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Which caliber?

mkirklandmkirkland Member Posts: 1,040 ✭✭✭✭
I have a number of guns, but I am looking for my final rifle (for now[;)]) to add to the collection. I have all I need for varmint, plinking, shotgunning, but I want one final hunting rifle that I can also use for medium range target shooting (500-700 yds) Am looking at the Rem. 700 in .270. I have a .243, and a couple of 30-30's, but don't have a bigger caliber for bigger game. What do you guys think?[?]
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Comments

  • IdahoRedneckIdahoRedneck Member Posts: 2,699
    edited November -1
    300 ultra mag.............[:)] But I am Biased[:D]
  • JustCJustC Member Posts: 16,055 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    260rem with 140gr loads.
  • perry shooterperry shooter Member Posts: 17,390
    edited November -1
    375H&H classic big bore with push rather then Jarring recoil in a well designed BUTT-STOCK.
  • skyfishskyfish Member Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I like the 7mm-08, but I may step up to the 7mm Rem Mag(or possibly the .280) depending on your hunting. I think the 7mm-08 will still be pleasant to shoot at range. If you reload it will do great at 600 yards plus with high BC bullets.

    If you want a 30, I like the 300WSM, I have a 270WSM and love it. I would shoot up to elk with it and maybe moose. Would go bigger for big bear, that's why I say 300WSM. That is all assuming you reload, if not 30-06.

    Rifle, I like the x-bolt and tikka for hunting, lite. Savage is my favorite range gun. I also shoot a Howa heavy barrel(price is right). Can't go wrong with the right Rem or Winchester.

    That's my opinion, I find less recoil means I shoot more at the range. I still like the 257 Roberts best. If I just come across the right 260 Rem that may change.
  • buddybbuddyb Member Posts: 4,775 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
  • carbine100carbine100 Member Posts: 3,165 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    The original short mag, .284 Win.

    JustC mentioned another great loading .260 Rem.

    skyfish, I do like the 7mm-08 too.

    But Jack smiles when we talk .270 WIN.

    The above are my four favorite whitetail choices.

    Now for the rifles;
    .284 http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=162379440

    .260 Rem http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=161786840

    7mm-08 http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=161847484
    or
    http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=161536088
    depending on your taste

    .270 Win http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=162250115
  • mbsamsmbsams Member Posts: 1,076 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
  • sandwarriorsandwarrior Member Posts: 5,453 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    mkirkland,

    It depends on whether or not you like the magnum range or standard caliber range. The magnums can give you up to a couple hundred yards extra of necessary energy if you feel like you need to take some long shots.

    My suggestion for those would be:

    300WSM A step up in energy from the 30-06 but not as much recoil as the 300 WM (300 RSAUM fits this bill as well)
    300 WM THE standard among magnums. Provides more power than the 300 WSM. And more recoil.
    7mm Rem mag, THE standard for faster flatter shooting magnums (although the .264 beats it but doesn't have as heavy of bullets) (7WSM and 7 RSAUM {if you can find them} work here too).

    For standard calibers:

    30-06, THE standard by which all cartridges are judged against. It has enough power to take ANYTHING in North America and for that matter the world. And it has. Recoil is considerably less than a magnum rifle of the same weight. These are typically accurate to as far as the shooter can shoot. Up until this past year or two you could always find it o the shelf. Not anymore.
    .308 The next step down from the 30-06 but nearly as powerful. Less recoil to boot. It can also take anything in North America as well as the rest of the world. But, by the time it came along laws were in place preventing its use in that endeavor. A full range of bullets to use (same as 30-06) and very very common on 600 yd competition lines. Less so at 1000 but with the right bullets will do that too. (.300 Savage fits the bill nicely here too)
    .280 Rem/.270 Win These two are about equal in most every respect. Except the .270 came along in 1925 and the .280 Came along in the late fifties. For some reason people now think the .270 is obsolete. It is anything but. These will both take a slightly lighter but more aerodynamic bullet and push it as fast or faster than the 30-06. You can always find .270 on the shelf {as opposed to 30-06 and .308}. If you reload you have a slightly better bullet choice for the 7mm/.280.
    7mm-08, Same as the .308 is to the 30-08. Necked down slight reduction in power but a much better proportion reduction in recoil and powder use. This is IMNSHO the most overlooked cartridge on the shelf today. The best ballistic caliber with a very efficient case. The 7x57 Mauser is nearly identical in ballistics and HAS ALSO taken every species of game in this world (specifically dangerous game). Again, great ballistics, enough power, the right bullet, and the right shot. Shelf stuff (7x57) is a little on the weak side though.
    8mm Mauser Every bit as powerfull as the 30-06 if you handload. Factory stuff on the shelf is kind of weak though.
    338 Fed Again using that efficient .308 case this got necked up to .338 cal and it provides heavy knockdown at short to medium ranges. It takes a magnum case to take advantage of the super high BC bullets in this caliber though.

