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How precise do you load?

casper1947casper1947 Member Posts: 1,147 ✭✭✭✭✭
I loaded up some 357's with 2400, Mag primers and 158g SWC.
Some were 14g, 14.5g and 15g. I saw the best from the 14.5g.
I was just wondering how much +/- others accept?

Comments

  • shoff14shoff14 Member Posts: 11,994 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I load a lot of 9mm. If I had that type of range in my powder dump, I would have a big boom. I like to see +/- .1 gr. I believe this is doable with many different pistol powders. Long extruded rifle powders are lucky to meter at +/- .5gr.
  • casper1947casper1947 Member Posts: 1,147 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by shoff14
    I load a lot of 9mm. If I had that type of range in my powder dump, I would have a big boom. I like to see +/- .1 gr. I believe this is doable with many different pistol powders. Long extruded rifle powders are lucky to meter at +/- .5gr.

    Actually I meant to do 14,14.5 and 15.
    But I am not impressed with the LEE powder measurement.
    It works better with fine grain powder.
    What brand of measurement are you using to get .1 variation?
  • FrancFFrancF Member Posts: 35,278 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I am pretty * about my rifle loads. But it mostly depends on the powder/primer combo and it's sensitivity to temperature changes and how close to the max load it is.

    I have seen a few gun's shoot fine in the morning, But come the afternoon heat with the same load, the actions become grenades.
  • perry shooterperry shooter Member Posts: 17,390
    edited November -1
    I load on a STAR progressive press Best powder measure I have ever found for 45ACP type pistol loads 4.6 is 4.6 I measure out 10 rounds worth and adjust for 46 grains can load thousands of rounds and each if you pull bullet will have4.6 of powder. . I test ammo on a ransom rest and this is Match grade ammo.

    editHello Nordic war god Sorry about being confusing
    what I was trying to say was the powder measure that comes as part of a STAR Progressive Reloader. It has a powder measure designed to hold very very tight tolerance. a .2 of a grain in amount of powder in a 30-06 is a much smaller % then the same .2 grain in say a 9MM pistol round with Bulls-Eye powder. Hope this is easier to follow
  • NordicwargodNordicwargod Member Posts: 102 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:I load on a STAR progressive press Best powder measure I have ever found for 45ACP type pistol loads 4.6 is 4.6 I measure out 10 rounds worth and adjust for 46 grains can load thousands of rounds and each if you pull bullet will have4.6 of powder. . I test ammo on a ransom rest and this is Match grade ammo.
    Perry shooter: I try to read everyone of the posts you make as I find them. I have read this several times and I am afraid to say I don't understand what you just wrote! I think he was asking about the type of powder measure he uses. If I'm wrong please correct me.

    I also use a Lee. Its the disc type and you have to take what you get. Sometimes the spread is .5 grains as you change discs!

    quote:I was trying to say was the powder measure that comes as part of a STAR Progressive Reloader. It has a powder measure designed to hold very very tight tolerance. a .2 of a grain in amount of powder in a 30-06 is a much smaller % then the same .2 grain in say a 9MM pistol round with Bulls-Eye powder. Hope this is easier to follow

    Ok, I get it. So .2gr accuracy no matter how much the charge is set for. Thats OK with rifle, but .2gr of error is too much for me especially if I only use 3.7gr in my 9 loads.
    I have been happy with the Lee powder disc setup as far as pistol goes. I guess only because its simple and fits my needs. I don't shoot bullseye but rather "steel" type competitions. Usually one of the discs will throw a load close to what I need and if I don't use a large flake powder the consistency is great. With 231/HP38 I will use the .34 disc and it will throw 3.7gr every time. Never off by more than .05grain. Red Dot on the other hand,,,,,,well I learned my lesson there!

    BADCHRIS wrote:
    quote:What Lee unit are you using? I use 2400 in an Auto Disc and it leaks powder like a sieve. It gets bad enough the disc return spring won't be enough to return the disc under the powder hopper without pushing it. I'm not sure if I should blame the powder or maybe get a new Auto Disc (I bought this one used).

    I was given a used one too. Guy had replaced the return spring with a weaker one to make disc changes easier and it was not going all the way back to refill the powder load! Squibs and partial loads .7 to 2gr loads. I had problems with another used one too! I bought a new one on sale at Midway for $25 a few years ago and have not looked back. 50k rounds later it still works great, never messed with it.
  • shoff14shoff14 Member Posts: 11,994 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by casper1947
    quote:Originally posted by shoff14
    I load a lot of 9mm. If I had that type of range in my powder dump, I would have a big boom. I like to see +/- .1 gr. I believe this is doable with many different pistol powders. Long extruded rifle powders are lucky to meter at +/- .5gr.

