances.
Well, now that you've knocked down my one and only positive, that seriously puts a damper on the highlighted, doesn't it.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
Some here need to grow up, and stop acting like the play ground bully!!![;)] That will only drive people away and they will think you have less creditability than Ron Paul!!![;)]
The NRA puts a more moderate face on the RTKABA's than you and some others here would like, me included, but they do play a positive role in the PR area when it comes to 'gun owners'. They recruit many 'new' people into the cause and MANY of them take a more strict constructionist view than they do, as many here do. That does not mean they, the NRA, are the enemy, IT MEANS THEY TAKE A DIFFERENT APPROCH THAN SOME HERE WOULD LIKE. Once we get them 'off the fence' we can then try and educate them better, but not by telling them the NRA is the ENEMY.
Some here need to grow up, and stop acting like the play ground bully!!![;)] That will only drive people away and they will think you have less creditability than Ron Paul!!![;)]
Without agreeing that the tactics you describe are being used by folks here, I totally disagree that that tactic doesn't work, and only sends folks to the other side. Furthermore, even if it does send them to the other side, what difference does that make? If they're teamed up with the NRA they are already ON the other side of gun rights.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
The NRA puts a more moderate face on the RTKABA's than you and some others here would like, me included, but they do play a positive role in the PR area when it comes to 'gun owners'. They recruit many 'new' people into the cause and MANY of them take a more strict constructionist view than they do, as many here do. That does not mean they, the NRA, are the enemy, IT MEANS THEY TAKE A DIFFERENT APPROCH THAN SOME HERE WOULD LIKE. Once we get them 'off the fence' we can then try and educate them better, but not by telling them the NRA is the ENEMY.
Some here need to grow up, and stop acting like the play ground bully!!![;)] That will only drive people away and they will think you have less creditability than Ron Paul!!![;)]
Without agreeing that the tactics you describe are being used by folks here, I totally disagree that that tactic doesn't work, and only sends folks to the other side. Furthermore, even if it does send them to the other side, what difference does that make? If they're teamed up with the NRA they are already ON the other side of gun rights.
Your response proves my point. Thank you![8D]
I was not introduced to firearms and the RTKBA by the NRA. That was done by family.
I joined the NRA blindly years later, thinking it was my 'duty' to belong per se.
I didn't do any research, and it was years later that I started to see the negative side of what they were doing. Once that became apparent, I left, and will NEVER go back unless they were to totally change one day.
I'm not holding my breath BTW.
Maybe,.......just MAYBE, there have been some folks introduced to firearms, and the RTKBA by the NRA, but I doubt they would be in high numbers.
Your premise that once introduced, they will investigate and try to change things from within is pie in the sky IMHO.
Most NRA people are rabid supporters, and after drinking the kool-aid, believe the NRA can do no wrong.
That is my opinion on the subject.[:)]
Jim,.....I guess I understand what you are saying, but can't say that I personally agree with it. Different circumstances apply.
I was not introduced to firearms and the RTKBA by the NRA. That was done by family.
I joined the NRA blindly years later, thinking it was my 'duty' to belong per se.
I didn't do any research, and it was years later that I started to see the negative side of what they were doing. Once that became apparent, I left, and will NEVER go back unless they were to totally change one day.
I'm not holding my breath BTW.
Maybe,.......just MAYBE, there have been some folks introduced to firearms, and the RTKBA by the NRA, but I doubt they would be in high numbers.
Your premise that once introduced, they will investigate and try to change things from within is pie in the sky IMHO.
Most NRA people are rabid supporters, and after drinking the kool-aid, believe the NRA can do no wrong.
That is my opinion on the subject.[:)]
Marc,
Times they are a changing, and not for the better. I too was introduced to guns and there use from as far back as I can remember. I grew up in rural America where guns were 'tools' and used for recreation so I did not 'need' the NRA or any other organization to 'bring' me to the use of guns. But in today's world, which is much more urban, many people who have in interest in this subject look to others, friends, relatives and etc. for info but many times the only way they get training and introduction to shooting is through organizations like the NRA (and others). I do not agree with MUCH of what the NRA as done in the area of compromise but I don't consider them ALL bad and I certainly don't consider them the 'enemy'! The enemy are the progressive extremists like the current administration and those who support this dictator in chief.[:(!]