    Those are some ideas for you to run through, if that helps. My first two choices would be the 7mm-08 and the .308. The .308 here hasn't been on shelves very consistently though as of late. All the more reason to reload I think. Or, you could go with a magnum.
  • mkirklandmkirkland Member Posts: 1,040 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Wow guys! I thought I would be able to get one utility rifle for hunting and target shooting, but I think once I get one it will be like any other thing with me. I will need another safe! Sheesh. So many options. I am planning on reloading. Already bought ABCs of Reloading and Lee's modern reloading. I have a Challenger press from an earlier interest in reloading, and a couple of sets of dies. Thinking about buying 200 rounds, sighting in a new rifle, and then using the brass to embark on the reloading journey. Geez, now which round? 30-06 seems to be the standard in everyones arsenal. And truth be told it seems to be a very capable and versatile round. I don't see how I could go wrong with one of my own. But there are also rounds that are faster, shoot flatter, faster and have just as much punch at distance. I guess I will spend some moretime with this decision before my next purchase. Thank you so much for the advice and detailed information, although I do believe it has opened up an entirely new can of worms for me. I guess the research is part of the fun.[8D]
  • bpostbpost Member Posts: 32,212 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    338 Winchester mag.
  • grandmangrandman Member Posts: 183 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    .338 Lapua, or 30-378 mag.
  • rsnyder55rsnyder55 Member Posts: 2,626
    edited November -1
    I have found my 300WM handles just about anything I've gone after, especially since you are reloading.
  • FEENIXFEENIX Member Posts: 10,559 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by rsnyder55
    I have found my 300WM handles just about anything I've gone after, especially since you are reloading.


    Another vote for the .300 WM. I have other smaller and bigger calibers but the .300 WM is my go to caliber for antelope to moose size game using 200gr NABs ... my back up is another .300 WM [:p][}:)][^].
  • excavmanexcavman Member Posts: 39 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    You guys are in the mid caliber/super mag/do-it-all rut. If you want a big caliber, mid-range, big game, fun to reload and shoot rifle get an 1874 Sharps in 45-70. Lots of nice replicas out there. It will also improve your hunting ability.
  • sandwarriorsandwarrior Member Posts: 5,453 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by excavman
    You guys are in the mid caliber/super mag/do-it-all rut. If you want a big caliber, mid-range, big game, fun to reload and shoot rifle get an 1874 Sharps in 45-70. Lots of nice replicas out there. It will also improve your hunting ability.


    True, or any other lever gun that shoots a .38-55 or .45-70. If strictly considering the Sharps you may want a .45-90/100/110, or a .50-110. Lots of those * powder caliber types out there. The lever gun will limit you pretty much to those competitions because they are not at all competitive with mid caliber/super magnum/do-it-all rifles.

    Another thought, since that door got opened is .444 or .450 Marlin. Again though you won't have a competitive target rifle.
  • uni82uni82 Member Posts: 416 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    30-06 190 gr bthp. i have gotten unbelievable success with it. can take all of north american game. pinged at 600 yard targets all day long. still has great knock down power at that range. cheaper to load than a magnum and 30 caliber pills are easy to come by as is the brass. for cost, 30-06 is the way to go (IMHO).

    -jd
  • 1988z011988z01 Member Posts: 602 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Wow, you certainly seem to be getting a lot of suggestions. I have an older Remington model 700 in a .270, and I have to say it is absoluely WICKED. I do wish I still had my 7mm Mag in the 700 as well. The 270 shoots pretty flat, and is really cheap to reload. I have a 300 Win Mag in the 700 as well. Much better for reaching out and touching someone, but the recoil is a lot worse. I have a brake on mine, and now it's just loud. It is an awesome gun. You just need to be sure and let it cool down between shots. As far as the Lapua? I have one of those in the 700. TOO EXPENSIVE in EVERY aspect. I am sure it will need a lot of tenderness to keep the barrel from burning out. You have so many good suggestions already. I will be interested to see what you go with. Hey, don't forget the parent to the 270. The 30-06 is a must have for me. Every safe outta have at least 2. Not only that, you can pick up PILES of ammo at gun shows. It's probably ball ammo for a Garand, but the brass is GREAT for relaoding. There are also a lot of options in the 700 for a .308. I am not sure, but cost may be a factor. It always is for me. You can probably pick up a nice 30-06, or .270 on GB relatively cheap. As a matter of a fact, I am looking for one to be my son's for deer rifle.
    GOOD LUCK!!
  • grandmangrandman Member Posts: 183 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    .270, .308 win, or 30-06 all will do what you want it to do. The 30-06 will have a little more on the big end than the other two. If you want to get real fancy get a .338 Lupua Mag or 30-378 and have no worries that all will be well on the big end if you do your part.
  • Alan RushingAlan Rushing Member Posts: 9,002 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hello mkirkland,

    Boy! Choices, choices, choices! You have picked up one heck of a lot of suggestions and some pretty decent rational. Lot of favorites. What ever choose and get set-up with, it sure is fun thinking and comparing.