    Actually I meant to do 14,14.5 and 15.
    But I am not impressed with the LEE powder measurement.
    It works better with fine grain powder.
    What brand of measurement are you using to get .1 variation?



    I have a couple of Hornady measures for my progressive and an old Herter's for the bench. All of them will have very little variance with flake or ball powders. For flake, I give the Herter's a little tap-tap-tap between throws and it will measure +/- .1 all day long.

    I had a couple of Lee Pro 1000 presses. I found the Lee Powder Disk measures to be quite consistent, specially with ball powders. You just might not have the ideal load amount due to the disk sizes.
  • geeguygeeguy Member Posts: 1,047
    edited November -1
    If you are asking the best dropper I like a Bonanza Bench Rest model. I have tried Lyman #55, RCBS, Dillon, and a few others, and nothing has worked as well for me as the Bonanza. I have never used an electronic version, so I can't say for that type equipment.

    If you are asking +- acceptability then each "type" load has different requirements. I have never measured more then +-.1 grain with current set up and several different powders. However, when loading "match" it must be "right on" for each round. I am quite sure most bench rest rifle people would not accept +-.1 grain.

    If plinking then +-.1 grain is fine with me.
  • MG1890MG1890 Member Posts: 4,649
    edited November -1
    I can tell you this - thrown charges (not trickled) from my old Redding measure will shoot as good as any factory rifle needs.

    For the benchrest rifles powder is weighed and trickled as close as possible. Even then, in 100 yard benchrest, tiny velocity variations from tiny powder errors don't really matter much.

    Long range benchrest calls for the most consistent powder charges possible.

    I doubt that any handgun can show the variations on a target.
  • badchrisbadchris Member Posts: 1,656 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by casper1947
    But I am not impressed with the LEE powder measurement.

    What Lee unit are you using? I use 2400 in an Auto Disc and it leaks powder like a sieve. It gets bad enough the disc return spring won't be enough to return the disc under the powder hopper without pushing it. I'm not sure if I should blame the powder or maybe get a new Auto Disc (I bought this one used).
    Enemies of armed self-defense focus on the gun. They ignore the person protected with that gun.
  • casper1947casper1947 Member Posts: 1,147 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by badchris
    quote:Originally posted by casper1947
    But I am not impressed with the LEE powder measurement.

    What Lee unit are you using? I use 2400 in an Auto Disc and it leaks powder like a sieve. It gets bad enough the disc return spring won't be enough to return the disc under the powder hopper without pushing it. I'm not sure if I should blame the powder or maybe get a new Auto Disc (I bought this one used).

    I have the LEE dippers, the disks (pro-1000) and the perfect powder.
    In fairness I would like to update since my original question I went to the perfect powder and had consistent loads. Of 30 at 14.5g only 2 were 14.4g and 2 at 14.6g.
    But the pro-1000 disks with coarse powder I have +/- .5 is the rule not the exception.
    LEE parts are reasonable from their web site. I have had good results with them.
  • Riomouse911Riomouse911 Member Posts: 3,493 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I use the manual Lee measure with Unique and other flake powders, and I do the three-taps on the up turn of the handle and three taps on the down when it dumps into the case. Just a habit, but it seems to work for me.

    I try to stay as close to the charge as possible, +/- .2 max. in plinking loads for .357 mag/.44 mag/.45 Colt. I don't load max handgun loads with this spread, nor rifle loads, those are spot-on or done over.

    [8D]
  • the middlethe middle Member Posts: 3,089
    edited November -1
    I load mine to +/- .2. The Lee perfect will is the most accurate that Ive found...but its leaks....smae with the auto disk...it does "ok" but it also leaks...hence I no longer use it. The Perfect cant be beat with coarse, large grain powder at all, best out there. Just sucks its a "manual" type and its a giant PITA to set it up on a progessive press (not worth it, in the end). Coarse grain also dosnt leak from it.

