45acp primer pockets?

Butt

I hear that some brass now use small pistol primers. Would a large pistol primer still go in the pocket? I have alot of mixed brass the pockets look the same, but some have smaller flash hole.

1917watercooled

If you would give the caliper of what you want to reload, they will be glad to tell you large or small.

dcs shooters

Large and small primers have different diameters. A large WILL NOT go in a small hole. Don't even try. Look at them and separate them if they look different.

Pistollero1050

+ 1 they are a pain. Every once in while I will get a 45 acp with small primer pocket. It is redaly apparent when it happens. just don't try to force them. Bang.[:D][:0]

jonk

I think you are confusing the flash hole with the primer pocket at least a bit. No they won't fit- but the flash hole itself may be of the same size.

98% of what you see in .45 ACP is large primer. If you DO find a few small primer ones, just toss or scrap them. Unless you have enough to make it a dedicated set for loading, it isn't worth the effort.

1917watercooled

Please enlighten me. At one time did the .45 use a small primer. I load WWII .45's. These are the standard large primer. Since the .45 has been with us quite a while and having not seen a casing from before WWII, I was just thinking it would be neat to have a couple with the small primer just to show off. Thanks

shoff14

quote:Originally posted by 1917watercooled
Please enlighten me. At one time did the .45 use a small primer. I load WWII .45's. These are the standard large primer. Since the .45 has been with us quite a while and having not seen a casing from before WWII, I was just thinking it would be neat to have a couple with the small primer just to show off. Thanks


Current Winchester and Federal NT marked brass is the small primer brass that is seen now.

Butt

Thanks for the info. I was looking at 45acp brass on Gunbroker and a few auctions listed that they may have some with small primer pockets, I've never seen one myself, but I've seen some with smaller flash holes.

rhope

I have come across a few with small primers. The headstamp looks like "nny" but the charaters are a little funny looking. I'm thinking maybe Eastern European ?

1917watercooled

Why would Winchester and Fereral increase the PITA factor for the guys like me that think finding a once fire casing in the grass at the range like finding money on the ground? It also increases, as has already been stated, the "danger" factor of reloading. Just makes me wonder if they are really on our side.

MIKE WISKEY

"At one time did the .45 use a small primer. I load WWII .45's.".........during ww2 SOME .45's were loaded with a smaller primer (larger than a small pistol primer, smaller than a large one).

nemesisenforcer

In the thousands 45 ACP cases I've run across from my shooting exploits, I can count the number of small pistol primer pockets on one hand.

They exist, but are in the definite minority.

Emmett Dunham

Maybe there was some GAP brass mixed in with the ACP brass.

Emmett

1988z01

Could it be that some of those were crimped, and that's why they won't seat?

1917watercooled

Mike, I've already found the smaller primer cases and discarded them as I have thousands of the others. If I remember correctly, they were marked FA.

Hawk Carse

The original modern use of small primers in .45 Auto was for the lead free Dinol priming mix. A lot of small primer brass is headstamped NT for Non Toxic. The makers tell you not to reload them, but I had no trouble using regular small pistol primers.

There is some small primer .45 ammo coming through now without the NT mark. Did they just not bother with the headstamp or are they also lead free and not marked? I don't know but don't think it matters to the reloader. If you have a lot of them, they will load, if you don't, they are not worth fooling with.

norgexxx

There were some 'in-between' primers used in WWII, and Korea that was produced by war ravaged allies and purchased by the military as a way to help economies get started again. During Korea the Japanese made some .45ammo with these smaller primers (metric) as the .45 grease-gun was still very popular with Soldiers and Marines alike trying to plug holes in the Pusan perimeter, and then it was plug the damn hole or go swimming, so plug it they did. I really did not think any of that ammo found its way back to the states as so many .45s were left for the newly liberated countries military and police and I thought all that ammo stayed there also. The com-block ammo with the Cyrrlic inscription appearing similar to'nny' I have only seen on the Serbian made Wolf 'Gold' series of ammo. But that stuff has reloaded for me with very good results. Any fool who thinks the Serbs don't make accurate ammo never faced off with or witnessed the marksmanship the Serbian snipers were capable of. That Serb ammo is more accurate then most rifles are capable of shooting.

richarda

Pre-WWII, Frankfort Arsenal in Philadelphia loaded .45 ACP with a .204 dia. primer. This was before the standarization of many things in American life, and was just a happenstance - no reason in particular, that I know of.

Similarly, the only quantity production of non-corrosive WWII primers was for .30 M1 carbine - because there was no major use of Small Rifle primers by the US military prior to the adoption of the carbine cartridge in the early '40s (just some experimental stuff like .276 Pederson).

perry shooter

The question was asked WHY would Winchester or other makers increase the PITA by using small primers in a cartridge that normally use large primers. The real question is WHY not [?][?]. I am surprised any maker sells reloadable Cases . If you think about it . Every time you reload a round it takes money away from the ammo makers. I for one am glad they make reloadable cases not like the older BLAZER Aluminum cases. I have loaded over 350,000 45ACP cant even imagine how much money I spent doing this. But How much I saved from not being forced to buy factory ammo.
Editsorry about my lack of writing skills. I did not mean to imply that I agree with 2 different primer sizes on the same cartridge. . I really want to say we are as reloaders lucky the ammo makers don't make cases that would not be reloadable or at best much harder for us to reload. on the same note IMHO ammo control would be much easier then gun control. My shtf supply is powder primers and cases + bullets both already made and lead +molds for hundreds of thousands of bullets. . Yes I know that I could never survive long enough to run out but I could supply 200 good pistol shooter for a long time.