    However, regarding your question. Let me ask you some questions first if I may?

    1) Where do you live?
    2) Where will you hunt?
    3) What game do you hunt and what do you intend to hunt?
    4) What terrain are you expecting to hunt or having to contend with?
    5) What action are you wanting?
    6) What sort of sighting system/s and optics are you going to be be
    using?
    7) What is the least amount shooting you will do with this set-up
    (per year or per month)?
    8) What rifles or set-ups are you leaning towards?

    Like you already know there are a range of rigs that would no doubt cover all of your needs/wants.

    IF, sincere, and wanting something for serious 500-700 yard target shooting, that should thin out the cartridges and the formats considerably.
    IF, hunting game up to elk and/or moose, that too will thin out the contenders considerably.
    IF, prepared and skilled enough when you go, to take that sort of game at what ever distance you would consider, that too will thin out the potentials!

    Give me more info, and I'd be happy to go out on the limb with my suggestions.

    PS: You mention varmint hunting! How serious in yur estimation? For what sort of varmints? With what rig and optics, if you use? In what sort of terrain and distances? 'Cause that might give some indication of what you like and what you do.

    This is a lot of fun, isn't it?
  • 1988z011988z01 Member Posts: 602 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Alan Rushing
    Where do you live?
    Where will you hunt?
    What game do you hunt and what do you intend to hunt?
    What terrain are you expecting to hunt or having to contend with?
    What action are you wanting?
    What sighting will you be using?
    What is the least amount shooting you will do with this set-up?
    What particular rifles or rigs or set-ups, are you leaning towards for the cartridge? There are a range or formats.
    IF, sincere, and wanting something for serious 500-700 yard target shooting, that should thin out the cartridges and the formats considerably.


    Excellent Questions! All of these could have an impact on your decision.
  • bpostbpost Member Posts: 32,212 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by 1988z01
    quote:Originally posted by Alan Rushing
    Where do you live?
    Where will you hunt?
    What game do you hunt and what do you intend to hunt?
    What terrain are you expecting to hunt or having to contend with?
    What action are you wanting?
    What sighting will you be using?
    What is the least amount shooting you will do with this set-up?
    What particular rifles or rigs or set-ups, are you leaning towards for the cartridge? There are a range or formats.
    IF, sincere, and wanting something for serious 500-700 yard target shooting, that should thin out the cartridges and the formats considerably.


    Excellent Questions! All of these could have an impact on your decision.


    Looking at what you have now all you lack is MAJOR horse power. The 338 Winchester Mag is a great hunting round and if fed the newer match grade bullets is outstanding at long range, without the INSANE costs associated with the 338 Lapua Mag or the WOWOUCH recoil of the larger bores. Brass and dies are available and cheap. Just about every gun made is chambered for it and accuracy can be surprisingly good.
  • 1988z011988z01 Member Posts: 602 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:
    Looking at what you have now all you lack is MAJOR horse power. The 338 Winchester Mag is a great hunting round and if fed the newer match grade bullets is outstanding at long range, without the INSANE costs associated with the 338 Lapua Mag or the WOWOUCH recoil of the larger bores. Brass and dies are available and cheap. Just about every gun made is chambered for it and accuracy can be surprisingly good.


    I have to agree with BPOST. The 338 Lapua is VERY VERY costly, and you can most surely obtain all the enjoyment you could ever want with a 338 Winchester Mag, RUM, or even a 300 Winchester Mag. The 338 WM will definitely give you a lot of bang for the buck. TRUST ME. I have a 338 Lapua. I HAD to have it. It truly is awesome and I love it, but I get just as much or more enjoyment out of my 300 Winchester Magnum. For ANYTHING, shells are costly, brass is costly, powder and primers are skyrocketing each day, but this is even moreso with the Lapua. Not only that, for any rifle you can obtain awesome "recipies" for loads that get the most out of your particular rifle. I get so worried about burning the barrel out of the Lapua that I rarely shoot it. When I do, I let it cool for a LONG time. It's a Remington 700P. I won't be getting rid of my 300 WM anytime soon.
  • mkirklandmkirkland Member Posts: 1,040 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Where do you live? SoCal(LA) but in the process of relocating to a smaller community on the border of NV & CA.

    Where will you hunt? Eastern Sierra, central NV.

    What game do you hunt and what do you intend to hunt? Mule deer, Antelope, other various medium game, and maybe up to Elk.

