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.38 spec & .38 spec.+P recipes?

bambambambambambam Member Posts: 4,818 ✭✭✭
I just started loading metallic cartriges this week.I'm starting with .38 spec and +P's. I have Red Dot from shotgun and bought Unique, Bullseye, and HS-6 powder. I have Speer #4217 158gr JSP bullets. I also have Rem.1 1/2 and Win. small primers. I need some load data for these componets. Seems like all the manufactor websites have data for componets I don't have. Any and all help please.

Comments

  • bambambambambambam Member Posts: 4,818 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Also any data on Win 452AA would help. It's old and I can't find any info
  • tskrytskry Member Posts: 517
    edited November -1
    3.8 to 4.2 grains of red dot, I havent loaded these in quite some time but I checked my notes and I was using 4 grains of red dot with a 158gr bullet. All my notes say is 2" groups @ 30yds, I didnt keep real good records of my loads then so that is about all i have,

    A bit of advice if your just getting started, Keep a good record of everything, it will become useful someday.
  • bambambambambambam Member Posts: 4,818 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Which primer would I use. I made 10 loads yesterday and tested them today. I ended up with 3 bullets in the barrel. I asked around about my 3.3gr Red Dot/WSP primer load and my friends said powder bad or primer not igniting powder right. I saw a bullet sticking out of the end of my barrel after the 4th shot and it scared the out of me.
  • Hawk CarseHawk Carse Member Posts: 4,381 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It isn't the primer.
    A light load of fast burning powder and a jacketed bullet are not a good combination. There is much more friction between a copper jacket and the steel barrel than there is with a traditional greasy lead bullet. That can lead to bullets stuck in the barrel. But you know that.

    I suggest you invest in some loading manuals, Lyman is good.
    Speer does not even show .38 Special with heavy jacketed bullets in the 12th edition that I have, which might tell you something right there.

    An exact "recipe" for components you happen to have would just be a matter of luck. You have to learn what you can adapt and what you cannot. For example, I would not treat a 158 grain Speer jacketed bullet any different from a 158 grain Hornady jacketed bullet. I would not treat a 158 grain Missouri Cast Bullet any different from a 158 grain Laser Cast. But I would NOT treat a jacketed bullet the same as a lead bullet.

    There is a lot of discussion of "starting loads" and "working up" with "pressure signs." But there aren't many pressure signs in .38 Special, any normal load for it is really pretty mild.

    Edit to remove comments "contributing to the delinquency of handloaders." We are more cautious now than in the past.
  • bambambambambambam Member Posts: 4,818 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think thats good advice. I'm going to safe the JSP's for .357 loads then.
  • perry shooterperry shooter Member Posts: 17,105 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If you loaded 10 shells and stuck 3 in the barrel I suggest you Stop before you ruin the pistol Bulge the barrel or hurt yourself. Reloading is an ATTENTION to DETAIL job. Buy a reloading manual and read it then read it again then find someone that reloads and go visit them then go home and read the manual again. Then and only then use a load that is in the manual. Reloading is NOT like cooking where you might want to add a little of this or a little of that to the recipe. Currently you are doing something Wrong.
  • ButtButt Member Posts: 208 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Here's a load from Hodgdon. This is max +p load so start lite. Start load is 5.6 make sure you use a good roll crimp.

    158 Hornady XTP Hodgdon HS-6 6.6 926
    Remarks: COL: 1.455"; CUP: 18,700
  • dcs shootersdcs shooters Member Posts: 10,870 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Butt out[xx(]

    start load for HS-6 is 5.6 BUTT max is 62.grs. [:0][B)]

    Get it right [;)]
  • dcs shootersdcs shooters Member Posts: 10,870 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by bambambam
    Which primer would I use. I made 10 loads yesterday and tested them today. I ended up with 3 bullets in the barrel. I asked around about my 3.3gr Red Dot/WSP primer load and my friends said powder bad or primer not igniting powder right. I saw a bullet sticking out of the end of my barrel after the 4th shot and it scared the out of me.


