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new vs. used brass
Mr. Perfect
Member, Moderator Posts: 66,275 ******
Have any of you noticed appreciable differences in accuracy when using new vs. used brass for your loading/reloading?
Some will die in hot pursuit
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
Comments
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
my BAR 7mm likes new brass. i can have them relaoded once and the group will open up to 1.5". load them twice, and it will open up to 2"-3", third time and you never know where they will go
my FIL was mentioning that he can't load used brass for his Ruger #1, because the brass expands so much that the extractor can't extract it. I assumed it could have an effect on accuracy as well.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
does anyone carry with loads loaded into used brass?
I only use factory ammo for self defense and carry.
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
does anyone carry with loads loaded into used brass?
I only use factory ammo for self defense and carry.
As do I.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
does anyone carry with loads loaded into used brass?
I only use factory ammo for self defense and carry.
same here.
and not because i don't trust my reloads i just don't trust the legal system much and lets not leave out LAWYERS......
quote:Originally posted by jwb267
my BAR 7mm likes new brass. i can have them relaoded once and the group will open up to 1.5". load them twice, and it will open up to 2"-3", third time and you never know where they will go
my FIL was mentioning that he can't load used brass for his Ruger #1, because the brass expands so much that the extractor can't extract it. I assumed it could have an effect on accuracy as well.
Plain as day. The reloaded stuff is quite hotter than the factory stuff. That's the only reason a reloaded round used in the same gun would cause difficult extraction. Joe
Surely no concensus for using only new brass... contradicts the basics of accurate rifle shooting. Ask this question on the reloading forum.
how so? Why not answer this question here, where it's posted?
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
For those who carry only new ammunition in handguns, I submit they do not reload, or have no confidence in their reloads, or haven't tested their handloads well enough to find an optimum load which suits their firearm.
Why put it in the reloading forum? It will be read by those who fire "used" brass, and are familiar with the various facets of reloading, which would generate better discussion. Aside from which, the OP discusses loading/reloading... seems pretty self explanatory this is a 'reloading' forum question... IMO, of course.
fireformed brass is always the best. Now, after a few firings if you are loading them hot, you may need to anneal the necks to get the same neck tension back. The work hardening of the necks causes fluctuations in the neck tension, which will affect accuracy. With tight neck chambers however, it is less noticable than factory chambers.
Firing only new brass eliminates the advantages of 'fire formed' brass - fitting the case to the chamber it is fired in... and assumes those who are firing 'virgin' brass are FL sizing before firing (which is not a logical assumption), thus essentially making any case, new or used, the same size. What difference, then, in new or previously fired brass?
For those who carry only new ammunition in handguns, I submit they do not reload, or have no confidence in their reloads, or haven't tested their handloads well enough to find an optimum load which suits their firearm.
Why put it in the reloading forum? It will be read by those who fire "used" brass, and are familiar with the various facets of reloading, which would generate better discussion. Aside from which, the OP discusses loading/reloading... seems pretty self explanatory this is a 'reloading' forum question... IMO, of course.
there are a host of legal reasons for NOT carrying with your handloads.
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While sifting through my ashes
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Coming down the mountain
Examples?
quote:there are a host of legal reasons for NOT carrying with your handloads.
Examples?
prosecuters have charged the person defending themselves with handloads with "intentional maiming" etc etc. They say you loaded bullets meant to inflict major damage and wounds and paint the picture that the defendant was a "sick/mean/twisted/whatever" person who loaded these evil bullets. The jury is most likely firearm ignorant, and the guy who defended himself gets a prison sentence.
always carry factory ammo.
quote:there are a host of legal reasons for NOT carrying with your handloads.
Examples?
well, for one it would be quite easy for a prosecutor to paint you as reckless and dangerous because you used some "super hot" or "special" (i.e. more dangerous) load for your gun. Obviously, you were just looking for a fight. You weren't interested in self defense, you wanted to show off your macho load?
Now, we both know that wouldn't be the case. Likely your loads are merely tailored to function best in your particular weapon, but why give the prosecutor that argument to make?
Joe blow on the jury doesn't have a clue about reloading or its benefits. You'll be painted as a loose cannon and they will buy it, or at least have some doubt.
Commercial loads may not be as accurate, but they are good enough, and you take that argument away.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
I actually think factory loads - some of them, at any rate - could work against the defendant. Suppose the prosecutor takes the position that the defendant is a shooting hobbyist, and loads his own ammunition for all other purposes... but in his carry gun he is loading S**t hot, +P, Corbon hollow point man stoppers.... If I were prosecuting, I would ask why that particular bullet selection from a knowledgeable shooter, if not to inflict maximum harm/injury...?
However, if such a thing would happen, I think any good defense attorney could legitimize hand loading and shooting as a hobby.