    What terrain are you expecting to hunt or having to contend with? Mountainous, open valley's and flat lands (Read longer shots 100-250yds)

    What action are you wanting? Bolt

    What sort of sighting system/s and optics are you going to be be using? Looking at Leupold VXII

    What is the least amount shooting you will do with this set-up (per year or per month)? This is a tough one. Just had a kid and haven't moved to the country yet. When I did live in a rural area I would try to get out shooting twice a month. Mostly handgun and semi auto rifle plinking. I have aspirations of shooting this set-up maybe once a month for target, w/ increased outings before hunting season.

    What particular rifles or rigs or set-ups, are you leaning towards for the cartridge? Gosh, so many to choose from. I don't see myself getting really crazy and customizing. So i kind of want an out of the box system that is accurate w/ reliability at a bearable weight. But I also don't want to limit myself if I get the bug and want to spice things up. I am looking at the Remington 700 and Savage.(not too familiar with their models) Not set into a definite, and am not a brand kind of guy, although I have a disproportionate number of Rugers.

    I have a 22-250(Weatherby) for Varmints, .243 for small game, 30-30,.444Marlin, and some others, so the low, close, small game avenues are covered. Thanks for all of the opinions and help. This is quite fun for me! [8D]
  • Alan RushingAlan Rushing Member Posts: 9,002 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Mark, I had asked for more info and you were thorough and provided everything I had asked. It is more clear what and where you will be hunting. I'll throw my my thoughts, based on my experiences, biases and prejudices!

    IF you were to hunt only the Eastern Sierra, in CA. you'd be looking for Tule elk, Mule (eared) deer and antelope. The 25s, 6mms and up would cover that, at the distances that you state.

    If you were drawn for hunts in Northern CA. for bigger varieties of elk and/or black bear in timber and brush your 444 and cover the job well.

    There are the same antelope and mulies calling for the same medicine used elsewhaere. The .243 might be reasonable for the distances you are expecting. I would tend to use 280 and up.

    IF you will be living in the Eastern Sierra area you might want to apply for everything that you can as a non-resident in Nevada.

    IF hunting NV., there is quite a selection of terrain and game: antelope, Mule deer, larger, rangier elk, sheep, and goats. And many more of the longer, more open shots.

    What ever I hunted, I would be figuring the maximum distance my rifle, the cartridge and I would ever reasonably be expected to effectively anchor that game animal, with some variables thrown into the mix.

    Hey guys help me with this if you would ... Years ago I believe I had heard tell that 1000 ft-pds was sufficient for deer. My opinion would be that is maybe OK for antelope and the small black-tail deer in the open. I would figure ~6mm, 243, 25s, 270, 280 adequate, but now favor the upper end of those.

    For mulies and larger I would be wanting incrementally more umphff! A lot of black-tails and mulies have been taken with 6mm, 243 and 25 calibers. I never expect to use them for mule deer and larger game. There is nothing wrong with the cartridges and they have taken many game animals handily.

    For the open spaces, the .280s and above show me more potential for game, situations, conditions and added assurances. My comfort level is now at the 7mm Rem Mag or above for most of my style of hunting in my favorite terrain. I appreciate having the cartridge that is more than adequate for any reasonable situation that I find myself. I appreciate having the capability of taking the best of the game I can find, rather than waiting for the closest shot I can get at whatever I am hunting.

    I want a 95% probability of anchoring it right where it is when I shoot! For me anymore, I'd not want anything lighter than a solid hitting .280 or 7mm Rem Mag loaded appropriately to hunt mulies or sheep and more.

    I have nothing against the short magnums, but if hunting in the wide open spaces, I believe that they would limit the distances that I would prefer to cover more than adequately. I would use them if I had them, but they might well limit me, rather than I them.

    For distances greater than you state or for the larger or tougher game (elk and goats) I would quickly up the antee and use a full magnum.

    With the full mags, if I had a belted, I would use it with confidence. If hunting for a full mag, I would be hunting for a non-belted mag. (If you came into a very sweet deal on a full, belted mag, with the rig that you want, you might want to consider. There are some nice deals out there.)

    I am not interested in pushing Chevys, Fords, Dodges, or Mercedes, for the brand's sake; nor Winchester, Remington, Ruger, or Weatherby, etc. I'd suggest, as you infer, get the vehicle or machine that will take whatever you want to transport, from where you are, to where you want it delivered. The right package, to the right place, quickly and efficiently.

    It doesn't matter if it is a Winchester cartridge made by Norma out of a Remington barrel on whatever rig. Your best: shot, cartridge, bullet, rifle, and optics ... that you can afford ... to purchase, carry and use for the game in it's terrain. For me, I appreciate flat trajectory, with more than adequate foot - pounds, accurately delivered. (Some say "speed kills".)

    You are going to be in some areas of wide-open spaces. The distances that you mention are modest. I am not certain how you might hunt Mark ... whether you are more seditary or more mobile.

