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Does 2.925 seem like a long chamber...
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Member Posts: 168,427 ✭
from the bolt face to the lands on a 30-06? My son just got his first hunting rifle and the chamber seems to have a long throat...
165 Gr Nosler BT's are only sitting a heavy 1/8" into the case...maybe 3/16" if I stretched it. I have some 180 gr Hornady SP's and the aren't any longer.
I've never loaded for the 30-06 before. I've always preferred the 308. Does this seem to be a long chamber to you guys (from the bolt face to the Ogive)?
Thanks!
165 Gr Nosler BT's are only sitting a heavy 1/8" into the case...maybe 3/16" if I stretched it. I have some 180 gr Hornady SP's and the aren't any longer.
I've never loaded for the 30-06 before. I've always preferred the 308. Does this seem to be a long chamber to you guys (from the bolt face to the Ogive)?
Thanks!
Comments
"Unfortunately, Weatherby's accuracy suffers for it"........not realy, we are talking 'hunting' rifle' not 'varmit' or 'bench rest'. Most weatherby's I've shot will hold 1" or less with proper ammo. Sure, I like to shoot small groups but realisticly any rifle that will shoot under 2" @ 100 yrds. is all you need out to 500 yards.
probably throated for the heaveier bullets (more room for powder[:D]). a longer throat is ok for a hunting rifle, Weatherby has use a 1" throat for years.
Unfortunately, Weatherby's accuracy suffers for it. [;)] I'm going to order some 180 Gr Nosler BT's and hope they seat in the case a little further, but I wanted to shoot 165's in it. They just aren't quite long enough though.
Stay .025" or so away from the lands in a hunting rifle.
The SAAMI OAL for the .30-06 cartridge is 3.340" so when I load the 165 gr. NBT into an '06 case I get a little over 0.300" into the neck with the boattail making it nearly 1/2" (0.450").
Is it possible that there is some mix up in the numbers?
Best.
quote:Originally posted by MIKE WISKEY
probably throated for the heaveier bullets (more room for powder[:D]). a longer throat is ok for a hunting rifle, Weatherby has use a 1" throat for years.
Unfortunately, Weatherby's accuracy suffers for it. [;)] I'm going to order some 180 Gr Nosler BT's and hope they seat in the case a little further, but I wanted to shoot 165's in it. They just aren't quite long enough though.
Weatherby's accuracy may suffer a bit for it, but the intent of Weatherby is to give 'hunting' accuracy not benchrest accuracy. At velocities not attained with other cartridges.
It would seem normal to me to have some freebore in a cartridge with as much range as the 30-06 does. Yours is a bit excessive though. I say if it shoots well load it as is and let the bullets get a run at the lands.
AAAC,
The SAAMI OAL for the .30-06 cartridge is 3.340" so when I load the 165 gr. NBT into an '06 case I get a little over 0.300" into the neck with the boattail making it nearly 1/2" (0.450").
Is it possible that there is some mix up in the numbers?
Best.
No mix up with numbers. Bolt face to the lands is 2.925, which leaves me a little over 1/8" of a Nosler 165 Gr BT in the case (and that was before I trimmed the cases).
I stepped up to the 180 Gr BT today and it appears as if I have enough bullet left in the case for a dependable round. I'll be running the load ladder tomorrow to see what kind of results we get. These will be set .005 off the lands.
Thanks folks!
quote:Originally posted by AAAC
quote:Originally posted by MIKE WISKEY
probably throated for the heaveier bullets (more room for powder[:D]). a longer throat is ok for a hunting rifle, Weatherby has use a 1" throat for years.
Unfortunately, Weatherby's accuracy suffers for it. [;)] I'm going to order some 180 Gr Nosler BT's and hope they seat in the case a little further, but I wanted to shoot 165's in it. They just aren't quite long enough though.
Weatherby's accuracy may suffer a bit for it, but the intent of Weatherby is to give 'hunting' accuracy not benchrest accuracy. At velocities not attained with other cartridges.
It would seem normal to me to have some freebore in a cartridge with as much range as the 30-06 does. Yours is a bit excessive though. I say if it shoots well load it as is and let the bullets get a run at the lands.