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
The NRA puts a more moderate face on the RTKABA's than you and some others here would like, me included, but they do play a positive role in the PR area when it comes to 'gun owners'. They recruit many 'new' people into the cause and MANY of them take a more strict constructionist view than they do, as many here do. That does not mean they, the NRA, are the enemy, IT MEANS THEY TAKE A DIFFERENT APPROCH THAN SOME HERE WOULD LIKE. Once we get them 'off the fence' we can then try and educate them better, but not by telling them the NRA is the ENEMY.
Some here need to grow up, and stop acting like the play ground bully!!![;)] That will only drive people away and they will think you have less creditability than Ron Paul!!![;)]
Without agreeing that the tactics you describe are being used by folks here, I totally disagree that that tactic doesn't work, and only sends folks to the other side. Furthermore, even if it does send them to the other side, what difference does that make? If they're teamed up with the NRA they are already ON the other side of gun rights.
Your response proves my point. Thank you![8D]
And what point would that be? You don't seem to have one.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
The point is, you and many here, have a very closed mind and are full of hate and discontent which is a real 'turn off' to those we are trying to convince that gun ownership is good. Many progressives call the NRA the enemy. They are extremists, are you an extremist also???[?]
And here I thought we lived in a Republic not a Democracy, hmm. I guess I will just have to reread the Constitution again.
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
The point is, you and many here, have a very closed mind and are full of hate and discontent which is a real 'turn off' to those we are trying to convince that gun ownership is good. Many progressives call the NRA the enemy. They are extremists, are you an extremist also???[?]
And here I thought we lived in a Republic not a Democracy, hmm. I guess I will just have to reread the Constitution again.
If you can snap your fingers and 'make it so' go for it. If not come back to reality and work with us to get our freedoms back! It will be a slow, aggravating process, but it will take ALL of us to do. In other words, small steps, the NRA is a part of this. You feel they are sell out because they are not moving as fast as you would like and not doing things exactly the way you think they should, we get it! But to call them the 'enemy' is totally illogical!!![V]
quote:Originally posted by RTKBA
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
The point is, you and many here, have a very closed mind and are full of hate and discontent which is a real 'turn off' to those we are trying to convince that gun ownership is good. Many progressives call the NRA the enemy. They are extremists, are you an extremist also???[?]
And here I thought we lived in a Republic not a Democracy, hmm. I guess I will just have to reread the Constitution again.
If you can snap your fingers and 'make it so' go for it. If not come back to reality and work with us to get our freedoms back! It will be a slow, aggravating process, but it will take ALL of us to do. In other words, small steps, the NRA is a part of this. You feel they are sell out because they are not moving as fast as you would like and not doing things exactly the way you think they should, we get it! But to call them the 'enemy' is totally illogical!!![V]
Good lord, Jim...
One cannot adopt a lost position and logically attempt to win back 'freedoms'. You have already conceded them as lost.
Secondly, who gives a flying ***** if some people get their feelers hurt or are turned off by the simple and factual claiming of a fundamental liberty? Any who do are part of the problem, not the solution.
It will certainly NOT take 'all' of us to restore the Republic. There are many who you seem to call allies, that work against any possibility of doing so and for a man who constantly speaks about accepting 'reality', this is silliness of the highest order and an abject failure to see and accept that very 'reality' he preaches about.
You are correct that the NRA is 'part of this'. They play a direct part and role in subverting the text and intent of Amendment II and they have done so, with full knowledge, since at least the 1920's.
Do some research for God's sake.
For anyone to believe that adopting and supporting an organization that is dedicated to advancing and maintaining the 'privilege' for citizens to own and use firearms, while at the same time openly WORKING TO codify regulation, control, prohibitions, restrictions, prior restraint ect., into law at the federal and state level, all the while, insinuating themselves into the preeminent lobbying and licensing/training position in an incestuous partnership with government, well, your version of 'reality' and of what is an 'ally' is a mite-skewed, as I see it.