    If near a vehicle, weight of the rig is not a disadvantage. Longest and most accurate barrel, heavy and most stable platform, pushing the best BC bullet from the cartridge with the greatest potentials. Setting up for the grand distances, the weight of the rig is advantageous.

    If back-pack hunting, light could be right. For me, when back-pack hunting, having a light rig was not a high considration nor concern to me ... from 8 and a half to 12 is alright. (My hunting partner carried a 375 H&H that was ultra light ... different setting than yourself.)

    Right now I have two belted mags: 308 Norma and a 7mm Rem Mag that I have used a good bit. I can not picture the circumstances that I would ever again use any thing with lesser: trajectory, punch, accuracy, certainty or effectiveness then what they have.

    With some other rifles, I have two older Remington model 700s in: 7mm Rem Mag and .308 Norma (belted). For myself, I have been studying the "full" mags: belted some, but especially the non-belted. I am expecting to get myself a non-belted magnum, with significantly more umphfff and range of potential, for the hunting that I anticipate in the future.

    The 7mm mag is adequte for anything in CA or NV, and almost anything else.

    The 300s even more so, and adequate for anything in the Americas and just about anywhere else.

    The 338s are sufficient for serious hunting of serious bear. They cover all game from bear on down. They can be down loaded and probably should be, for anything else, and IMHO for us in particular.

    I'm not into masochism nor machoism. I have no rigs with brakes, but am a very strong proponent and would not hesitate to have one on each magnum, even if not needed. On the flip side, I can't imagine myself using any other magnums, that don't have the best brake that I can get. After investing for the best cartridge and rig that I can, I want to be able to shoot it often and enjoy it to the max.

    The Lapuas, price of ammo not the best characteristic. However, it is great at doing what it is supposed to do.

    The RUMs, good idea, flexable and adaptable cartridges for covering lots of ground also.

    The Normas, (new and all non-belted). Interested in knowing more about them.


    I have been checking into:
    1) the Rem 798 (Mauser 98 type action with claw-extractor...
    2) the Rem. Sendero ...
    3) the CZ rifles, the 550 Magnum (and the 700?) Mauser 98 type
    action with claw-extractor...

    How ever "over-the-top" I would go re. the cartridge, would push me towards the more "over-the-top" rig. The correct rig, could help realize the full potential of the cartridge, especially when shooting at the more extended distances.

    For me, I'm figuring that a good .300 is minimum and .338 is maximum for the characteristics I believe most important for the distances, terrain, areas, game and conditions that I expect to hunt. We both have a fair selection of other cartridges and capabilities.

    Prefer to be over-gunned, than under-gunned AND I like the idea of then down-loading rather than counting on up-loading to chase after the situation, because of something unexpected: bigger, badder or greater distances than anticipated!

    Please keep us informed of your adventure Mark!

    Happy hunting, with everything.
    Alan
  • grandmangrandman Member Posts: 183 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    With all of the info provided and if you just wanted an all round cartiage/caliber for anything in North America I would stick with the 300Wby Mag, if you have one you just know that you have it covered. Of coures there are the other 300`s but I personnely know that the 300Wby Mag will take anything in North America. You can load it with the many 30 caliber bullets on the market and use it for any type of hunting. I have seen this round in use for all types of game and has done very well. It shoots long range very effective and will stop a elk with 180 grain sierra`s.

    Yes, the .338 Lapua is expensive but for sure it will reach out to the ranges that you are talking about and beyond. If you wanted a .338 I would go with a .338 Win mag for the cost. The .338 is a little slower than the .300 Wby Mag and 30-378 but still has considerable engery at the big end. I don`t own one of these YET, but are considering one (.338 Lapua) for my next build project. I was suggesting one for the long range/power capibilaties, but that is a dicussion for another day.

    The 30-378 Wby Mag is a good choice for the long range/power on the big end and a good flat shooter. Granted, the kick is a bit much but the effect is even greater. You can load for these fairly cheap, abit more than 30-06, but it is more gun and a lot flatter shooter. With 200 grain boattails hollowpoints you can do rather well out to about 1000 yds with +18.75 inches of elevation.
  • sandwarriorsandwarrior Member Posts: 5,453 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    mrkirkland,

    When you get to where you are going up on the East side of the Sierra's, you are going to find that .243 is a deer killing machine. It is probably a better ticket for most antelope shooting as well. No need to go high horsepower on them. I killed half my deer (9) with a .243. That's pretty much the reason I left off all .257 and .264 caliber cartridges.

