Winchester Large Rifle Magnum Primers

v35

Just found a brick in my primer inventory and wonder if they can be used in reduced loads in non magnum rifle calibers.
Anyone with with experience or special knowledge of the Win LRM primer?

4Huntin

I have used magnum primers in 308 and 708, they say not to if you are at or near max. Loads.
Have never seen I'll affects .

charliemeyer007

How reduced are you talking? I wouldn't use them with a half case full of H4831. Regular starting loads should be fine.

bpost

I shoot a lot of them; they are fine for middle of the road jacketed loads and for hard to ignite powders. Loads over 60-70 grains may benefit from them too. At one time Winchester made one primer for magnum and standard loads.

I use them with reduced loads of VV 133, IMR 4198 and IMR 4895 with cast bullet rifle loads all the time. Standard deviation is acceptable and accuracy is fine.

Got 2,500 of the FEDERAL mag Large Rifle primers for 20 bucks a couple of years back from a guy getting out of reloading.

wanted man

I can't speak directly to reduced loads, but there are load book recipe(s) for .308 with a magnum primer.
Not knowing your level of experience in reloading, I would suggest you stick with published data only.

Ambrose

FWIW: The Accurate Arms ballistics lab conducted a primer test of large rifle primers in .30/06. They even threw in several large pistol primers! They used their version of 4350 powder with Sierra 168 gr. MK bullets. They ran 26 tests and included different batches of the same primer. The Remington 2 1/2 large pistol primer produced the lowest pressure (53,100 PSI) and velocity (2,827 fps) while the Winchester WLRM large rifle magnum produced the highest pressure (63,900 PSI) and velocity (2,951 fps). Winchester's WLR standard large rifle primer was second highest in pressure.

DEEREHART

quote:Originally posted by Ambrose
FWIW: The Accurate Arms ballistics lab conducted a primer test of large rifle primers in .30/06. They even threw in several large pistol primers! They used their version of 4350 powder with Sierra 168 gr. MK bullets. They ran 26 tests and included different batches of the same primer. The Remington 2 1/2 large pistol primer produced the lowest pressure (53,100 PSI) and velocity (2,827 fps) while the Winchester WLRM large rifle magnum produced the highest pressure (63,900 PSI) and velocity (2,951 fps). Winchester's WLR standard large rifle primer was second highest in pressure.

Ambrose, if you could would you share more info on that study. I would really like to see the data. Doug

Ambrose

It was printed in one of the gun magazines I subscribe to. I scanned it and put the copy in one of my "gun logs" so I wouldn't lose it or lose track of the study. I wrote "Summer 2012" and "M. L. McPherson" on the copy. It's called, PRIMER SUBSTITTION STUDY, subtitled, "Tests Conducted at the Accurate Arms Ballistics Laboratory: .30/06 Springfield, Match Prepped Cases, Sierra 168 MK AT 3.3" OAL:"

Of course, I can't remember which magazine it was in: My first guess would be "Varmint Hunter", but maybe "Rifle" or "Handloader". I hope these clues will help you find it.

EDIT: Found it! It was, in fact, in Varmint Hunter, #83, page 72.

FEENIX

quote:Originally posted by Ambrose
It was printed in one of the gun magazines I subscribe to. I scanned it and put the copy in one of my "gun logs" so I wouldn't lose it or lose track of the study. I wrote "Summer 2012" and "M. L. McPherson" on the copy. It's called, PRIMER SUBSTITTION STUDY, subtitled, "Tests Conducted at the Accurate Arms Ballistics Laboratory: .30/06 Springfield, Match Prepped Cases, Sierra 168 MK AT 3.3" OAL:"

Of course, I can't remember which magazine it was in: My first guess would be "Varmint Hunter", but maybe "Rifle" or "Handloader". I hope these clues will help you find it.

EDIT: Found it! It was, in fact, in Varmint Hunter, #83, page 72.


Is it this one?



If so, see pg 37 of Handloader's Digest at http://tinyurl.com/mj56uua

Ambrose

Yes, that appears to be from the same test. The Varmint Hunter magazine reprint of that test shows nine more entries and includes Alcan standard and magnum primers as well as retests of some of the other primers.

I was surprised to see the CCI-350 large pistol magnum primer so far up the list!

nemesisenforcer

quote:Originally posted by bpost
I shoot a lot of them; they are fine for middle of the road jacketed loads and for hard to ignite powders. Loads over 60-70 grains may benefit from them too. At one time Winchester made one primer for magnum and standard loads.

I use them with reduced loads of VV 133, IMR 4198 and IMR 4895 with cast bullet rifle loads all the time. Standard deviation is acceptable and accuracy is fine.

Got 2,500 of the FEDERAL mag Large Rifle primers for 20 bucks a couple of years back from a guy getting out of reloading.


who in the world would ever get out of reloading?

jonk

When you really think about it, the amount of extra priming compound pales in comparison with the changes in pressure you create with different amounts of powder. I've done it. Just start a grain or two under the start loads and work up watching for pressure signs, and consider a grain or two under the max load as published to be your max unless you have access to pressure testing gear (some members here do).

v35

Seems to me there needs to be brisance standardization for any given primer size; both pistol and rifle as well as magnum and bench rest versions.
Those pressure variations make one sit up and take notice.

bpost

quote:Originally posted by v35
Seems to me there needs to be brisance standardization for any given primer size; both pistol and rifle as well as magnum and bench rest versions.
Those pressure variations make one sit up and take notice.


With primers using various compounds it might be a nightmare to establish some sort of standard. Some burn longer, some burn hotter but shorter. With the miniscule amount of priming compound actually in the cup I would imagine lot to lot variables are a nightmare for the manufacturers to deal with.

Back a few years ago when the primer shortage was at its worst I spent hours over the chronograph playing with different powders and primers in cast bullet rifle loads. As JONK suggests I found the difference in .3 grains of powder to have a bigger impact than switching from Remington LR primers to WLRM did.

I do remember the Remington primers were consistently the poorest performer when looking at the SD numbers. But when shooting a war surplus MN 91-30 another 100 FPS difference in MV has little impact on the bullet impact.

RCrosby

FWIW, I did some testing with CCI 300 and 350's in 44 mag with 2400. Accuracy and chronographed velocity were identical with 21/2400/CCI 350 as with 22/2400 and the 300.
As for the reference to half a charge of 4831 I wouldn't recommend that with ANY primer, but that's a whole 'mother story.[:D]