:T The guy I got the rifle from swore it would not shoot...but then again, he was loading to the book numbers...not the rifle.
This is just an SPS, but it has a target crown and I'd be shocked if I didn't end up with less than .75 MOA. I just have to find the right load. Most of my rifles seem to like to to be .005" off the lands. There are exceptions though.
My son needs a decent hunting rifle and I had this nice little SKS that was collection dust.
Elk season opens Monday. My little brother is getting married tomorrow morning. In the mean time, I have to run the ladder on this rifle, find the most accurate load and load for it, be open and clear for fishing on Sunday with the wife, and ready to hunt on Monday. Talk about a time crunch.
I've seen several 06's hunting rifles that were not critical in the oal leade jump for 1 to 1 1/4 inch average hunting accuracy, and I suspect your SPS will be in the same category.
I usually test H4831 and then H4350 powders first with the 150g to 180 gr bullets.
I've seen Weatherby's (hunting rifles) with the leade jump so great that bullets could not be set far enough out to touch the lands, but when the correct load combo was found they would shoot good enough groups for big game hunting rifles. (1 1/2 inchs average or less)
I would think about first accuracy testing at the OAL suggested in a reloading manual for initial testing of your HUNTING rifle and working up a load, or I would at least find the maximum OAL that will reliably feed through the magazine box. If you FIRST start testing and come up with a jump OAL that won't feed from the magazine box you have a single shot hunting rifle.
I've seen several 06's hunting rifles that were not critical in the oal leade jump for 1 to 1 1/4 inch average hunting accuracy, and I suspect your SPS will be in the same category.
I usually test H4831 and then H4350 powders first with the 150g to 180 gr bullets.
I've seen Weatherby's (hunting rifles) with the leade jump so great that bullets could not be set far enough out to touch the lands, but when the correct load combo was found they would shoot good enough groups for big game hunting rifles. (1 1/2 inchs average or less)
This is a Remington. Remington's almost ALWAYS have a magazine box long enough to accomodate rounds loaded into the lands. You are right about needing to check that though. I didn't in this case and ended up lucking out after it was all loaded. [:I]
I ran the load ladder and the the first three rounds (1.5 grain variance) were in the same hole. I think this little rifle is going to shoot. It seems to like lower velocities 2510-2550. Just got finished loading up 3 more loads...and I'm headed back to the range.
Sometime AFTER we get our Elk, Deer, and Bear I'll look for a higher velocity load for it. She seemed to tighten back up in the high 2700's.
I prefer a very accurate gun for hunting vs a high velocity gun that throws flyers every once in awhile.
Most generally with the Remington bolt action 30-06's after you find a 180 gr bullet hunting accuracy load, if you want little more velocity and somewhat reduced recoil you can sometimes be pleasantly surprised by testing a 150 gr bullet with the same powder with real good accuracy results.
If you want to make a 30/30 (2100-2300fps) with very little recoil, out of the 30;06 and the 308, save your old brass and load 5744 powder at the Accurate Arms site recommended reduced loads using your regular hunting bullets and you can play around and usually find a load (running the ladder) that will shoot to same point of impact at 100 yards as your regular hunting load (therefore no scope re-adjustemnts at 80-100 yards) and very good fun plinking, practice load using the old brass that is normally tossed out then even kids can shoot the big guns.
Never had any problems using the old brass that had been reloaded several times when reloading the reduced loads. Just be real careful and keep a heads up and don't do a double charge of the 5744.
In some 06's I've had to settle for a lower velocity (2600 area) at times for real good accuracy and never had any problems at all in the taking of large game out to 375 yards. A high velocity bullet zinging past the animal without a hit will not make em stay down very long.
I prefer a very accurate gun for hunting vs a high velocity gun that throws flyers every once in awhile.
Most generally with the Remington bolt action 30-06's after you find a 180 gr bullet hunting accuracy load, if you want little more velocity and somewhat reduced recoil you can sometimes be pleasantly surprised by testing a 150 gr bullet with the same powder with real good accuracy results.
