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Seating too deep into the lands...TIP...
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Member Posts: 168,427 ✭
Just a tip...I have one rifle that I seat .01 into the lands. This works fine when shooting at the bench and is usually not a problem otherwise. However, my son was using this rifle to hunt with last week and we had a bullet get stuck in the rifling. I had to use a stick to tap the bolt open, which of course sent gun powder spilling all over the place. I then had to take the rifle home to remove the stuck bullet. Seating bullets too far into the lands could pose to be a small problem for hunting applications.
If the powder hadn't spilled out of the case, I probably could have reseated the brass around the bullet and fired it out of the bore (as a last resort, in the field, solution)...
If the powder hadn't spilled out of the case, I probably could have reseated the brass around the bullet and fired it out of the bore (as a last resort, in the field, solution)...
Comments
Good tip another method is; don't carry a rifle with one in the chamber while hunting, I never do.
I always do...I don't carry a gun without a bullet in the chamber.
Skyfish...we are still working on it! I really limit myself with bow hunting...but I have a 4 day rifle season coming up and then late archery in Dec. [:)]
quote:Originally posted by bpost
Good tip another method is; don't carry a rifle with one in the chamber while hunting, I never do.
I always do...I don't carry a gun without a bullet in the chamber.
Skyfish...we are still working on it! I really limit myself with bow hunting...but I have a 4 day rifle season coming up and then late archery in Dec. [:)]
a lot of good those brenneke slugs do if you have to dig for them when that grizzly is about ready to chomp down on you [8D]
Once I reach my initial destination There is one in the pipe cocked and locked. I love my M77 with the three position safety just for simple fact that it locks the Firing pin back.
I hear folks on both sides of this issue 9 out of 10 of the "I won't carry a rifle loaded" will carry a 45 cocked and locked
to them I ask what's the difference?
It would be well to run hunting ammunition through the action before the hunt to be sure it would feed and, if necessary, unload without such problems. And to actually shoot some of it loading from the magazine before you leave home.
Or don't get so consumed with the Gunzine and Internet Quest for the Mighty Minute of Angle that you give up reliability and flexiblity.
It would be well to run hunting ammunition through the action before the hunt to be sure it would feed and, if necessary, unload without such problems. And to actually shoot some of it loading from the magazine before you leave home.
Oh...it feeds no problem...and shoots even better. Getting a loaded bullet out of the chamber is another question. This is the first time I've had a stuck bullet...and the next round did not hang up in the rifling at all. I think it may have had something to do with the fact that I pulled a dry patch through the bore the night before b/c we had been hunting in the rain...it most likely removed the Kroil and helped my bullet to get hung up.
The ammunition is 100% reliable though...the only potential issue you may have is when unloading the gun.
I started to do this, got in trouble real quick as the mag box didn't allow for it turning my bolt gun into a single shot. I learned quick that you could produce accurate affordable ammo without loading long with a little more time on the bench, that and a factory crimp die which for all intensive proposes does the exact same thing as loading long which keeps the bullet in the case long enough for the pressure to build evenly from shoot to shot.
The "average" hunter in and "average" situation will see none if any advantage to loading a cartridge longer than the book specifies.
I started to do this, got in trouble real quick as the mag box didn't allow for it turning my bolt gun into a single shot. I learned quick that you could produce accurate affordable ammo without loading long with a little more time on the bench, that and a factory crimp die which for all intensive proposes does the exact same thing as loading long which keeps the bullet in the case long enough for the pressure to build evenly from shoot to shot.
The rounds fit into the magazine well just fine. I do not crimp my bolt action rifle ammunition. I've found that my accuracy increases without a crimp. Seating into the lands has less to do with pressures and more to do with bullet jump. I do not seat into the lands to increase pressures. There is absolutely not need for a crimp.
JustC...that was the point of my post. This is the first time I've encountered this situation. This particular rifle likes to be seated into the lands though...it makes a huge difference in the accuracy. [:)] It kind of sucks to have to put a VLD hunting bullet into the dirt after every hunt! [:D] I guess I'm just cheap.[:I]
It kind of sucks to have to put a VLD hunting bullet into the dirt after every hunt! [:D] I guess I'm just cheap.[:I]
Me too! that is why I have always hunted big game with the chamber empty.[;)] I never lost a shot because of racking the bolt. AFTER the game was down I kept one up the pipe because of bears.
quote:Originally posted by Odawgp
The "average" hunter in and "average" situation will see none if any advantage to loading a cartridge longer than the book specifies. very true also for hunting rifles!