At the 7-10 yard distance most shooting conflicts seem to occur in, I really don't think handloads or factory is gonna make much difference, but from about 20 - 30+ yards, I know my handloads outperform (accuracy) factory loads in my guns.
Whatever... but if the occasion arises, I'm gonna be defending myself with handloads.
I've heard that argument before, on this forum a few weeks ago, I think... someone asked for an actual example of a prosecutor using that logic in a prosecution - no one could cite an example.
I actually think factory loads - some of them, at any rate - could work against the defendant. Suppose the prosecutor takes the position that the defendant is a shooting hobbyist, and loads his own ammunition for all other purposes... but in his carry gun he is loading S**t hot, +P, Corbon hollow point man stoppers.... If I were prosecuting, I would ask why that particular bullet selection from a knowledgeable shooter, if not to inflict maximum harm/injury...?
However, if such a thing would happen, I think any good defense attorney could legitimize hand loading and shooting as a hobby.
At the 7-10 yard distance most shooting conflicts seem to occur in, I really don't think handloads or factory is gonna make much difference, but from about 20 - 30+ yards, I know my handloads outperform (accuracy) factory loads in my guns.
Whatever... but if the occasion arises, I'm gonna be defending myself with handloads.
that is your choice, but like I tried to point out, why give the prosecutor that angle with which to impart doubt? Sure your atty would rebut, but how effective is that going to be. you're already on the defensive, why be more so?
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
And my benchrest buds ONLY use fired brass.
CP
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
quote:Originally posted by jwb267
my BAR 7mm likes new brass. i can have them relaoded once and the group will open up to 1.5". load them twice, and it will open up to 2"-3", third time and you never know where they will go
my FIL was mentioning that he can't load used brass for his Ruger #1, because the brass expands so much that the extractor can't extract it. I assumed it could have an effect on accuracy as well.
Plain as day. The reloaded stuff is quite hotter than the factory stuff. That's the only reason a reloaded round used in the same gun would cause difficult extraction. Joe
I don't believe he loaded it hotter, but that could be the case.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
reloads for carry?..yes, as long as you know what you are doing while reloading and shoot these same loads at the range, and feel you can do as good a job or better then a factory machine loading thousands of rounds an hour, why not.
If you think using reloaded ammo to protect your life in a life or death situation will make you the bad guy , don't use reloads, or any other bullet that can due the job properly.
Please ..anyone who says that you will be prosecuted or blamed in some way for using reloads, give us specific cases in which this happened ,where, when, and outcome so we all will be properly informed to make our decision .
Quoting unknown sources and unsubstantiated stories helps no one.
The truth is out there...but what is it?
new brass or fired brass..as long as it is in good condition, fired brass is just as good and saves on reloading costs..
reloads for carry?..yes, as long as you know what you are doing while reloading and shoot these same loads at the range, and feel you can do as good a job or better then a factory machine loading thousands of rounds an hour, why not.
If you think using reloaded ammo to protect your life in a life or death situation will make you the bad guy , don't use reloads, or any other bullet that can due the job properly.
Please ..anyone who says that you will be prosecuted or blamed in some way for using reloads, give us specific cases in which this happened ,where, when, and outcome so we all will be properly informed to make our decision .
Quoting unknown sources and unsubstantiated stories helps no one.
The truth is out there...but what is it?
why does there have to be a case where it's happened for it to be a valid argument? The point is, the argument could be made, and IF it is made then you have more work to do. Potentially, it could not be overcome for any of a host of reasons, not the least of which is ignorant and gun scared jury members.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
quote:Originally posted by TANK78Z
new brass or fired brass..as long as it is in good condition, fired brass is just as good and saves on reloading costs..
reloads for carry?..yes, as long as you know what you are doing while reloading and shoot these same loads at the range, and feel you can do as good a job or better then a factory machine loading thousands of rounds an hour, why not.
If you think using reloaded ammo to protect your life in a life or death situation will make you the bad guy , don't use reloads, or any other bullet that can due the job properly.
Please ..anyone who says that you will be prosecuted or blamed in some way for using reloads, give us specific cases in which this happened ,where, when, and outcome so we all will be properly informed to make our decision .
Quoting unknown sources and unsubstantiated stories helps no one.
The truth is out there...but what is it?
why does there have to be a case where it's happened for it to be a valid argument? The point is, the argument could be made, and IF it is made then you have more work to do. Potentially, it could not be overcome for any of a host of reasons, not the least of which is ignorant and gun scared jury members.
X-RING[8] Remember, our beloved countymen voted for our current president. never underestimate the liberal mindset.[V]
Anyone reload 9mm, I have brass and steel from range days. I usually recycle it but will collect it for a giveaway if it has a calling.
That is a mighty fine offer.