If you want to make a 30/30 (2100-2300fps) with very little recoil, out of the 30;06 and the 308, save your old brass and load 5744 powder at the Accurate Arms site recommended reduced loads using your regular hunting bullets and you can play around and usually find a load (running the ladder) that will shoot to same point of impact at 100 yards as your regular hunting load (therefore no scope re-adjustemnts at 80-100 yards) and very good fun plinking, practice load using the old brass that is normally tossed out then even kids can shoot the big guns.
Never had any problems using the old brass that had been reloaded several times when reloading the reduced loads. Just be real careful and keep a heads up and don't do a double charge of the 5744.
Thanks for the input. None of these test rounds did well with grouping (2" groups! :-() I thought for SURE that one of these loades, between 53.5-54.5 would give me some awesome groups...and I all I got out of them was 2" groups. I'm sadly disappointed. It wil suffice for hunting season, but it will NOT suffice for ultimate accuracy. I was sadly diappointed when I got back to the range. I was expecting 1/2" groups. We have no more time to expiriement before elk season, but we will get it dialed in after Joe kills his elk, deer, and bear.
I'm going to try running the ladder with IMR 4350 next....
Thanks again folks! [8D]
In some 06's I've had to settle for a lower velocity (2600 area) at times for real good accuracy and never had any problems at all in the taking of large game out to 375 yards. A high velocity bullet zinging past the animal without a hit will not make em stay down very long.
I prefer a very accurate gun for hunting vs a high velocity gun that throws flyers every once in awhile.
Most generally with the Remington bolt action 30-06's after you find a 180 gr bullet hunting accuracy load, if you want little more velocity and somewhat reduced recoil you can sometimes be pleasantly surprised by testing a 150 gr bullet with the same powder with real good accuracy results.
If you want to make a 30/30 (2100-2300fps) with very little recoil, out of the 30;06 and the 308, save your old brass and load 5744 powder at the Accurate Arms site recommended reduced loads using your regular hunting bullets and you can play around and usually find a load (running the ladder) that will shoot to same point of impact at 100 yards as your regular hunting load (therefore no scope re-adjustemnts at 80-100 yards) and very good fun plinking, practice load using the old brass that is normally tossed out then even kids can shoot the big guns.
Never had any problems using the old brass that had been reloaded several times when reloading the reduced loads. Just be real careful and keep a heads up and don't do a double charge of the 5744.
The problem I'm having with lighter bullets is the bullet jump. I've never known execessive bullet jump to contribute to accuracy...Thanks again!
Just curious what bullet weight and powder you were testing for the disappointing 2 inch groups???
You indicated that the guy said he could not get it too group very good! Don't forget to thourghly clean the barrel before starting the tests. (it may have had several rounds down the barrel with no GOOD copper cleaning) I've seen a few 06 barrels that were copper fouled and groups would be very poor and it was a waste looking for a load when they are copper fouled. A good cleaning brought them around, assuming all else is ok! Nowdays I always do the barrel clean first, then scope base check, bed the action and float the barrel, then try a test run with a know good scope that I have laid back for the testing, then install the hunt scope and test during the finals.
Good Luck to ya during your hunt!
NRA Member!
Most generally Rem 700 type 06 with standard twist barrel prefer the heavier bullet (180gr) and the low end for lighter bullets is normally 150gr, so I start testing with 180gr.
Just curious what bullet weight and powder you were testing for the disappointing 2 inch groups???
You indicated that the guy said he could not get it too group very good! Don't forget to thourghly clean the barrel before starting the tests. (it may have had several rounds down the barrel with no GOOD copper cleaning) I've seen a few 06 barrels that were copper fouled and groups would be very poor and it was a waste looking for a load when they are copper fouled. A good cleaning brought them around, assuming all else is ok! Nowdays I always do the barrel clean first, then scope base check, bed the action and float the barrel, then try a test run with a know good scope that I have laid back for the testing, then install the hunt scope and test during the finals.
Good Luck to ya during your hunt!
NRA Member!
It's a clean barrel. I went through the gun thoroughly before we started...lapped the rings, checked the front stock screw...all the torque settings, and everything. It's an entry level Nikon scope, but i would expect it to be dependable.