I started to do this, got in trouble real quick as the mag box didn't allow for it turning my bolt gun into a single shot. I learned quick that you could produce accurate affordable ammo without loading long with a little more time on the bench, that and a factory crimp die which for all intensive proposes does the exact same thing as loading long which keeps the bullet in the case long enough for the pressure to build evenly from shoot to shot.
The rounds fit into the magazine well just fine. I do not crimp my bolt action rifle ammunition. I've found that my accuracy increases without a crimp. Seating into the lands has less to do with pressures and more to do with bullet jump. I do not seat into the lands to increase pressures. There is absolutely not need for a crimp.
JustC...that was the point of my post. This is the first time I've encountered this situation. This particular rifle likes to be seated into the lands though...it makes a huge difference in the accuracy. [:)] It kind of sucks to have to put a VLD hunting bullet into the dirt after every hunt! [:D] I guess I'm just cheap.[:I]
I noticed this statement:
I've found that my accuracy increases without a crimp.
I also believed this, but found from extensive testing that if a bullet has a crimping cannelure and a logged test is conducted of this bullet using a PROPER crimp and without a crimp, I have yet too see a group average where the non-crimp would produce the better group average! But I normally do not use a crimp because most of the hunting bullet I reload do not have a crimp cannelure, and I make sure that the bullet IS NOT touching the lands, mainly due to the same experience you had, and I always chamber test my hunting ammo BEFORE going hunting! Chamber testing RELOADED ammo seems to help reduce Murphy's Law!
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:Originally posted by Odawgp
The "average" hunter in and "average" situation will see none if any advantage to loading a cartridge longer than the book specifies. very true also for hunting rifles!
I started to do this, got in trouble real quick as the mag box didn't allow for it turning my bolt gun into a single shot. I learned quick that you could produce accurate affordable ammo without loading long with a little more time on the bench, that and a factory crimp die which for all intensive proposes does the exact same thing as loading long which keeps the bullet in the case long enough for the pressure to build evenly from shoot to shot.
The rounds fit into the magazine well just fine. I do not crimp my bolt action rifle ammunition. I've found that my accuracy increases without a crimp. Seating into the lands has less to do with pressures and more to do with bullet jump. I do not seat into the lands to increase pressures. There is absolutely not need for a crimp.
JustC...that was the point of my post. This is the first time I've encountered this situation. This particular rifle likes to be seated into the lands though...it makes a huge difference in the accuracy. [:)] It kind of sucks to have to put a VLD hunting bullet into the dirt after every hunt! [:D] I guess I'm just cheap.[:I]
I noticed this statement:
I've found that my accuracy increases without a crimp.
I also believed this, but found from extensive testing that if a bullet has a crimping cannelure and a logged test is conducted of this bullet using a PROPER crimp and without a crimp, I have yet too see a group average where the non-crimp would produce the better group average! But I normally do not use a crimp because most of the hunting bullet I reload do not have a crimp cannelure, and I make sure that the bullet IS NOT touching the lands, mainly due to the same experience you had, and I always chamber test my hunting ammo BEFORE going hunting! Chamber testing RELOADED ammo seems to help reduce Murphy's Law!
Were you testing in a factory chamber or a match grade chamber?? That is the big difference? A factory chamber is loose, and has a long throat (thank the lawyers) and a match chamber has a short throat and tight dimensions. A match chamber is far more sensitive to seating depth, as well as neck tension. A crimped round is far less accurate than a neck sized, neck tension round, especially when coupled with a short throat.
The "jump" to the rifling in factory barrels is far more forgiving, but the jump to the lands in a match chamber creates a LOT of variance in group size. When using a long bullet (long range pill) the amount of freebore can and will distort accuracy by a TON. Sleek long range pills, and match chambers are very particular in their preference, whereas a factory chamber sees little change in seating depth. This is the conundrum you must face when hunting with an aftermarket barrel done by a good gunsmith. Sometimes, the jamm seat is where the accuracy is, but it isn't user friendly when hunting.
I don't feed a match round until I am committed to shooting the animal/target. That takes the whole jamm seat issue off the table.