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Accurate rifle questions
skyfish
Member Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭✭
This topic seems to be getting a lot of coverage lately. But I've been busy with work and just getting ready for hunting. My boss wants to reward me with something I wouldn't buy myself, not just money. He said a gun I may want.
So, I've long wanted a highly accurate rifle, something I can start getting into local matches, a 600 yard range. I have shot the local Varmint matches, 300 and 600 yards at various prairie dog silhouettes. But the 204 just isn't a 600 yard rifle.
I've looked hard at the Cooper rifles from Montana, the Phoenix in particular. I like the rifle, the stock is okay. H-S stock would be better. Getting into that price range, 2k, is there better options for a rifle that I hope to work out to 1k.
For cartridge I've settled on the 6.5 Creedmoor, I like the balance of recoil and performance. The 7mm SAUM was my second, but for long days at the range, 6.5 will do. 257 Roberts AI was a sentimental 3rd. Between the 120, 130 and 140 grain bullets, should find the right combo. Would listen to other input.
Also, for optics, I would go with the Vortex Viper PST 6-24 or the Zeiss Conquest 6.5-20. Those two I believe will do what I'm trying to do, again looking for input with first hand knowledge.
Again, I see this is getting rehashed again, but looking for some advice, will be the most expensive piece in my safe. Want to start off correct. Thanks.
The rifle will be used for paper punching, long range varmint work, possibly some stand/sitting hunts, but I have a nice 7mm SAUM that is my primary hunting rifle.
So, I've long wanted a highly accurate rifle, something I can start getting into local matches, a 600 yard range. I have shot the local Varmint matches, 300 and 600 yards at various prairie dog silhouettes. But the 204 just isn't a 600 yard rifle.
I've looked hard at the Cooper rifles from Montana, the Phoenix in particular. I like the rifle, the stock is okay. H-S stock would be better. Getting into that price range, 2k, is there better options for a rifle that I hope to work out to 1k.
For cartridge I've settled on the 6.5 Creedmoor, I like the balance of recoil and performance. The 7mm SAUM was my second, but for long days at the range, 6.5 will do. 257 Roberts AI was a sentimental 3rd. Between the 120, 130 and 140 grain bullets, should find the right combo. Would listen to other input.
Also, for optics, I would go with the Vortex Viper PST 6-24 or the Zeiss Conquest 6.5-20. Those two I believe will do what I'm trying to do, again looking for input with first hand knowledge.
Again, I see this is getting rehashed again, but looking for some advice, will be the most expensive piece in my safe. Want to start off correct. Thanks.
The rifle will be used for paper punching, long range varmint work, possibly some stand/sitting hunts, but I have a nice 7mm SAUM that is my primary hunting rifle.
Comments
As for the rifle, how about a remington 700 action paired to a good barrel and chambered for whichever caliber you decide on? Get yourself a decent stock and you're in business. Obviously a jewel trigger would be great too but if you want to keep costs low, get the factory remmy trigger adjusted correctly and you'll be pretty impressed. Then upgrade later.
As for glass, take a good look at the Burris Black Diamond. 8-32x will really help give you a precise aiming point when stretching out that far. The more consistently you can aim, the more consistently you can shoot.
Is your boss hiring?
6mm-BRM
6mm PPC
.308 win
The actions and barrel combos are endless. I would do a trued Rem 700 or 40x action with a Hart or Lilja barrel in one of the above Cals. For the price range.
If your boss wants to give you a $2,000 rifle, you may wish to look at offerings from Dakota Arms, New UltraLight Arms (NULA) or Hill Country Rifles. Nosler also now sells semi-custom rifles that are superb. Remington and Savage both have highly respected custom shops, also.
If I remember correctly, Mr Cooper was forced to resign because of his political leaning. He no longer has anything to do with the company.
If your boss wants to give you a $2,000 rifle, you may wish to look at offerings from Dakota Arms, New UltraLight Arms (NULA) or Hill Country Rifles. Nosler also now sells semi-custom rifles that are superb. Remington and Savage both have highly respected custom shops, also.
Do you honestly think Cooper is not drawing a salary from HIS company. His stepping down was merely publicity gesture to appease the people. I guarantee you that he's still making money off of his guns.
It is not now his company, nor does he receive any money from it.
I'll stand by that unless someone can show me his bank statements showing otherwise.
As best I can find, Dan Cooper now has exactly as much to do with Cooper Firearms as Dick Cheney has to do with Blackwater or Lee Iaccoca has to do with Chrysler: Nothing. Zero. Zip. Nada.
It is not now his company, nor does he receive any money from it.
I'll stand by that unless someone can show me his bank statements showing otherwise.
You may be right, but I remember when he stepped down as CEO that he still had controlling interests in his stock shares (or at least, that's what I remember reading). I'd like to know what the real facts are. I've always liked Cooper rifles...
As best I can find, Dan Cooper now has exactly as much to do with Cooper Firearms as Dick Cheney has to do with Blackwater or Lee Iaccoca has to do with Chrysler: Nothing. Zero. Zip. Nada.
