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+P cases and +P pressures???

Okie743Okie743 Member Posts: 1,975 ✭✭✭
I see in some of the forums here that +P cases and +P pressures are mentioned in reference to reloading, buying cases etc.

I tried to re-search by google, etc and no definitions of such for reloading!
I do not see any mention of +P cases (brass for sale)??
+P is not mentioned in my OLD reloading books.

Can anyone explain? (clue me in)

Comments

  • Rocky RaabRocky Raab Member Posts: 11,040 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    In short, +P loads are slightly above the normal pressure standards for a given round. The .38 Special was the first to be loaded to +P pressures to increase its penetration a bit and to take advantage of larger revolvers chambered for it. It was a police issue, mostly. The actual increase wasn't much, not over an additional 2,000 psi or so, and neither was the velocity bump. But even that little was viewed as a benefit.

    Soon, other rounds were given +P loadings, including at least one rifle round (.257 Roberts). Today, there are a half-dozen or so. Cases marked +P are to my knowledge no different from standard cases. The marking is there to identify LOADED ammo with higher-than standard pressure. That's why you can't find virgin brass so marked.

    If you find +P loads in loading manuals (assuming your gun is rated for them) you can use any brass to create those loads. Just remember that the net benefit is minimal.
    I may be a bit crazy - but I didn't drive myself.
  • 243winxb243winxb Member Posts: 258 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Starline Brass website has info on there brass. 38 spec. brass all the same. 45acp is not. Rocky Raab covered it well, except you may see some brass/loaded ammo marked +P+ , this is for police only. I do not know if the brass is different, but its loaded to highest velocity, mostly 9mm if i remember correctly??
    [url] https://saami.org [/url]
  • 5mmgunguy5mmgunguy Member Posts: 3,853
    edited November -1
    I have only seen +P+ 9MM ammo. With the box saying for law enforcement use only.
  • e8gme8gm Member Posts: 1,277 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have hundreds of +P 38 spl cases that I picked up from an indoor range that base security used to qualify on. All are WCC headstamp and nickel plated.
  • reloader44magreloader44mag Member Posts: 19,356 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by e8gm
    I have hundreds of +P 38 spl cases that I picked up from an indoor range that base security used to qualify on. All are WCC headstamp and nickel plated.
    gotta love nickel plated cases...easy to clean and size....+P means higher pressures..and that is a reach.....reloader44mag
  • norgexxxnorgexxx Member Posts: 88 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Not to contradict any experts here, but: The official version on +p history I came across from a link on the Midway USA site, and may still be up there. The +p was developed after the Illinois State Police went to the higher capacity 9mm (beleive they were Glocks, but don't quote me on that part) to replace their six shot revolvers. They then soon discovered the 9mm did not have much proficiencey in keeping an impacted suspect incapacitated, and anytime you let someone remain in the fight decreases your odds of continued good health. So a rather hastily trial of ideas was advanced through the experimental stage and into production in record time. The result was a slightly heavier 9mm case (thickened base and wall, same size powder charge tho now modestly compressed due to the loss of volume because of making the case walls thicker, thus resulting in greater pressures=greater velocities= higher transferable energies onto the target= suspects that have been shot were now staying shot. I also think they went to a bigger projectile also, but not sure if it was 115gr to 124gr or 124gr to 148gr. The +P designation was originally stamped on this 'special contract' ammo going to Illinois to designate it as State Police ammo only, and for a while all +P was so designated. Tho now it is widley available as loaded ammo and unfired cases. And is currently on sale from various retail outlets as demand has diminished somewhat over the last several months. The story goes that the pistols in use handeled the transition with no problems, which would fit the glock process standards of always being slightly 'over-built'. As an aside, if you need a more powerful round, buy a bigger pistol in my book, I think the whole +P thing was a band-aid for a 'Chicago-land' political screw-up and somehow industry got carried away with it as a new marketing tool. I mean, come on, a .38spl+P, that has to have special made cylinders, or just buy a .357mag? Which makes more sense? 9mm+P or just buy the dang ,40S&W. +p IMHO all hype little common sense, but then some people will buy into anything. Just sayin
  • MobuckMobuck Member Posts: 11,557 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I sorted off the +P 38 brass from a 5 gallon bucket of range brass and loaded it with +P loads since we have a couple of older 38's which I really don't want to use the slightly hotter loads in. No difference in the brass that I know of.
  • Okie743Okie743 Member Posts: 1,975 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I sent a e-mail to the Hornady tech dept few days ago and got this response after I made this post!
    I asked the meaning of +P pressures and +P cases (brass) and I referenced a page in one of their reloading manuals mentioning the 257 Roberts and this was their reply! I wanted to know the meaning of +P in general and the Hornady tech never mentioned the +P pistol references!
    The 257 Roberts is the only rifle caliber so far that I have seen reference to the +P reference!


    this is Hornadys tech reply!

    the standard loading of the 257 Roberts has a PSI of 54000 and the +P has a PSI rating not to exceed 58000 Thanks
  • 243winxb243winxb Member Posts: 258 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Handgun ammo went thru its biggest change after the famous FBI shootout many years ago in 1986. Do a search an you will fine better info on the firefight. http://www.thegunzone.com/miami-ammo.html Federal Hydra-Shok ammo was born. Then the 10mm, but that was to much gun for most. The downloaded 40 S&W worked better for most, as it does today. Bullet design is very important, except in the 45acp. The 45acp does not have to expand to do its job.
    [url] https://saami.org [/url]
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