How any man can fail to see that the position of liberty and fundamental constitutionally-enumerated rights must be claimed and held, rather than willingly adopting that they are lost, and subsequently believing that such a fundamental right will EVER be recognized by government once it is conceded to be abrogated, is, well, as far from reality as it is possible to be.
Jim, there will NEVER be any adoption of your position by a constitutionalist, just as one with your beliefs will NEVER adopt the position of liberty and constitutionalism.
This is true in the field of rights, of voting, of governance and of any related topic.
The divide is at the opposing Ethic of 'Collectivism vs. Individualism', when it is boiled down to its lowest possible level. Fact is, it always has been, but most don't even know it.
And so it goes.
(edit by pick, now now)
The point is, you and many here, have a very closed mind and are full of hate and discontent which is a real 'turn off' to those we are trying to convince that gun ownership is good. Many progressives call the NRA the enemy. They are extremists, are you an extremist also???[?]
If I am full of hate, it is because I feel betrayed by the NRA. I, like Mark mentioned above, was introduced by family and then felt pressure to "do something for gun rights" and joined the NRA. Then, lo and behold, they're working for gun control under the auspices of being a gun rights advocate? I despise that to my core. If you enjoy the hypocrisy, I wonder why that is. I doubt it's a matter of "strange bedfellows".
Makes me sick.[xx(]
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
If you can snap your fingers and 'make it so' go for it. If not come back to reality and work with us to get our freedoms back! It will be a slow, aggravating process, but it will take ALL of us to do. In other words, small steps, the NRA is a part of this. You feel they are sell out because they are not moving as fast as you would like and not doing things exactly the way you think they should, we get it! But to call them the 'enemy' is totally illogical!!![V]
A large misconception here, Jim.
It is not that the NRA is 'not moving fast enough'. Many NRA positions factually set back the movement towards actual individual rights to keep and bear arms by substituting legislation that creates the power of the state to license, register and regulate.
One only need review the history of the McDonald decision to understand the motive of the NRA.
Alan Gura and The Second Amendment Foundation set out to win the case using the Privileges and Immunities (i.e. Individual Rights) Clause of the 14th Amendment. The NRA steps in and testifies for the use of the Due Process (State Legislative Permission) Clause.
Why?
The argument was that it would be easier to get a positive decision. While this may be true, it changed the 2nd Amendment from a guarantee of a right of the individual citizen to a toothless demand upon State and Local Governments that they can license, restrict and regulate all they want so long as they do not completely deny access to firearms from their citizens.
The 'Not Fast Enough' argument is false.
The NRA actively works against Individual Right stated int he 2nd Amendment by lobbying for legislative privileges.
Brad Steele
You are gong the wrong way down the road at 60+ mph. Your goal is go the right/other way. If you simply crank the steering wheel hard and try to turn around you will end up in a big wreck.
You MUST first slow the vehicle down going the wrong way, then when it is stopped you MUST carefully turn around and then, and only then can you go down the right road.
You all need to stop jerking the wheel or you are going to end up in a big wreck!!!!![;)]
Look at like this guys.
You are gong the wrong way down the road at 60+ mph. Your goal is go the right/other way. If you simply crank the steering wheel hard and try to turn around you will end up in a big wreck.
You MUST first slow the vehicle down going the wrong way, then when it is stopped you MUST carefully turn around and then, and only then can you go down the right road.
You all need to stop jerking the wheel or you are going to end up in a big wreck!!!!![;)]
LOL you're a hoot Jim.
What you fail to realize is that vehicle wrecked a long time ago. And while some of us got out and are trying to fix the vehicle people like your self decided to keep walking down that wrong road. Good luck someday I hope you figure out how to get back to the right road.
Look at like this guys.
You are gong the wrong way down the road at 60+ mph. Your goal is go the right/other way. If you simply crank the steering wheel hard and try to turn around you will end up in a big wreck.
You MUST first slow the vehicle down going the wrong way, then when it is stopped you MUST carefully turn around and then, and only then can you go down the right road.