    For ball or flake I use either the RCBS or Hornady...and the dillon on the Rl500. (note, for ball or flake...the Dillon is awsome....I do weigh a charge from it every so often, but once its set, its never off..like exact weight every time good..it just really, really, really sucks bad with large grain/ coarse powder....in fact, its not usable with those at all)
  • rusty3040rusty3040 Member Posts: 131 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    i believe consistent volume is much more important than weight
  • distinguisheddistinguished Member Posts: 62
    edited November -1
    For stick powders I use the Lee "perfect powder measure" as it is usually +-0.1g. Easy on the pocketbook too.
    For ball powders I use a Hornady and usually get +-0.1g.
  • CbtEngr01CbtEngr01 Member Posts: 4,340
    edited November -1
    very precise. Measure each and every drop twice. once with electric scale once with the teeter totter
  • machine gun moranmachine gun moran Member Posts: 5,198
    edited November -1
    I use two teeter totters, an RCBS and a Lyman M scale, and throw the charges from an RCBS measure. I like to stay within a half of a tenth, which the measure will do with fine-grained powders.

    I pick loads that are about the middle of the loading range according to the book, whether rifle or pistol, and figure that if I need more power, I need to get a gun with a bigger hole. [:)]
  • wanted manwanted man Member Posts: 3,276
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by CbtEngr01
    very precise. Measure each and every drop twice. once with electric scale once with the teeter totter


    Seriously??.........wow
  • NordicwargodNordicwargod Member Posts: 102 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:quote:
    Originally posted by CbtEngr01

    very precise. Measure each and every drop twice. once with electric scale once with the teeter totter




    Seriously??.........wow

    I agree "wow". Must be a rifle benchrest shooter!
    Would not be able to shoot many USPSA competitons doing it that way.
  • JustCJustC Member Posts: 16,055 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    yalls is funny[:D] even at 1000yds, a .1gr variance will NEVER show up on paper[8] ANY variance will be due to the shooter (missed a wind shift, pulled/pushed the trigger, can't read mirage, etc etc) even a .3gr variance won't matter.

    The one thing I had to learn, which was the hardest,was to STOP overthinking everything[;)] Your ability to shoot, transcends all other variables that you can place importance on.
  • Sky SoldierSky Soldier Member Posts: 460
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by JustC
    yalls is funny[:D] even at 1000yds, a .1gr variance will NEVER show up on paper[8] ANY variance will be due to the shooter (missed a wind shift, pulled/pushed the trigger, can't read mirage, etc etc) even a .3gr variance won't matter.

    The one thing I had to learn, which was the hardest,was to STOP overthinking everything[;)] Your ability to shoot, transcends all other variables that you can place importance on.


    +100%
  • sandwarriorsandwarrior Member Posts: 5,453 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    With my rifles I load pretty closely. It's a habit because I generally used to always try and find the highest accuracy node I could. That means I weigh every load on a RCBS 505.

    The other thing that makes reloading more precise is finding the correct accuracy nodes for your rifle. The correct load itself is every bit as important as weighing right down to the "nitty-gritty-less-than-a-tenth". What you find with that is you can get extreme accuracy with a load varying as much as .75gr either up or down. The speed of the powder and cartridge shape, along with the harmonics of the barrel account for as much accuracy as the differences in load weight.

    I then run ladders to see exactly how well the loads are shooting at a reasonable range (400+ yds.) Where inconsistencies in the load will have trajectory differences enough to be picked up.

    For pistol I work up loads to either low end or medium as I mostly use the pistol to function, not gain long distance accuracy. I have found that getting a load up to the top of what a pistol will handle not only affects the firearm, it affects the shooters accuracy as well. With a mid-range load in a pistol, one can learn to control it quite well and bring it down to very close accuracy. I generally use a very good metering powder and throw all charges. Not weighing as it won't matter. My powder charge is set and can't be changed accidentally. It has to be changed knowingly and manually. So, it will always throw the same charge of a good metering powder. Added: I do weigh to get that charge to start though.
  • jonkjonk Member Posts: 10,121
    edited November -1
    What am I doing?

    If I'm loading most any pistol, I can't shoot them near as well as to make a difference, and I just take whatever my progressive press spits out- which for most powders is +/- .2 gr. I never load to max, if I did for some reason (hunting for instance) I'd check each, but that would be a specialty.

    For rifle, for general fun ammo, I just dump. Depending on the powder and dispenser, that could be zero variation (very fine ball powders in the RCBS) to up to .2gr variation.

    For matches, I use my PACT trickler and scale. Even with extruded I can get the charge right on that way. Necessary? Probably not, but one less thing to worry about.
  • 207driver207driver Member Posts: 17 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Casper: It depends on what you are looking for when you pull the trigger. I want an accurate, and repeatable load.