I think it was lost in the other highjack of this thread around the subject of being sued for using "hot" loads.
I have personally left thousands of once fired 9mm brass on the ground. I suggest you start a new thread to see if anyone is interested. If they are, I'd be willing to drop a couple of handfulls in my range bag for you to share in a giveaway.
quote:Originally posted by TANK78Z
new brass or fired brass..as long as it is in good condition, fired brass is just as good and saves on reloading costs..
reloads for carry?..yes, as long as you know what you are doing while reloading and shoot these same loads at the range, and feel you can do as good a job or better then a factory machine loading thousands of rounds an hour, why not.
If you think using reloaded ammo to protect your life in a life or death situation will make you the bad guy , don't use reloads, or any other bullet that can due the job properly.
Please ..anyone who says that you will be prosecuted or blamed in some way for using reloads, give us specific cases in which this happened ,where, when, and outcome so we all will be properly informed to make our decision .
Quoting unknown sources and unsubstantiated stories helps no one.
The truth is out there...but what is it?
why does there have to be a case where it's happened for it to be a valid argument? The point is, the argument could be made, and IF it is made then you have more work to do. Potentially, it could not be overcome for any of a host of reasons, not the least of which is ignorant and gun scared jury members.
I'd beg to differ that notion. If I were that traumtized by the notion of defending mydelf in a court of law ... I'd never shoot anyone for any reason ... and never carry ... cause I'd never shoot anyone anyway.
We could all go around not carrying ... or carrying rubber band guns or paintball guns ... and only use same after all parties get theri goggles and protective gear on properly!
That notion not being my reality, it does not matter what I load my handgun with. I'd not expect anyone to be testifying against me for shooting them. So most of this supposing this way or that, is not relevant to me. [^]
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
quote:Originally posted by TANK78Z
new brass or fired brass..as long as it is in good condition, fired brass is just as good and saves on reloading costs..
reloads for carry?..yes, as long as you know what you are doing while reloading and shoot these same loads at the range, and feel you can do as good a job or better then a factory machine loading thousands of rounds an hour, why not.
If you think using reloaded ammo to protect your life in a life or death situation will make you the bad guy , don't use reloads, or any other bullet that can due the job properly.
Please ..anyone who says that you will be prosecuted or blamed in some way for using reloads, give us specific cases in which this happened ,where, when, and outcome so we all will be properly informed to make our decision .
Quoting unknown sources and unsubstantiated stories helps no one.
The truth is out there...but what is it?
why does there have to be a case where it's happened for it to be a valid argument? The point is, the argument could be made, and IF it is made then you have more work to do. Potentially, it could not be overcome for any of a host of reasons, not the least of which is ignorant and gun scared jury members.
I'd beg to differ that notion. If I were that traumtized by the notion of defending mydelf in a court of law ... I'd never shoot anyone for any reason ... and never carry ... cause I'd never shoot anyone anyway.
We could all go around not carrying ... or carrying rubber band guns or paintball guns ... and only use same after all parties get theri goggles and protective gear on properly!
That notion not being my reality, it does not matter what I load my handgun with. I'd not expect anyone to be testifying against me for shooting them. So most of this supposing this way or that, is not relevant to me. [^]
You've really had no experiences with lawyers, have you.[;)]
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
I'm in for the giveaway, thanks.
do we have a consensus? reloads relegated to general plinking.
Sorry I missed this.
I see little difference in accuracy between new and once or several times fired brass.
My loads in virgin brass do not seem to quite as accurate as (at least) once fired brass.
I can not tell you why though.
quote:Originally posted by TANK78Z
new brass or fired brass..as long as it is in good condition, fired brass is just as good and saves on reloading costs..
reloads for carry?..yes, as long as you know what you are doing while reloading and shoot these same loads at the range, and feel you can do as good a job or better then a factory machine loading thousands of rounds an hour, why not.
If you think using reloaded ammo to protect your life in a life or death situation will make you the bad guy , don't use reloads, or any other bullet that can due the job properly.
Please ..anyone who says that you will be prosecuted or blamed in some way for using reloads, give us specific cases in which this happened ,where, when, and outcome so we all will be properly informed to make our decision .
Quoting unknown sources and unsubstantiated stories helps no one.
The truth is out there...but what is it?
why does there have to be a case where it's happened for it to be a valid argument? The point is, the argument could be made, and IF it is made then you have more work to do. Potentially, it could not be overcome for any of a host of reasons, not the least of which is ignorant and gun scared jury members.
Well, if my Aunt had balls, she'd be my Uncle....If you don't have at least ONE example of this being used in SUCCESSFULLY in court, please stop spreading unfounded rumors.
The self defense legal argument depends on the load...
Just how it works in my world. You may be subject to a different reality