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Help Please - I'm Confused!

p0nzan0p0nzan0 Member Posts: 3 ✭✭

I am a resident of Monmouth County, NJ (and new to this, so please forgive me if I've posted to the wrong forum). I've never owned or fired a waepon in my life, but now find myself in a real state of confusion.

While doing some work on my family tree, I discovered that my maternal grandfather served in an Italian Alpine regiment from 1905 to 1907. While going through his papers, I found a record of his firearms training and saw that he was issued an 1891 Carcano (standard, not carbine) that was manufactured in Turin in 1895 (I even have the serial number). Consequently, I thought that it'd be kinda nice to purchase an 1891 Carcano as close to that description as possible. I'd like to restore it cosmetically, if needed, make up a plaque, and then hang it up in my den. I don't care if it's functional or not since I have no plans to even attempt to fire it. As a matter of fact, I'd even prefer if it was non-functional!

I went to the ATF site, and, given their guidelines, it would appear that this rifle qualifies as a true antique: it was manufactured before 1898, it's a bolt action, and it's ammunition (6.5x52) is not commercially available (at least I believe that it's not commercially available). This being the case, I assume that I wouldn't need the services of someone with an FFL, or even a C&R in order to purchase it and have it shipped to me directly.
OK so far.

I then checked with the New Jersey State Police, and spoke with a couple of detectives in their firearms division. After describing the situation to them, they were in agreement that the rifle was indeed an antique, and that purchasing it and having it shipped to me was virtually no different from buying a golf club or pick-axe.
OK so far.

Finally, I went to my local police precinct to find out if my information was correct. This was when the fun started. One officer said, in effect, "no sweat". Another, however, said that I'd need to obtain a firearms purchaser identification. When I brought up my ATF findings, he dusted off the ATF, saying that that's only Federal law, and is superceded by NJ law. When I related my conversation with the State Police, he sort of implied that either they didn't know what they were talking about, or that I hadn't supplied them with the correct information. (As if I'd do something like that and then be stupid enough to speak to a police officer about it - sheesh!)

Truth is, I really don't mind getting the identification card since it only costs a few bucks. But now I've seen that some dealers and individuals won't even ship to New Jersey.

Man, all this pillar-to-post rigamarole for a display piece!

I really feel for you guys and gals that do this for a hobby or a business.

If someone out there has any experience with this sort of thing, I'd appreciate any suggestions.

Thanks in advance!



  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    The Second Amendment to the Constitution of the united states of America;

    "A well regulated Militia,being necessary to the security of a free state,the Right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

    Welcome to the forum,and also to the New World Order,Amerika,nation/state.

    There will be along shortly a fellow prisoner of NJ able to tell you which hoops you must jump through to exercise your inalienable rights as a citizen of the "free state of ________ (fill in the blank..)
  • dsmithdsmith Member Posts: 902 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    And I thought I'd have to jump through a lot of hoops to get a Class III/Full Auto Uzi. I'm living in a free state, and I could license a full auto with less confusing paperwork.
  • Broomie2Broomie2 Member Posts: 325 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    p0nzan0: Im in Monmouth Co. NJ also. What the ATF told you is my understanding, and Jersey does abide by that also. Any firearm made in the 1890's (not sure of exact date) is considered and antique.


    "Before they can convince you that rights emanate from them (the government), they must first eliminate God. They are working 24/7 to accomplish this."
  • p0nzan0p0nzan0 Member Posts: 3 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    First of all, I'd like to thank those of you who took the time to respond to my original post.

    Well, I did a little more research, and it now appears that the ammunition for this rifle IS commercially available. This pretty much (at least to the best of my understanding) either destroys its status as an antique or, at the very least, pushes it into one of those minefields that legislators are so talented at creating.

    So, it looks like I'm off to red-tape land. I started the journey today by contacting my local police department to find out what the proper procedure is. After getting that information, I was informed that the whole process could take up to 3 months or more. I've familiarized myself with the NJ state laws concerning this issue, and pointed out that it clearly states that all firearms purchaser identification applications MUST be either approved or rejected in a maximum of 30 days. Well, that made about as much of an impression on them as reading Plato's Republic to a cocker spaniel. Gee, wonder what would happen if I told the county that I'd get around to paying next quarter's property tax sometime in, say, 2005? Or maybe 2006, if I'm really too busy to get to it in the time prescribed by law. I'm sure they'd understand completely and not even consider tossing me and my family onto the street.

    Anyways, enough of my kvetching.

    Thanks again, and best of luck to all.

  • Salvage33Salvage33 Member Posts: 1,182 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1

    Why not consider this as a course of action...get a non-firing replica? If that isn't viable, spend the $40 to get a C&R ffl and order/purchase one from one of the auctions on Gun Broker.

    License applications for the C&R are available online at BATFE's website. Believe they are PDF files (adobe) and can be printed out. No sweat getting one of those, though it seems to be a bit of a hassle to purchase something built in the 19th century to hang on the wall. Glad I don't live in New Jersey and have to put up with all this BS.


    A friend will post your bail. A good friend will be sitting next to you in the cell saying, "man that was fun!"
  • Salvage33Salvage33 Member Posts: 1,182 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Just curious about NJ you have to have a permit to purchase black powder firearms?


    The original point and click interface was made by Smith & Wesson
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