    When I develop a load for pistol or revolver, I try to eliminate as many variables as possible with the goal of smallest 5 shot group for a given series. All the charges are thrown from a Lyman 55 and trickled to +/- 0.05 grains on a beam scale. Overall length is mic'd as is crimp level. Bullets are sorted to +/- 0.1gr. variation.

    For a given powder, I start mid to lower mid point charges and work up a series of 5 shot loads at 0.2gr apart working up to or near max listed charge. If the powder/bullet is not listed, I will use the data from a similar load, start low and watch for signs of high pressure on the way up. Then there are the variables of standard or magnum primer, COAL and crimp variations. Once the pet load is found, I will use the volumetric charge of the Lyman 55, if the powder is fine grained, and will maintain +/- 0.2gr. error, and check weigh every 10th or 15th charge.

    I know there are other methods that would reduce the amount of components used to find the better load, but hell, I like to shoot, and then, the loading process is somewhat cathartic.

    Now this is my routine. I'm content with it even though it takes extra time to find the sweet spot, sometimes though I get lucky.
  • Montanapete1Montanapete1 Member Posts: 27 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Consistency is accuracy! +/-.1grn here.
  • Montanapete1Montanapete1 Member Posts: 27 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Without high-jacking this thread, How much difference do you think in this day and age of running low on Primers(and all reloading stuff due to shortages) and stuff, do you think there is between Primer company's charges? (hypothetically) So I'm reloading with CCI LR mag. I run out and have to buy some. The only Stuff at the Store Is Remington LR Mag. is this a big enough change to screw my loads up? I've always figured the difference was within the Charge +/-.1 grn and wouldn't affect performance noticeably. Am I wrong? Now with this being said, I'm one of the Possible idiots that gone out and bought 10,000 of each so I will never run out. But just in case, or If i run across a good deal, should I mix?
  • casper1947casper1947 Member Posts: 1,147 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    All my loads are for range use 100 yd max. I would take any primer available at a realistic price. When I started, just over 2 years ago 1K primers were $27.50, 6 mos ago $47, last month $55 & $65 and there were out.
    Bullets (lead) I ordered 5 mos ago took 3 days to receive. My current order is 6 weeks and not yet here.
    Components have cut my range trips from 1 a week to 1 a month.
  • JustCJustC Member Posts: 16,055 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Montanapete1
    Without high-jacking this thread, How much difference do you think in this day and age of running low on Primers(and all reloading stuff due to shortages) and stuff, do you think there is between Primer company's charges? (hypothetically) So I'm reloading with CCI LR mag. I run out and have to buy some. The only Stuff at the Store Is Remington LR Mag. is this a big enough change to screw my loads up? I've always figured the difference was within the Charge +/-.1 grn and wouldn't affect performance noticeably. Am I wrong? Now with this being said, I'm one of the Possible idiots that gone out and bought 10,000 of each so I will never run out. But just in case, or If i run across a good deal, should I mix?


    all primers are different by manufacturer. Some throw a more intense flame, some burn longer, some are cooler, etc etc. I believe the term was "brisance" (?). I work a load ladder with the same primer, the same powder, the same brass, the same bullet, the same OAL, etc etc etc, only changing the charge weight. Once I find the accuracy nodes, I will re-run the tests using different primers, but leaving everything else THE SAME. Some primers like some powders and load densities better than others. The fun is in the experimenting to determine just what is the best combination for your gun.
  • wanted manwanted man Member Posts: 3,276
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by JustC
    quote:Originally posted by Montanapete1
    Without high-jacking this thread, How much difference do you think in this day and age of running low on Primers(and all reloading stuff due to shortages) and stuff, do you think there is between Primer company's charges? (hypothetically) So I'm reloading with CCI LR mag. I run out and have to buy some. The only Stuff at the Store Is Remington LR Mag. is this a big enough change to screw my loads up? I've always figured the difference was within the Charge +/-.1 grn and wouldn't affect performance noticeably. Am I wrong? Now with this being said, I'm one of the Possible idiots that gone out and bought 10,000 of each so I will never run out. But just in case, or If i run across a good deal, should I mix?


    all primers are different by manufacturer. Some throw a more intense flame, some burn longer, some are cooler, etc etc. I believe the term was "brisance" (?). I work a load ladder with the same primer, the same powder, the same brass, the same bullet, the same OAL, etc etc etc, only changing the charge weight. Once I find the accuracy nodes, I will re-run the tests using different primers, but leaving everything else THE SAME. Some primers like some powders and load densities better than others. The fun is in the experimenting to determine just what is the best combination for your gun.