We are using 180 Gr Nosler BT's over IMR 4831. I think I'm going to try some IMR 4350 next.
When I ran the ladder, the first three rounds were in the same hole. I was sadly disappointed when I went back out and got 2" groups with each load. Maybe I should try some 190 grain VLD's in it...just seems like a HEAVY bullet for the '06.
IMR4831 IS NOT a favorite of the Remington 30-06 NORMALLY!
H4831 and IMR or H4350.
I usually test the H4831SC first. (short cut)
then if necessary 2nd powder testing I go to H4350 and sometimes the gun prefers the 4350's for the lesser weight 150gr bullets and the H4831 for the heavier bullets from a 30-06. But some guns seem to be like people, they can be weird and not prefer the norm, but most Remington 700 30-06's are user friendly and inheriently accurate when reloading or even factory ammo.
I prefer the H4350 because the H4350 seems to be little more stable and not quite as critical of the powder weight load and lot to lot number consistency as compared to the IMR4350.
You have to run the ladder in 1/2 gr increments with the 4350's.
The H4831 can normally be loaded at the low, med and 1 gr below max with 150 to 180 gr bullets to see what the gun says and if none of these 3 loads shows promise, forget it and move on. If it shows promise load in 1/2 gr increments and if a 30-06 shopws promise on paper with this powder it's will usually repeat on paper when roloaded. (some powders as you found won't repeat on a paper test as you discovered and even later you may discover some promising powders will not COLD bore test as first shot on target)
Also for a hunting rifle I normally start PAPER testing with a Hornady or Sierra bullet that is not as costly as the Noslers and after the gun told me what powder and bullet weight it likes then slip it a Nosler hunting bullet during the finals and have always had good results doing such for a HUNTING rifle and therefore I have more Noslers bullets for shooting at hair and more $$ left for additional hunting and fishin stuff and maybe a few dollars in addition for the woman a Xmas present. (keep in mind that the Nosler HUNTING bullets are not silloute bullets, therfore the average spread may increase somewhat when doing the final paper testing)
Just some additional thoughts about the Rem 30-06 reloads testing!
IMR4831 IS NOT a favorite of the Remington 30-06 NORMALLY!
H4831 and IMR or H4350.
I usually test the H4831SC first. (short cut)
then if necessary 2nd powder testing I go to H4350 and sometimes the gun prefers the 4350's for the lesser weight 150gr bullets and the H4831 for the heavier bullets from a 30-06. But some guns seem to be like people, they can be weird and not prefer the norm, but most Remington 700 30-06's are user friendly and inheriently accurate when reloading or even factory ammo.
I prefer the H4350 because the H4350 seems to be little more stable and not quite as critical of the powder weight load and lot to lot number consistency as compared to the IMR4350.
You have to run the ladder in 1/2 gr increments with the 4350's.
The H4831 can normally be loaded at the low, med and 1 gr below max with 150 to 180 gr bullets to see what the gun says and if none of these 3 loads shows promise, forget it and move on. If it shows promise load in 1/2 gr increments and if a 30-06 shopws promise on paper with this powder it's will usually repeat on paper when roloaded. (some powders as you found won't repeat on a paper test as you discovered and even later you may discover some promising powders will not COLD bore test as first shot on target)
Also for a hunting rifle I normally start PAPER testing with a Hornady or Sierra bullet that is not as costly as the Noslers and after the gun told me what powder and bullet weight it likes then slip it a Nosler hunting bullet during the finals and have always had good results doing such for a HUNTING rifle and therefore I have more Noslers bullets for shooting at hair and more $$ left for additional hunting and fishin stuff and maybe a few dollars in addition for the woman a Xmas present. (keep in mind that the Nosler HUNTING bullets are not silloute bullets, therfore the average spread may increase somewhat when doing the final paper testing)
I'll have to pick up some H4831 and H4350. I have some IMR 4350 on hand...might give that a try first. Thanks for the very through information!
As for testing with cheaper bullets, I have some Hornady 180 gr SP's, but I think they are too short to sit in the case...unless, I try seating deeper but I like to start close to the lands, or even into the lands before backing them off. I've had very good results with .005 off the lands in most of my guns.
Good luck!