    Now, if your work does you well and you get the opportunity to go elk hunting in Nevada or any Western state around there then you may want to look at a magnum. I had originally suggested standard cartridges but what you have will pretty much suffice for where you're at for now. If you get the chance to get up to Alaska then you'll want more. Standard cartridges are adequate for 90% of your shooting but you'll want that added 10% assurance. The question then is what do you get to give you a flatter trajectory for longer shots and more energy for shots on dangerous game. The .338 WM comes to mind. Loaded with 200 gr. it can be pushed out at 2900 fps. That's about as flat as you'll get with any big bullet in a 7 mag. The real trajectory maker though is the 250+ weight bullets. But that takes tons of practice. The heavier for caliber bullets designed to maximize terminal performance is what you would need if you went after dangerous game.
    I wouldn't normally recommend a magnum of that size unless the door was wide open to your possibilities. If you just wanted a harder hitting flat shooter then I would go with the 7 Rem mag. That's plenty of energy for as far as you are going to shoot in NV. Which could be sometimes in the 600-800 yard range if you practice enough to actually shoot that far. Most cases you won't shoot beyond 300. 400 for most is pretty far.
    So, unless you plan to do some up North or off-continent hunting what you have will do. If you want to add one of the smaller magnums that's all you'll need. I will disagree with many here that you need to go one bigger with a magnum. I've watched many people's shooting go to crap because of that. If you get one spend some money on a muzzle brake and some more for practice. IMHO you just don't need that much more gun.

    -hope that helps.
  • 1988z011988z01 Member Posts: 602 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Hey guys help me with this if you would ... I believe that yeara ago I had heard tell that 1000 ft-pds was sufficient for deer. My opinion would be that is maybe OK for antelope and small black-tail deer in the open. But surely enough for fox, bobcat, and coyotes ... so for them I'd be figuring ~6mm, 243, 257, 270, 280 and less, (depending on keeping pelts and or not so on). So I agree, you have that end of things covered well.....

    My dad had a Marlin in a 44 magnum. As a kid in the 70's, I remember him having to pump round after round into a deer at close range just to end it. We almost stopped hunting after that experience. He traded it for a 444 Marlin. After killing a deer at 100+/-yards with my S&W .44 Magnum, the old hunting nightmare came up. When I bought some ammo because I was low on reloads, I had inadvetently gotten a box of .44 Specials. Now these things are pushing AT BEST 1000ft-pds. We got to thinking the same thing HAD to have happened to him. No way a .44 Mag could do so little so close, but a .44 special with low ft-pds had to be the answer. I haven't heard the 1000ft-pds actually stated, but we had pretty well determined that being undergunned could not be an option. It's just downright cruel.

    quote:7mm Rem Mag loaded appropriately to hunt mulies or sheep (and yes many people have done so, as have I, and many will do so hanily in the future ... not me......

    The stupidest thing I ever did was sell my 700 ADL 7mm Mag. I used to put holes in quaters and keep them on my keychain. Hitting the quarters was a lot easier than finding them after the shot. [:D]

    quote:I am not interested in pushing Chevys, Fords, Dodges, or what ever for the brands sake, nor Winchester, Remington, Ruger, etc., etc. I'd suggest just as you infer, get the vehicle or machine that will take whatever you want to carry from where you are to where you want to go.....

    Now here, we may have a little disagreement. I LOVE my Marlins and my Remingtons. Are there a lot better made rifles out there? You'd better believe it, but the CONFIDENCE I have in something I have had nothing but AWESOME memories, MUST be a factor in each and every shot. With all the bad press about the Remington 700P .338 Lapua (last years model), I could have saved a little more and purchased a Sako or Barrett, but I have ALWAYS loved those 700's.
    quote:The Lapuas, price of ammo not the best characteristic. However, it is great at doing what it is supposed to do.
    YES it does, and frankly after the initial costs of the gun, scope, and ammo, reloading isn't so bad, but lordy me mercy does it shoot

    quote:The RUMs, good idea, flexable and adaptable cartridges for covering lots of ground also.
    I have the Lapua, but I wish I would have looked into a 300 RUM or 338 RUM. Hey! There's always the next time I get to get the old lady angry!
    quote:The Norma (new and all non-belted). Interested in knowing more about them.....
    ME TOO. Definitely know VERY little other than a few articles here and there.
    quote:For me, I'm figuring that a good .300 is minimum and .338 is maximum for the characteristics I believe most important for the distances, terrain, areas, game and conditions that I expect to hunt. We both have a fair selection of other cartridges and capabilities.....
    At this point in my life, I would much prefer to be over-gunned, than under-gunned AND I like the idea of then down-loading rather than counting on up-loading to chase after the situation, because of something unexpected: bigger, badder or greater distances than anticipated! There is also the possibility in the future of hunting some thing larger or meaner. Some places that I would love to return to hunt, have things that go bump in the night, and hunt us for sport! So again, I lean towards more than needed, rather than less than needed.

    I agree with you here in A LOT of respects, especially with the experience when I was younger. However, FORCE still = MASS x ACCELERATION, and I love love love those little bullets that just BUST IT so fast (not burn the barrel fast). To me it is kind of like fishing and fishing line. The line you use should always correspond to the size and umph of the fish you will fight. I wouldn't fish for brim with 30 lb test, but I also wouldn't hunt a lion with my best kick * .22 hornet load either. Like you said before, the WHATS and WHERES are important questions as far as finding the right rifle.

