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Powder

BIG ALBIG AL Member Posts: 194 ✭✭✭
How much difference does one tenth of a grain of powder make when shooting a 308 at three hundred yards using 168Gr.match bullets?

Comments

  • BIG ALBIG AL Member Posts: 194 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    A little history on who owns what (posted this previously on another thread regarding the fact that Hodgdon's does not make powder...). Anyone else that can add info please do.

    General Dynamics purchased Olin/Winchester etc and produces the following spherical/ball & single base powders: In Quebec, Canada IMR 3031, 4007ssc, 4064, 4198, 4227, 4320, 4350, SR4756, SR4759, 4831, 4895, SR7625, 7828, PB & 7828ssc, and in St. Marks, Florida Hodgdons HP38, 110, 414, 380, Lil'gun, Hybrid100v, HS-6, H335, BL-c(2), titewad, titegroup, longshot, leverevolution, cfe223, us869, superperformance and also Winchester 231, 296, supertarget, superfield, aalite, superhandicap, 760, 748, supreme 780, auto comp.

    The Thales Group (french company) purchased Australian defense industries in 2006. They produce in australia Hodgdons Extruded line H4895, 4198, Varget, 4350, 50bmg, 4831/4831sc, 1000, retumbo, 322, benchmark, trail boss, 8208xbr, also H4227 (AR2215)(not distributing H4227 in US anymore).

    Group SNPE (french owned again...) formed a subsidary called EURENCO in 2004 they own most of the european powder produced in belgium, finland, france & sweden. This includes Vihatavauri, ramshot and most of the norma line & alliant reloader line (except RL-17 switzerland/german?).

    The old alliant powders like red, blue, green dot, unique, bullseye, 2400 are still produced in the usa. Accurate arms powder??

    A whole lot of good powders are now owned by two french companies...if Eurenco is shutting down Vihatavauri, whose next??? Maybe Winchester 748 wasn't such a bad .223 powder, at least it's made in the USA.......
  • BIG ALBIG AL Member Posts: 194 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    is it hard to come by in most place's
    I baught a pound today and asked about primers they lots of powders and a some primers just wondering if I should go and buy some more ???[?]
  • MG1890MG1890 Member Posts: 4,649
    edited November -1
    From a statistical accuracy standpoint, or from a wind drift standpoint, or from a bullet drop standpoint, cost, what?
  • BIG ALBIG AL Member Posts: 194 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    From the accuracy point.
  • AmbroseAmbrose Member Posts: 2,708 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    With the load that I use (42 gr. of IMR4895) with that bullet and that cartridge, .1 gr. would create a little less than 6 fps. I would think that would be meaningless. Loading as carefully as I can, weighing each powder charge to the last kernel, the extreme spread for five shots of that load still averages 30 fps.
  • charliemeyer007charliemeyer007 Member Posts: 7,348 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It could mean a lot in group size. Scales originally had a 1/10 grain for a reason.
  • MG1890MG1890 Member Posts: 4,649
    edited November -1
    From an accuracy standpoint, if you mean 1/10th grain variation from cartridge to cartridge, it really depends on the load and the rifle. It could really make a difference, but some rifles / loads are more forgiving than others.

    If you are shooting a milspec open sight match, probably won't matter.
  • Ray BRay B Member Posts: 11,822
    edited November -1
    The answer is: it depends.

    the harmonics of the barrel result in the muzzle moving in a three dimensional sine-wave pattern. If the slight variation results in the bullet leaving the muzzle when the muzzle is during a period of little movement, it won't matter much- if it occurs when the muzzle is moving, it will cause an opening of your group.
  • jonkjonk Member Posts: 10,121
    edited November -1
    The other thing to consider too is, your load is only as good as your components. If you have charges weighed to .1 gr or better but your brass varies by 30 gr +/- (meaning in practice a great difference in internal volume) and your bullets vary by 2-3 gr +/-, your careful charge weighing is meaningless.

    Just as an experiment, using one case that I neck sized and reloaded at the range- to eliminate any variables- and 10 pre-weighed powder charges (in test tubes) and 10 pre-weighed bullets, I shot a string. So everything was absolutely exactly the same from shot to shot. Match grade primers. .223 Savage 12 BVSS. 100 yards. Group size .4". SD was still 4 fps though; even with no chance to mess up with reloading components, I was still getting about a 4fps variance.

    For comparison, at 100 yards, group size of ammo run through an RCBS powder drop without weighing (after setting the dispenser) using just whatever cases (all the same brand) and not weighing or anything the cases or bullets was... .4" at 100 yards. SD was 9 fps.

    Now at 1000 yards, that slight variance could indeed make a difference. But not much of one, and you need at least a high quality scoped gun to make it worth even checking.

    For my open sight guns, I long ago decided that while I would prep everything carefully, weighing each case and such was a waste of time.
  • RobOzRobOz Member Posts: 9,130 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by BIG AL
    How much difference does one tenth of a grain of powder make when shooting a 308 at three hundred yards using 168Gr.match bullets?



    Every rifle is different. All my 308 loads are done with just the powder measure using a ball powder. I weigh every 20th or so charge and sometimes it will be a hair off. I have never seen a change in group size that would warrant further research. I always found the 308 Winchester to be real forgiving when it came to charge weight and bullets selection.
  • noyljnoylj Member Posts: 172 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Any good external ballistics program will quickly show you that it is meaningless.
    You are already loading at +/- 0.05gn at best, even weighing.
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