Dillon XL650 accuracy questions

bambihunter

*Note* I'm not new to reloading, but it's been quite a while, and then it was an old, cheap, and slow machinery so I'm a little intimidated stepping back back behind the handle, but I'm confident it'll come back to me once I read through the manual and watch the video, etc...

I've been a fan of Dillon for years mostly due to their incredible warranty and customer service. I now have the money saved for a nice reloading setup. For the longest time I had assumed I'd get a single stage press for rifles, partially because I don't shoot a lot of centerfire rifles (mostly .300 win mag) and partially because of it being more accurate.

I also figured I'd later get a high volume progessive press for my centerfire pistols (mostly 10mm, and an occasional .380 which I could skip...)

However, when reading the Dillon literature it stated their progressives (I was specifically reading about the XL650) held accuracy to sub-MOA.



So, this brings me to my questions (finally)
1. Do the Dillon progressives really live up to those claims of accuracy?
2. Since I will be shooting basically stock factory rifles for the forseeable future, is there any point of a single-stage anyway? Or, will the minimal accuracy gains be lost on this rifle (Remington 700 BDL SS DM)?
3. How hard is it to work up new loads on this progressive? Would a person still want a single stage for this use anyway?

4. In your opinions, are there any add-ons (specifically for the press) that aren't included that are more or less "must-haves" in your opinions to get should I decide to get one (besides the dies, calipers, scales, etc; I mean stuff like cartridge feeder, or roller handle, etc.)?
Just in case... I'll ask this one too: If you could only afford either the primer filler or the cartridge feeder, which would it be?

Feel free to post any other opinions, problems, praise, etc. relating to this model, or the Dillon company in general.



As always guys, thanks a LOT!

Warbirds

bambi- The dillon is a very good press, I would keep your single stage press, as it is easier to work up the magic load on since you only make the bullets a few at a time, go shoot them, make adjustments, then go back out and shoot, and on and on. Once you've found the load you want to go with you can then think about mass producing the ammo, and it will take some time to get everything adjusted just right on the dillon but once you do everything will be really consistent. Most of the guys I know on the Navy Rifle team (I don't have the time), reload all thier match ammo on Dillon 550's but with a .300 win mag you're probably not going out to the range to run through 40 or 50 rounds, It might be a waste of money getting a conversion kit ($75 or so) for a dillon progressive press, I reload all my handgun ammo on a dillon progressive press, all my shotgun ammo on an RCBS progressive press, but large rifle I do on a single stage because I just don't go through as much ammo at the range with a large rifle so I don't need as much. I think you can live without the roller handle, the strong mount is nice but not an absolute must have, and you don't need the low powder warning (powder is right in front of you), but the low primer one is handy. And if I "could only afford either the primer filler or the cartridge feeder, which would it be?" I would just go with a dillon 550 and buy a couple extra caliber conversion kits. Having a caliber conversion for each thing your going to reload really helps save some time switching in between calibers. I don't think that the time gains from the 650 are really worth the money unless your out shooting five or six days a week, in four or five different calibers. Of course others may swear that the 650 is the only way to go, so don't rush out and buy a 550 based of my opinion alone.

R/

Dave

People everywhere confuse what they read in newspapers with news.

-- A. J. Liebling

SKYDIVER386

bambi,
I have both a Dillon 650 and a 550 and if I had it to do all over again, I would just go with the 550. I do have a Rockchucker that I occasionally use for rifle loads, but I'm convinced that after you get the press set up, you are better off with a progressive. Here are my reasons why;

#1. The dies on a Dillon never move, even when you change calibers, because you remove the toolhead w/ dies and all. Just 2 pins, thats all. Screwing dies in and out of a single stage press to change caliber is a pain and cannot be as accurate as a die set that never gets removed. Even with a lock ring, I dont think you can get dies back in a single stage press as accuratley as ones that never leave a toolhead like you have on a Dillon.

#2. With a single stage press you have to change out dies several times just to load one batch of ammo. First the sizing/de-priming die, then maybe a die to bell the case mouth, and another to seat the bullet, a crimp die if the seating die did'nt give the right crimp. Not all of these are needed and can be done with as little as a 2 die set for rifle loads, but you get the idea. If you load several calibers of rifle and pistol, a progressive like the Dillon is much faster and easier to change over. Just remove the toolhead and shellplate and put it on the stand that you buy from Dillon, slip the new ones in and Viola, you are ready to load with very few adjustments.

#3. Dillon has the best reputation in the industry for good reason. I had trouble getting my presses set up when I first bought them and I actually drove to Dillons plant to get help (I live in AZ). They were as good a people as you could ever hope to meet and they explained every step as we put my machine together. Any company that goes to these lengths to make a customer happy deserves my buisness. You will never be sorry you bought a Dillon.

#4. For load development, I think a progressive is better than a single stage press because you already have everything set up on the toolhead. See #2 above. Rather than spinning dies in and out of a single stage press, just make adjustments to the sizing die, powder measure, seating die, etc as they sit on the toolhead. Just load X number of rounds, note your settings/measurements and box the rounds with those notes on them, make your adjustments and load the next batch. See how easy this can be with everything mounted together and no need to move anything between batches? Just make sure you only change one thing between batches.