You all need to stop jerking the wheel or you are going to end up in a big wreck!!!!![;)]
Actually, we're the ones going the right way, you're the one going the wrong way, and jerking the wheel as you go. As I see it.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
Look at like this guys.
You are gong the wrong way down the road at 60+ mph. Your goal is go the right/other way. If you simply crank the steering wheel hard and try to turn around you will end up in a big wreck.
You MUST first slow the vehicle down going the wrong way, then when it is stopped you MUST carefully turn around and then, and only then can you go down the right road.
You all need to stop jerking the wheel or you are going to end up in a big wreck!!!!![;)]
LOL you're a hoot Jim.
What you fail to realize is that vehicle wrecked a long time ago. And while some of us got out and are trying to fix the vehicle people like your self decided to keep walking down that wrong road. Good luck someday I hope you figure out how to get back to the right road.
So to you all is lost, the wreck has happened and we are all dead ! I feel sorry for you. Some of us don't give up that easy!!!![;)]
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
Look at like this guys.
You are gong the wrong way down the road at 60+ mph. Your goal is go the right/other way. If you simply crank the steering wheel hard and try to turn around you will end up in a big wreck.
You MUST first slow the vehicle down going the wrong way, then when it is stopped you MUST carefully turn around and then, and only then can you go down the right road.
You all need to stop jerking the wheel or you are going to end up in a big wreck!!!!![;)]
Actually, we're the ones going the right way, you're the one going the wrong way, and jerking the wheel as you go. As I see it.
So you are gong the right way, what are your accomplishments so far. I have not seen you cause any positive changes in the current laws or environment as a result of your stand on this! The only thing I (and many others) see is some bitter, closed mined, folks who seem to have nothing positive to help in this fight. Only criticism and attempts to hinder and attack those who really do give a chitt and work to get things changed.[V]
Look at like this guys.
You are gong the wrong way down the road at 60+ mph. Your goal is go the right/other way. If you simply crank the steering wheel hard and try to turn around you will end up in a big wreck.
You MUST first slow the vehicle down going the wrong way, then when it is stopped you MUST carefully turn around and then, and only then can you go down the right road.
You all need to stop jerking the wheel or you are going to end up in a big wreck!!!!![;)]
How is the NRA slowing down the vehicle, Jim?
At best, they are maintaining speed and telling us they are looking for an off-ramp, while deliberately missing them whenever they present themselves. One need only reference Heller, McDonald, support for national CCW, support for NCIS, continuing with the 'right to carry holder', and 'law abiding gunowner' mantra.
There is no slowing down at present. Only an aggressive legislative agenda designed to put more laws on the books. Look at GOA and SAF. These two organizations work to strike down laws that exist, not add to the existing maze.
Brad Steele
levels thereof) that The Propaganda Meisters for the Globalist Cabal of which Obammy and
his Aniti-Semite Illuminati Master(s) not the least of which is George Soros, (TRAITOR to all
Yehudim ) of whom I number myself to all who stand with Eretz Yisrael here (a big Chag Chanukkah to all of ya'll from South Carolina!!! ) THEY the establishment OBOTS (those whom
admit they voted from him show the first signs of recovery, like the 9 steps to recovery from
alcoholism) are always going to show up places like here and sow seeds of discord. They are masters of spin and can make up reams of false data to suit their agenda. TO misinform and thereby divide and conquer.
Thomas
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
Look at like this guys.
You are gong the wrong way down the road at 60+ mph. Your goal is go the right/other way. If you simply crank the steering wheel hard and try to turn around you will end up in a big wreck.
You MUST first slow the vehicle down going the wrong way, then when it is stopped you MUST carefully turn around and then, and only then can you go down the right road.
You all need to stop jerking the wheel or you are going to end up in a big wreck!!!!![;)]
Actually, we're the ones going the right way, you're the one going the wrong way, and jerking the wheel as you go. As I see it.