    What are you shooting these loads out of [?]
  • ButtButt Member Posts: 208 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by dcs shooters
    Butt out[xx(]

    start load for HS-6 is 5.6 BUTT max is 62.grs. [:0][B)]

    Get it right [;)]


    good one[:D][xx(]
  • bambambambambambam Member Posts: 4,818 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ya i loaded 10 as a test run but i only fired 4. The forth shoved a bullet half way out and I saw it and stopped right then. I never loaded metalic before and wasn't sure what the red dot would sound like when fired thats how come it to me 4 shots and almost my life to fihure it out. I was told not enough powder and not right primer for powder? Total of 3 bullets lodged in gun. I drilled and tapped them with 1/4-20 and use a bolt and nut to pull them
    quote:Originally posted by perry shooter
    If you loaded 10 shells and stuck 3 in the barrel I suggest you Stop before you ruin the pistol Bulge the barrel or hurt yourself. Reloading is an ATTENTION to DETAIL job. Buy a reloading manual and read it then read it again then find someone that reloads and go visit them then go home and read the manual again. Then and only then use a load that is in the manual. Reloading is NOT like cooking where you might want to add a little of this or a little of that to the recipe. Currently you are doing something Wrong.
  • bambambambambambam Member Posts: 4,818 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have since made two test runs, yet to fire till my gun is checked. One cartrige is 158gr .38 spec loaded with 6.4gr HS6 and a WSP primer.
    Other load is same bullet with Unique 4.5gr and the WSP primer. Think those are safe?
  • bambambambambambam Member Posts: 4,818 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    GP-100 6" stainless
    quote:Originally posted by dcs shooters
    quote:Originally posted by bambambam
    Which primer would I use. I made 10 loads yesterday and tested them today. I ended up with 3 bullets in the barrel. I asked around about my 3.3gr Red Dot/WSP primer load and my friends said powder bad or primer not igniting powder right. I saw a bullet sticking out of the end of my barrel after the 4th shot and it scared the out of me.


    What are you shooting these loads out of [?]
  • Rocky RaabRocky Raab Member Posts: 14,439 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    bbb, my current copy of the Hodgdon Annual Manual shows a Start load of 5.6 HS-6 with the 158 Hornady XTP and a max of 6.2 grains. You are below the Start load with 5.4 and that might again risk sticking a bullet because 5.6 generates only 13,400 CUP and 760 fps. Frankly, I'd bump that load to 6.0 of HS-6 for perhaps 850 fps.

    Your 4.5 Unique ought to be fine.
    I may be a bit crazy - but I didn't drive myself.
  • babunbabun Member Posts: 11,038 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by perry shooter
    If you loaded 10 shells and stuck 3 in the barrel I suggest you Stop before you ruin the pistol Bulge the barrel or hurt yourself. Reloading is an ATTENTION to DETAIL job. Buy a reloading manual and read it then read it again then find someone that reloads and go visit them then go home and read the manual again. Then and only then use a load that is in the manual. Reloading is NOT like cooking where you might want to add a little of this or a little of that to the recipe. Currently you are doing something Wrong.


    There are many knowledgeable people on this site. BUT the above is the only answer you should heed. I am especially worried about your term "test runs". Reloading is not something you learn from test runs. Buy 3 reloading books and read them. You do realize a misprint or a decimal point in the wrong place can turn your test run into a finger and eye remover. After you get the basics down pat from published reloading books, then ask here for load recommendations.
  • gknaka2gknaka2 Member Posts: 461 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I 2nd what Babun and PS stated. I also want to add that, unless you have loaded the caliber in question, you really shouldn't be giving advice. I suspect a couple of the posters on this post have never loaded a .38 special so therefore cannot give any advice other than what they read in books, which anyone can do.

    I myself have loaded 1000s of .38 but even I am hesitant to give advice to the OP as I don't feel the OP has mastered the basic reloading technique to do it safely, with or without data.

    Just my $.02
  • reloader44magreloader44mag Member Posts: 18,783 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    With the components you posted....go with 5.0grs of Unique in your .38special....My plinking load with 38 special is a Winchester SP primer.. 4.5grs of Unique and a Laser-Cast 158gr LSWC bullet crimped fairly heavy with a OAL of 1.460...my two cents....reloader44mag
  • bpostbpost Member Posts: 32,669 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by bambambam
    Which primer would I use. I made 10 loads yesterday and tested them today. I ended up with 3 bullets in the barrel. I asked around about my 3.3gr Red Dot/WSP primer load and my friends said powder bad or primer not igniting powder right. I saw a bullet sticking out of the end of my barrel after the 4th shot and it scared the out of me.


    DO you have a reloading book?
    If not get the new Lyman and read it cover to cover.
  • reloader44magreloader44mag Member Posts: 18,783 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by bpost
    quote:Originally posted by bambambam
    Which primer would I use. I made 10 loads yesterday and tested them today. I ended up with 3 bullets in the barrel. I asked around about my 3.3gr Red Dot/WSP primer load and my friends said powder bad or primer not igniting powder right. I saw a bullet sticking out of the end of my barrel after the 4th shot and it scared the out of me.