    My next rifle will most likely be a 300 RUM, but I maintain that a gun safe should ALWAYS contain a 30-06. It's the parent cartridge to so many others for a reason.
  • jaegermisterjaegermister Member Posts: 692 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Boy have you stirred up the barn yard! Great reading! Question: You write "I want one final hunting rifle", you plan on dying soon?
  • Alan RushingAlan Rushing Member Posts: 9,002 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Just another one of those things that gets closer every day, right?
    The end of our tax year and the "sunset of our lives".

    However, I believe I recall him saying this was to be the last rifle ... for now !
  • mkirklandmkirkland Member Posts: 1,040 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    DANG!!! Now I feel like I need 5 more rifles, another 1000lb safe and 20,000 rounds![}:)] As far as this being my last rifle, thats what I tell the wife until I see something else I just gotta have. She's a trooper and usually gives in after a bit of negotiating.
    OK, I thought a .270WIN would be enough gun, but now am thinking I might just need to get a magnum. Although I want to be able to put some rounds down range for target without blowing my arm out. Sheesh, now I know why people (me included) have more guns than sense. I have been devouring the internet for info on different cartridges. It's amazing at the range of opinions on the subject. I don't have a 30-06, and that seems standard fare w/ a miriad of options bullet wise. But that said the cartridge world has come a long way and there are faster, flatter, harder hitting rounds since the good old days. I would love to put a round in a target at 1000yds, but how realistic is that? I really appreciate the time some of you have put into your responses to me, and I enjoy reading the facts and opinions of everyone here. I think a decision might not be as easy as I initially anticipated. Can't wait to get out on the firing line with my new rifle, whatever it may be. Oh and thanks for bringing up the Remington 798! haha, Instead of narrowing things down I think this has just opened a huge can of worms. I guess I will just have to buy more than one more after all! Thanks Guys!
  • sandwarriorsandwarrior Member Posts: 5,453 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    mrkirkland,

    Always funny how you should follow your gut instinct. A .270 is big enough for anything in the lower 48. No question about that. You don't need a magnum. I suggested it in case you do go somewhere outside the lower 48.

    As you mentioned the .270 you go back and take a look at it's ballistics. In my first post I stated it is anything but obsolete. It's just a smidge under the power of a 7mm Mag. And it will handle bullets up to 160 gr. That's almost as much as a 7mm Rem mag.

    Don't second guess yourself too bad. A .270 is not a bad rifle to have. And of course....it leaves the door open for one bigger[;)]somewhere down the road.[:D]
  • Alan RushingAlan Rushing Member Posts: 9,002 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    kirkland

    Well now, did this all help or hinder? It seems that you got a lot of good feedback!

    Regarding the magnums, I've only got the 308 Norma and my 7mm RM.

    Because of that fact, I've myself been asking and receiving feedback from everyone regarding the other magnums, especially the newer, fuller length, non-belted magnums.

    I wanted to mention, that regarding perceived recoil and muzzle blast, they and the 30-06 family of cartridges are on a par with one another (seemingly). The greatest differences that I have noted, have to do with the results of loading-up for a given cartridge to a hotter, faster load or bumping-up the weight of the bullet.

    The other difference is regarding the particular make and model, the fit, cut, weight and the recoil padding. But to me, one to another they seem to be comparable.
  • grumpygygrumpygy Member Posts: 53,466
    edited November -1
    Kind of fond of the .308 Norma Mag. Cause not everybody has one of those.
  • Alan RushingAlan Rushing Member Posts: 9,002 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hi Dave,

    That's one of my sentiments regarding the .308 Norma Mag. also.

    Then also is the fact that I recall searching high and low for such a critter when I was first looking for the "best" all around big game cartridge I could get my hands on.

    Back then I located beautiful custom builds that I could not even come close to touching ... but none the less, beautiful.

    Eventually saw some Husqvarna and the Schultz & Larsen. I never found them in any of the gunshops that I prowelled. Found them occasionally at the range, but I generally came across them with knowledgeable hunters. Especially, if they were familiar with European rifles and Cartridges. It seemed back then, that too many guys were either unfamiliar or seemingly anti-European or maybe had the prerequisite of American developed and American manufactured.

    The Normas though were not generally seen with the routine "Ford vs Chevy" shooter or hunter.

    I had best not heist this forum thread from Mark! It has been running nicely. I had best post a new topic. Would like to get input regarding loads for the Norma.
  • k_townmank_townman Member Posts: 3,588
    edited November -1
    9.3x62 Mauser. This is one of the best calibers I own. Very accurate in the CZ rifle. It will take down anything that lives in North America, and several other continents.
  • 1988z011988z01 Member Posts: 602 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by mkirkland
    DANG!!! OK, I thought a .270WIN would be enough gun, but now am thinking I might just need to get a magnum. Although I want to be able to put some rounds down range for target without blowing my arm out.