So you are gong the right way, what are your accomplishments so far. I have not seen you cause any positive changes in the current laws or environment as a result of your stand on this! The only thing I (and many others) see is some bitter, closed mined, folks who seem to have nothing positive to help in this fight. Only criticism and attempts to hinder and attack those who really do give a chitt and work to get things changed.[V]
I notice that whenever I point to how someone is pedaling in the wrong direction, their response is to say "well, what have you done". Well, for one, I stopped pedaling in the wrong direction. Once you stop doing that, then we can talk.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
quote:Originally posted by RTKBA
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
Look at like this guys.
You are gong the wrong way down the road at 60+ mph. Your goal is go the right/other way. If you simply crank the steering wheel hard and try to turn around you will end up in a big wreck.
You MUST first slow the vehicle down going the wrong way, then when it is stopped you MUST carefully turn around and then, and only then can you go down the right road.
You all need to stop jerking the wheel or you are going to end up in a big wreck!!!!![;)]
LOL you're a hoot Jim.
What you fail to realize is that vehicle wrecked a long time ago. And while some of us got out and are trying to fix the vehicle people like your self decided to keep walking down that wrong road. Good luck someday I hope you figure out how to get back to the right road.
So to you all is lost, the wreck has happened and we are all dead ! I feel sorry for you. Some of us don't give up that easy!!!![;)]
Perhaps I gave you too much credit, it happens. That car wrecked the moment we stopped believing in and trusting the Constitution. And while some of us decided to take a hard look at this country and where we are headed some like yourself decided to continue down that wrong road.
Take people Like LT496 and Don McManus. Now I don't mean to speak for them but I think they will agree the way to fix this country and get it headed down the right road is through education. Teaching people about the Constitution the founding principals and pushing for Constitutional adherence.
In another thread you claim to be a man of logic, able to set your emotions aside. So I will ask you to do that now. Set your emotions aside and answer this question logically.
In your right hand you want the local, State and Federal government to recognize an absolute right yet, In your left hand you believe and support an organization that barters away that right on every front. How do you expect that diametric view to come together?
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
Look at like this guys.
You are gong the wrong way down the road at 60+ mph. Your goal is go the right/other way. If you simply crank the steering wheel hard and try to turn around you will end up in a big wreck.
You MUST first slow the vehicle down going the wrong way, then when it is stopped you MUST carefully turn around and then, and only then can you go down the right road.
You all need to stop jerking the wheel or you are going to end up in a big wreck!!!!![;)]
Actually, we're the ones going the right way, you're the one going the wrong way, and jerking the wheel as you go. As I see it.
So you are gong the right way, what are your accomplishments so far. I have not seen you cause any positive changes in the current laws or environment as a result of your stand on this! The only thing I (and many others) see is some bitter, closed mined, folks who seem to have nothing positive to help in this fight. Only criticism and attempts to hinder and attack those who really do give a chitt and work to get things changed.[V]
I notice that whenever I point to how someone is pedaling in the wrong direction, their response is to say "well, what have you done". Well, for one, I stopped pedaling in the wrong direction. Once you stop doing that, then we can talk.
So your actions are self satisfying but do nothing to help the rest of us who believe there is still a fight worth fighting for ALL of us!!! As I said before, I will not change your mind or any others who have closed their minds to any other position other than their own. The various pro gun organizations have steped in to support many folks who have been wronged individually and collectively, but to those with your believes they have not helped in any way. The bottom line is 'any compromise' in what you believe is wrong and those who do not do things as you think they should are wrong and the 'enemy'.
To me the 'wreck' occurs when we have a progressive dictator in chief, as we do now, who has appointed a Supreme Court of progressive judges, and the progressives have both houses of congress. Then we will be forced to use violence to defend our RTKABA'S. Until that occurs I will maintain my grasp on reality and do what I can to try and get this 'turned around' and going the right way with out violence.
I am sorry so many here have given up the fight!!![V]
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
quote:Originally posted by RTKBA
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
Look at like this guys.
You are gong the wrong way down the road at 60+ mph. Your goal is go the right/other way. If you simply crank the steering wheel hard and try to turn around you will end up in a big wreck.
You MUST first slow the vehicle down going the wrong way, then when it is stopped you MUST carefully turn around and then, and only then can you go down the right road.
You all need to stop jerking the wheel or you are going to end up in a big wreck!!!!![;)]
LOL you're a hoot Jim.