    DO you have a reloading book?
    If not get the new Lyman and read it cover to cover.
    I agree ...I think the Lyman book is the best one. Goes for around 30 bucks new....might want to check Amazon or right here on GB
  • bambambambambambam Member Posts: 4,818 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks guys. I arrrived at the 6.4gr by looking at the hodgdon website in there reloading data. They give the load for .38 spec(HS6) to be 5.6gr start and 6.2MAX. The .38+P load is 6.6gr(HS6). SO, i decided to make a load that was 6.4gr which is in the middle of .spec and +P because I'm shooting the load in a GP-100(.357). I'm confident that the load safe.(Hodgdon showed the load w/ Hornady XTP which is the same bullet I have just not HP.

    Also alliante website gives .38 spec load of Unique to be 4.7gr and 5.2gr for .38+P.

    ALL 158gr bullet loads
  • reloader44magreloader44mag Member Posts: 18,783 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Make sure your scale is balanced and zeroed
  • bambambambambambam Member Posts: 4,818 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Another question.. someone mentioned crimping. I've heard alot of discussion on to crimp or not. What is the benifit of the crimp for this application?
  • ButtButt Member Posts: 208 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    There are some sticky's on this subject, but in short a roll crimp on a rimmed case cartridge will keep the bullet from jumping forward and locking up your cylinder.
    Your load of 3.3gr. Of red dot not a good powder for .38 sp. should have made it out of the barrel with a good crimp to hold pressure, maybe not? When you test new loads, load one, shoot, check firearm load one shoot check ect. Your lucky you didn't blow your gun and yourself up. Go slow and be safe.
  • WinMikeWinMike Member Posts: 144 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Welcome bambambam to the world of bullet reloading.

    I agree with all of those who recommend you get a good reloading manual and read it....and re-read it. Alas, your posts show me how the information available on the internet can be appear to simplify an important schedule of steps: screw up once, and it's easy to cause injury to yourself and others, as well as damage to property.

    As you can see by my post numbers, I'm new to this site. However, I'm not new to reloading, and have loaded several thousands of rounds in various calibers. Honestly, though, I started cringing as I read your successive posts. Yeow!

    Please take my chiding in the spirit given....I mean well, and want you to be safe!
  • bpostbpost Member Posts: 32,669 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by bambambam
    Another question.. someone mentioned crimping. I've heard alot of discussion on to crimp or not. What is the benifit of the crimp for this application?


    Read the two stickys at the top of the page Authored by Perry Shooter.
  • gregoryhart1gregoryhart1 Member Posts: 518 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I use Bullseye for my .38 loads. 3.0 gr under a 158 gr cast and a CCI small pistol primer. Cast works really well with the .38.
    GH1[:)]
  • bambambambambambam Member Posts: 4,818 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Are Wad cutters very accuate? When I look at them I just think junk. Should I be using them for target use or use copper plated?
  • WinMikeWinMike Member Posts: 144 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Wadcutters are the epitome of accuracy, particularly in the .38 Spl. Search this site for two good threads regarding same.

    Per hundreds of thousands of posts, most shooters prefer cast bullets vs. plated, not only because of accuracy, but because of lower powder requirements.

    However, if you're shooting in an indoor facility, you may be required (and justifiably so) to use plated or jacketed bullets.
  • reload999reload999 Member Posts: 3,080 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I sincerely hope the OP here takes some of the advise given. I don't mean to judge, but it seems he wants to rush to find a workable load for this application without really understanding the basics. I hope I am wrong, and I hope he does not have to learn a painful lesson.
  • bambambambambambam Member Posts: 4,818 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks for the insite. Is there a problem with lead transfer when handling these loads? I didn't know if they had a coating on them, but I sure that most probly just wash good when done loading.quote:Originally posted by WinMike
    Wadcutters are the epitome of accuracy, particularly in the .38 Spl. Search this site for two good threads regarding same.

    Per hundreds of thousands of posts, most shooters prefer cast bullets vs. plated, not only because of accuracy, but because of lower powder requirements.

    However, if you're shooting in an indoor facility, you may be required (and justifiably so) to use plated or jacketed bullets.
  • WinMikeWinMike Member Posts: 144 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    When I Googled your question, I got 2,239,876 answers that said, in effect, no.

    Your results should be similar.
  • bambambambambambam Member Posts: 4,818 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Anyone using Missouri Bullet or Oregan Trail lead in .38/.357?
  • remingtongeoremingtongeo Member Posts: 178
    edited November -1
    The crimp on straight wall cases are very important. The best load without a crimp will just go poof. You lose all consistency and what goes bang one time will go poof the next. EVERYONE should own the Lyman reloading manual and the more manuals the merrier.

    If you are stuck on the internet, go to Hornady's site and read everything about reloading on there. You have to understand ballistics to produce a good, safe load.
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