It is not now his company, nor does he receive any money from it.
I'll stand by that unless someone can show me his bank statements showing otherwise.
Dick Cheney was never involved with Blackwater. He was involved with KBR/Dynacorp. And I guarantee you Lee Iaccoca is still getting money from Chrysler Corporation. He's also probably still making money on Ford somehow.
As far as Dan Cooper's position with the company, I'm sure he still gets something from the rifles sold with his name on them.
My understanding of that whole deal was it was pretty much because he didn't back the Republican party. A fact a number of you gun owners need to wake up to, and see that under Bush Jr. there were a ton of anti-gun measures enacted through 'rules and interpretations' of the law. Which Congress has no bearing over. Or, say's they don't. It's left up to the courts.
I don't like how the Obama administration has handled the 'Fast and Furious' thing, but it's the only really big thing he has pulled that is anti-gun.
The point is this: Dan Cooper may or may not still be getting money from the company he used to run. He may or may not still be giving some of that money to the Obama campaign. But so what? Everybody who gives to Obama (misguided dolts though they be) gets their money from someplace. If they have a job, that money comes from a company. If you buy anything from anybody, some of the money you spend might eventually end up in Obama's coffers. Food producers make political donations. Gas companies make political donations. Auto makers make political donations. Furniture makers make political donations. Clothing makers make political donations. What do you do? Stop buying anything at all?
Let's be realistic here. And let's also just get back to discussing guns, okay?
In spite of the fact that Dan Cooper chose to make a statement for change, I still support that they are some of the best rifles out there for an 'off the shelf' rifle.
I also like Montana Rifles. I have a CZ model 3 in .300 WSM. A model 70 (pre-'64/post-'94) built by Montana Rifles for CZ-USA under license from Winchester/USRAC. I just took it to the range yesterday and shot 3 moa-sized 5 shot groups @ 300 yds.
quote:If your boss wants to give you a $2,000 rifle, you may wish to look at offerings from Dakota Arms, New UltraLight Arms (NULA) or Hill Country Rifles. Nosler also now sells semi-custom rifles that are superb. Remington and Savage both have highly respected custom shops, also.
That's why I'm asking, have a few Remingtons, Savage and various others, but nothing I'd say is semi-custom or extremely nice. I did look at the H-S Precision rifles, but a little higher priced then I'm willing.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=256852111
Welcome to the world of better rifles!
First and foremost, understand that there will always be compromises with what you think you need or want. This stems from the dollar side of the aisle only. Unless you are willing to pay a lot more money than mentioned and wait for what seems like an interminable period of time for the outcome, you will be making compromises. This is not a bad thing but be aware that your price point doesn't allow for 'the perfect rifle of a lifetime'.
Second, none of the semi-custom makers mentioned can even come close to your price point except Cooper. All the rest are well above the range mentioned with Dakota being way too far over the top.
Third, unless you like really overpaying excessively for a rifle, stay away from the HS. This is a good example of a Remington M700 gone bad. I'll be glad to explain in a e-mail if necessary but this should be deterrent enough.
Fourth, there is nothing exotic about the 6.5 Creedmoor since it is a factory loaded cartridge and available through Hornady and all of their distributors. There are no less than 4 sponsored teams shooting this cartridge in custom rifles and winning with it.
Fifth, the Vortex PST 6-24x will fit your needs both now and in the future. There is no need to spend double on a scope at this point in time. I use the Night Force and US Optics in competition but I'm also fielding two rifles with Vortex scopes on them now as well.
If the Cooper provides you the platform you need and can have confidence in then I'd run with that decision. Otherwise...
You can look at having a semi-custom made for you to the specifications that you want. This will cost more obviously but unfortunately that's the way of this world these days.
I would tell you to get:
- Surgeon 591 action
- Bartlein, Krieger, Schneider or maybe a Brux barrel
- McMillan or Manners composite stock of your selection
- Flush cups, this can be important when a rifle gets double duty.
- Jewell trigger, although the Remington can be tuned properly, but this is top of the line
Fill in the blanks on anything more with your choices. I would gather all the parts from as many different sources as required to get the pricing you can live with and short cut the build time by supplying all your own parts. You'll be amazed at the time saving alone, along with some dollar savings by spreading out the cost over a longer period of time.
Most important, take the time to pick the best gunsmith you need for this project. Call them, talk to them but realize they have work to do also. Meet them if possible but it's not necessary. Get an accurate time frame but then leave him alone to get his work done. Forget about progress reports because they simply take the gunsmith's time away from making money and getting your work done.
That's the short AND the long answer.
Best.
This will be the first wading into the "long range" stuff on a regular basis. I know Long range means different things to different people. On my 7mm hunting rifle, I limit myself to 400 yards, with good shooting position. Its more capable, shooter, maybe. Just want more practice.
This would be a more general purpose rifle, try some matches. Especially the more casual varmint matches. Our range uses these to introduce people to matches. I did it once and had a blast. Second rifle for P-dogs and maybe stand hunting.
I'll post pics when the rifle is all here, and what I finally get.