My recommendation would be to get an RL550 with conversions for all the calibers that you load. The current Dillon catalog lists shellplate conversion kits for $38.95 for most calibers and deluxe toolhead quick change assemblies for $76.95 that include a powder measure. If you wanted to go the cheap route, just buy a toolhead and dies for each caliber and get the powder dies so you can use the same powder measure with all your toolheads. Assuming you already have case prep gear, powder scale etc, the spare parts and accessories that I would get are;

bench wrench
extra primer pickup tubes
an RL550 spare parts kit
machine cover
spare toolhead stands

The strongmount and roller handle are nice, but not needed. This can all be a big initial outlay of cash, but I know you will be more than happy with it. Best of luck to you.



"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."
Sir Winston Churchill

JustC

Do you want absolute accuracy or consistent hunting accuracy? If you want to hunt,..then the dillon is probably unparralled. If you want the smallest hole possible,..the dillon ain't in the running. The only way to get that is single stage and monitoring every step of every round. The progresive press and the single stage are really for different purposes. For extreme acuracy work,.I HAVE TO verify the charge every time.

why chase the game when the bullet can get em from here?....
Got Balistics?

1911a1-fan

quote:Do you want absolute accuracy or consistent hunting accuracy? If you want to hunt,..then the dillon is probably unparralled. If you want the smallest hole possible,..the dillon ain't in the running. The only way to get that is single stage and monitoring every step of every round. The progresive press and the single stage are really for different purposes. For extreme acuracy work,.I HAVE TO verify the charge every time.

Justc you must not own one, they are as accurate as any trickle charge or other powder measure you can buy, and they only guarantee 1/10 of a grain accuracy, you can also use it just like a single stage{only load one bullet at a time}, and monitoring is no task at all, I have a light right above mine, and can verify everything at every stage, Dillon does not make them to be second best

JustC

show me a benchrest record set with a dillon prgressive. We load on arbor presses because there are no threads to screw up the alignment. The Rockchucker is still one of the most used presses to compete with threaded dies. I have no doubt that for the price you pay, they are very straight. But when I have to sit next to the likes of Bill Shehane, Rich DiSimone, Bruce Bear, etc,..I won't trust my performance to a progressive as I see a 1/10 variance at 1000yds to be too much. I bet there are some competitors using them,..but they are few and far between. I have up to 6hrs invested in match prep on 50 cases,..and every single round is measured in every way before it goes into the box.

I have considered the dillon for non-competition rigs,..and even on my LR hunting rigs,..but when the chips are down, I HAVE TO BE SURE of my ammo, and that means I go single stage and I put on my "* retentive" hat.

What is the average runout on a loaded round with the dillon? I would be interested to know as I am unwilling to take the $600 chance until I have more data. My competition redding dies on a threaded press and in-line dies on an arbor press are always under .001". But I am willing to learn and try new things,..that's what makes it fun and rewarding.[;)]

You'll never see me disrespect the dillon product as I know even without using one they are superb products,..but my benchrest habits die very hard and very slowly. I spent too much time getting everything perfect to give up on my methods unless I see it prove me wrong,..and that has and will happen again,..I am sure of it.

why chase the game when the bullet can get em from here?....
Got Balistics?

SKYDIVER386

Gentlemen, the original question as it was asked by bambihunter pertained to his Rem 700 bdl with a factory barrel. I will fully agree that a single stage loader like the Rockchucker may possibly load SLIGHTLY better ammo than a progressive like a Dillon will when extreme care is taken in the loading and Match procedures are used. BUT, in a stock Rem 700 things like case preperation, neck tension, seating depth, etc. will play a much larger part in making an accurate load than the choice of a press. I'm also not convinced that one press loads better ammo than another, but that the care used in making the ammo with a single stage press is what makes the difference.

I keep my single stage loader around for making the best loads possible when I have a Match coming up, but for my standard rifles and hunting loads, I have found the Dillon progressive to be much easier and faster to work with. For his present rifle and needs, I think a Dillon would be a good deal for him.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."
Sir Winston Churchill

gunnut505

The press isn't the magic here; it's the shooter.

If you want; you can take an entire week checking and measuring and tweaking cases, but they all do the same thing when you start to squeeze them, and stuff primers in them, and force bullets into them.
I do not have the time, patience, or need for ZERO runout on anything I shoot; and probably do better in my ignorance.
I load the .300 Win Mag on my RL550b, a lot of it. I also load a lot of other stuff for rifles and handguns on it. I hit where I aim (most times), and that's what I'm looking for.

When I get involved in BR shooting; I'll probably go back to the caveman days and sit in front of my single stages, hoping to glean that last little bit of accuracy out of a single cartridge; but until then, I'll just pull the handle on my Dillon and shoot whatever comes out.

"Qui non est hodie cras minus aptus erit" --OVID

JustC

I can see the point of non-competitive loading and it's merits for most people. I also have wondered how long it would take for the difference of the price of the dillon compared to the rockchucker to reach a break-even point considering the same components being used.

I like sleeved dies because they eliminate the mis-alingment that most often occures during the seating process. The In-Line dies also greatly help with that. The one thing I just can't seem to trust, no matter who makes it,.is a powder thrower. I have one with micromoter adjustments and baffles and long drop tubes etc. However, unless you weigh every charge, you'll never know which ones are the ones that were heavy or light by more than the .1gr,..which happens with all of them. My Pact combo throws charges while I seat the previous round and check for runout. That has made my loading time about 1/3 what it used to be when I trickled by hand. If it weren't for the integrated powder thrower,..I might be looking in the dillon direction. When they make one with a digital dispensor,..then I will own one of the first ones[:D][8D]



why chase the game when the bullet can get em from here?....
Got Balistics?