    Sandwarrior is right. You can't go wrong with a .270 WIN. Have one - LOVE IT. I do lament selling the 7mm Mag, but when it came to it, the .270 is the one I kept.

    As far as the 30-06. I still think everyone ought to have one, but it's still the .270's daddy. Just necked down a bit.

    In a nutshell, with all the info you put down, price, reloading ease, and satisfaction - I think the .270 would be an excellent choice.
  • Alan RushingAlan Rushing Member Posts: 9,002 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Unless it was filling in some gap in my line-up ... I myself would sure not be getting the 270 nor the 30-06 nor many of the other chamberings pushed here on this thread!!! ... but again that is what helps to make this such a kick!

    If I were going to be having a rifle because it related to many that have come since, why not one of them instead to represent the parent case?

    Otherwise I'd have the H&Hs and one would not do, I'd have to have several or it would not do! With those you'd to have the mothers to go with the dad (who ever he was)! In fact one should have not just several, but all, to represent the many belted mags that have come our way.

    And just a couple of the classic African Nitro work horse chamberings would do!

    You know they are the basis or cases for many, the 404 Jeffery vs the RUMs, the 416 Rigby and the several potent new Norma non-belted magnums and a lot of wildcats too.

    Then the Mausers are classics and should not be forgotten or many of the other European also and ma. How about the 308 and its children too?

    I'd take a minimum of a .280 in memory of the 30-06 or a 7 Rem Mag to rep the belted rims and all of the varied, but "lesser" but very interesting 7 mm s!

    I guess that this explains why the gun safes hold more than just one or two or just a mighty few!

    You take care and have a great week!
  • 1988z011988z01 Member Posts: 602 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by mkirkland
    I want one final hunting rifle that I can also use for medium range target shooting (500-700 yds) Am looking at the Rem. 700 in .270. I have a .243, and a couple of 30-30's, but don't have a bigger caliber for bigger game...Mule deer, Antelope, other various medium game, and maybe up to Elk.
    If you are going for Elk, this is why I originally bought the 300 WIN Mag and the 7mm Mag. As far as everything else, I would be very confident in my .270.

    quote:Originally posted by mkirkland
    30-06 seems to be the standard in everyones arsenal. And truth be told it seems to be a very capable and versatile round. I don't see how I could go wrong with one of my own. But there are also rounds that are faster, shoot flatter, faster and have just as much punch at distance.
    The 30-06 is probably the easiest to get into. Everything is readily available, and probably the most economical. As far as bigger, better, badder - you can bet ur safe combo.

    quote:Originally posted by mkirkland
    What terrain are you expecting to hunt or having to contend with? Mountainous, open valley's and flat lands (Read longer shots 100-250yds)
    What sort of...optics? Leupold VXII
    I have aspirations of shooting this set-up maybe once a month for target, w/ increased outings before hunting season.
    .270 and 30-06 are perfectly fine in 100-250 yards. Optics have come a LONG way. Just depends on your wallet. Mine ain't that big, and I still LOVE the Leupold (still not cheap). Just custom ordered a VX3-L. Never had a problem with them or their mounts, and I hope I never do. Not only that, I have a lot of confidence in them. They used to be the undisputed king, but just like new calibers, there are A LOT of other offerings.

    quote:Originally posted by mkirkland
    I would love to put a round in a target at 1000yds, but how realistic is that?
    Don't give up on that one. Now for this one, you are probably going to want the bigger stick, and there isn't ANYTHING wrong with the 7mm Mag or the 300 Win Mag. You now have me looking for another 7mm, and reloading yet another lot of 300 rounds.

    It really all depends on what you are really looking for, and how much you are compfortable investing. No one here knows that better than you. This topic has caused quite a stir. Why? Everyone loves to talk about their favorite acquisitions. Jeez Louise - Look at how much Alan and I have rambled.[:D] When you are ready to make the purchase, get the most out of the experience; take your time; scan GB daily; and go to your local stores. You never know what bargain you may find that might save you a few to work on that next last gun purchase.[:D][:D]
  • grandmangrandman Member Posts: 183 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Sandworrior was right that the .270 will take Elk out to a good distance, just ask anybody that lives in the midwestern states and they will tell you that they hunt Elk with .270 on a regular bases. Do not under estimate the potential of the 30-06 and the .270, they have taken many game all around the world. Read some the stories of the hunters from Africa and they will tell you that they hunted with them on the dark continent years ago with great success.
  • ENBLOCENBLOC Member Posts: 327 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    THE BEST:6.5 x 55 Swedish Mauser. End of discussion!!
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