What you fail to realize is that vehicle wrecked a long time ago. And while some of us got out and are trying to fix the vehicle people like your self decided to keep walking down that wrong road. Good luck someday I hope you figure out how to get back to the right road.
So to you all is lost, the wreck has happened and we are all dead ! I feel sorry for you. Some of us don't give up that easy!!!![;)]
Perhaps I gave you too much credit, it happens. That car wrecked the moment we stopped believing in and trusting the Constitution. And while some of us decided to take a hard look at this country and where we are headed some like yourself decided to continue down that wrong road.
Take people Like LT496 and Don McManus. Now I don't mean to speak for them but I think they will agree the way to fix this country and get it headed down the right road is through education. Teaching people about the Constitution the founding principals and pushing for Constitutional adherence.
In another thread you claim to be a man of logic, able to set your emotions aside. So I will ask you to do that now. Set your emotions aside and answer this question logically.
In your right hand you want the local, State and Federal government to recognize an absolute right yet, In your left hand you believe and support an organization that barters away that right on every front. How do you expect that diametric view to come together?
I think I answered in the post above. But my question to you is, if the wreck has all ready occurred, what are your plans to fix it???[?]
quote:Originally posted by RTKBA
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
quote:Originally posted by RTKBA
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
Look at like this guys.
You are gong the wrong way down the road at 60+ mph. Your goal is go the right/other way. If you simply crank the steering wheel hard and try to turn around you will end up in a big wreck.
You MUST first slow the vehicle down going the wrong way, then when it is stopped you MUST carefully turn around and then, and only then can you go down the right road.
You all need to stop jerking the wheel or you are going to end up in a big wreck!!!!![;)]
LOL you're a hoot Jim.
What you fail to realize is that vehicle wrecked a long time ago. And while some of us got out and are trying to fix the vehicle people like your self decided to keep walking down that wrong road. Good luck someday I hope you figure out how to get back to the right road.
So to you all is lost, the wreck has happened and we are all dead ! I feel sorry for you. Some of us don't give up that easy!!!![;)]
Perhaps I gave you too much credit, it happens. That car wrecked the moment we stopped believing in and trusting the Constitution. And while some of us decided to take a hard look at this country and where we are headed some like yourself decided to continue down that wrong road.
Take people Like LT496 and Don McManus. Now I don't mean to speak for them but I think they will agree the way to fix this country and get it headed down the right road is through education. Teaching people about the Constitution the founding principals and pushing for Constitutional adherence.
In another thread you claim to be a man of logic, able to set your emotions aside. So I will ask you to do that now. Set your emotions aside and answer this question logically.
In your right hand you want the local, State and Federal government to recognize an absolute right yet, In your left hand you believe and support an organization that barters away that right on every front. How do you expect that diametric view to come together?
I think I answered in the post above. But my question to you is, if the wreck has all ready occurred, what are your plans to fix it???[?]
Jim I answered your question before you asked it, you just need to reread my post. I looked for and couldn't find your answer to my question, But I will admit my question might be a tad complicated. So let's try this one instead. What exactly are you fighting for?
(edited for spelling)
It seems to be a fight for government granted permission and for anti-Amendment II prohibitions, controls or dare I say it, 'infringements' on the fundamental constitutional God-given right to keep and bear arms, which are expressly against the absolute prohibition ON GOVERNMENT from doing so in the text of Amendment II.
Jim wants prior restraint/control/prohibition/infringement, by government, on firearms and weapons that he either fears or that he doesn't want others to have, for whatever the reason.
Hate to be so blunt, but then, that's the way it is, as I have seen it.
In the posts above I have answered your question about what the NRA and other organizations have done to support the RTKABA's.
As for me, I have stated my beliefs in no uncertain terms MANY times here. But because I only agree with about 98% of what you do I am the enemy also.[;)] As I said above, I know what I say will have no affect on you and many here as they have closed their minds to everything but what they want to hear.
Happy Christmas and a Merry New Year, All of God's blessing on you and yours, from our Sweet Home Alabama to where ever you all may be!!!![^]