    Exactamundo! Thanks for saving me all that keyboarding, Justin [;)]
  • JustCJustC Member Posts: 16,055 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    no problemo[:D]
  • NavybatNavybat Member Posts: 6,831 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The best accuracy I can get with my RCBS Chargemaster is +/- .1 grain, so that's what I load to. Pistol AND rifle.

    Of course, a lot of people here will try to tell me I don't need to be that "precise". One "high poster" here told me I should not worry unless I was off more than +/- .3 grains.

    But it's MY ammo, so that's what I do. They can be as slack or as precise as they want with THEIR ammo. My tolerances are my own.
  • distinguisheddistinguished Member Posts: 62
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by JustC
    quote:Originally posted by Montanapete1
    Without high-jacking this thread, How much difference do you think in this day and age of running low on Primers(and all reloading stuff due to shortages) and stuff, do you think there is between Primer company's charges? (hypothetically) So I'm reloading with CCI LR mag. I run out and have to buy some. The only Stuff at the Store Is Remington LR Mag. is this a big enough change to screw my loads up? I've always figured the difference was within the Charge +/-.1 grn and wouldn't affect performance noticeably. Am I wrong? Now with this being said, I'm one of the Possible idiots that gone out and bought 10,000 of each so I will never run out. But just in case, or If i run across a good deal, should I mix?


    all primers are different by manufacturer. Some throw a more intense flame, some burn longer, some are cooler, etc etc. I believe the term was "brisance" (?). I work a load ladder with the same primer, the same powder, the same brass, the same bullet, the same OAL, etc etc etc, only changing the charge weight. Once I find the accuracy nodes, I will re-run the tests using different primers, but leaving everything else THE SAME. Some primers like some powders and load densities better than others. The fun is in the experimenting to determine just what is the best combination for your gun.


    Very well said!

    There is more info on this in the Remington primers sticky.
  • Laredo LeftyLaredo Lefty Member Posts: 13,452 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Right now I am loading up a bunch of .38 short colt for the International Revolver Championship in early June. Shooters ammo is chrono'd by match officials.

    I load my ammo to the tenth of a grain. I dispense the powder from an RCBS powder measurer. I check about every 20th round for conformity before seating the bullets. I seat the bullets in one step and crimp them in a separate step.
  • Smitty500magSmitty500mag Member Posts: 13,597 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by casper1947
    I loaded up some 357's with 2400, Mag primers and 158g SWC.
    Some were 14g, 14.5g and 15g. I saw the best from the 14.5g.
    I was just wondering how much +/- others accept?

    I use the Lee Adjustable Charge Bars instead of the disks on all of my Lee Auto Powder Measures for all minimum loads for plinking. It's so much easier to make minor adjustments to by turning the brass screw instead of taking it apart and changing out disks. I spot check the weights on min. loads occasionally to make sure I don't have any loads that might be dangerous but over the years I've never had a powder charge that was out enough to be considered dangerous.

    On all max. loads I weigh each charge. Even with the max. loads I still use the Lee Auto Powder Measures but I reach into my 4 hole turret and pull out the casing and dump it into a scale pan and weigh it. I think it saves time over using the dippers. Anyway I've always been overly careful if there is such a thing when dealing with powder charges that could * and my gun up. In fact I double check just about everything to do with max. loads. Today I went a little further and ordered some pretty pricy electronic scales to recheck my other scales. I always use calibration weights every time I set up to start reloading to verify that my scales are weighing accurately.

    I found these Amston 200 x 0.001 GRAM/3,086 GRAIN, 1 MG DIGITAL ANALYTICAL LABORATORY BALANCE SCALES on E-bay. I had ordered some other Amston Scales but they only read grains out to one decimal place and I was looking for something more precise that I could also use for jewelery weighing. So the company allowed me to exchange my other scales for these scales below. These scales allow me to run a fan or A/C in the same room while weighing since they have the glass enclosure to keep the air movement from screwing up the read out.

    AmstonScales_zps0941a723.jpg
  • RobOzRobOz Member Posts: 9,538 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Varmint and big game get weighed, pistol and AR get thrown.
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