1917watercooled

I understand your second point about why do manufactures make/sale reloadable cases. But your first point of why not have two different primer sizes for the same caliber, if I've read your post correctly, does not make sense to me. It seems to me that one would have to inspect every case bottom to verify large or small, therefor increasing the PITA factor.

woodchuckjohn

I found some brass at my range and they had small pistol primers in them. They were Federal and head stamped NT, non toxic. They can be reloaded but you need to use magnum small pistol primers. That tidbit came from Federal. One problem, the primers are not guided into the pocket very well since you are using a small pistol seating tool in a large pistol shell holder. Sometimes the primers shear or go in cocked. I gave up on reloading NT cases.

Pistollero1050

I've got 35 pieces in the last reloading session. It was brass I got from the last big shoot here in AZ. Anybody want to trade straight across?[:D]Maybe I'll do a giveaway!

Boats

I have just started loading 45ACP and purchased some once fired brass and have found about 20 in the last 150 or so and what I have to do is look at the bottom of each one so I don't foul up the progress on my progressive press. I guess that I will just save the small primer cases and trade them off. I agree with you guys that this is crazy having them use a small primer. It seems to me that they could have made the regular large size primer and found a way to put the NT in the center of the larger primer. Oh well, I am enjoying reloading this caliber and have already found a 230gn RN hard cast load that is very accurate using Accurate #2.

v35

Never saw post WW2 45 ACP ammo in Korea. It was all WW2 corrosive.
I have a bunch of current small primer 45ACP segregated to be loaded, fired and resegregated.

v35

Never saw post WW2 45 ACP ammo in Korea. It was all WW2 corrosive.
I have a bunch of current small primer 45ACP segregated to be loaded, fired and resegregated.

Tailgunner1954

quote:Originally posted by 1917watercooled
Why would Winchester and Fereral increase the PITA factor for the guys like me that think finding a once fire casing in the grass at the range like finding money on the ground? It also increases, as has already been stated, the "danger" factor of reloading. Just makes me wonder if they are really on our side.


The NT priming compound is "hotter" than the old.
In order to keep the pressure pulse in the safe range, with a Lg primer, there wasn't enough compound thickness to insure reliable ignition. By going to the smaller cup, they could get enough thickness to insure reliable ignition.

JMHO, but if you're so brain dead that you can't tell the difference in priming force (when trying to force a large primer into a small hole), than you shouldn't own a firearm, let alone reload ammo.

BTW, they also made large and small primer 357mag cases.

Cheechako

quote: . . .BTW, they also made large and small primer 357mag cases.

And 38 Special before that. And several other revolver cartridges as well.

BTW, the Frankford Arsenal #27 primer in the early Cal .45 cartridges was to avoid confusion with the larger Cal .30 rifle primer.

XXCross

Mike Whiskey is correct.("At one time did the .45 use a small primer. I load WWII .45's.".........during ww2 SOME .45's were loaded with a smaller primer (larger than a small pistol primer, smaller than a large one).
They were .204 dia. and only made for about two years during the war. (WW-II) Rare to find one these days.

Cheechako

quote:Originally posted by XXCross
Mike Whiskey is correct.("At one time did the .45 use a small primer. I load WWII .45's.".........during ww2 SOME .45's were loaded with a smaller primer (larger than a small pistol primer, smaller than a large one).
They were .204 dia. and only made for about two years during the war. (WW-II) Rare to find one these days.


Frankford Arsenal actually started using the #27 primer in 1911. It was by design, not just something that happened for no reason. Not all commercial manufacturers that were contracted with to make government ammunition used the small primer. Frankford continued to use it for many years but I don't have exact dates of when it was discontinued or phased out. The #27 primer was still being manufactured as late as the KW.



Ray

62fuelie

I just separate them during the size/deprime process and load the smalls with the small pistol mag primer and try to keep them separated for future convenience. Another one with both large and small primer pockets is the 6.8 SPC. The SSA and Hornady cases use small primers and the Remingtons use large. I use the same approach with these - mag primers in the smalls and standards in the larges - seems to work fine and the loads are consistent.

62fuelie

I just separate them during the size/deprime process and load the smalls with the small pistol mag primer and try to keep them separated for future convenience. Another one with both large and small primer pockets is the 6.8 SPC. The SSA and Hornady cases use small primers and the Remingtons use large. I use the same approach with these - mag primers in the smalls and standards in the larges - seems to work fine and the loads are consistent.