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new vs. used brass

Mr. PerfectMr. Perfect Member, Moderator Posts: 66,381 ******
Have any of you noticed appreciable differences in accuracy when using new vs. used brass for your loading/reloading?
Some will die in hot pursuit
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
«1

Comments

  • Duce1Duce1 Member Posts: 9,329
    edited November -1
    No I have not. But I always work up a load in the ammo I am reloading and tune it to the rifle I am loading for.
  • StingSting Member Posts: 629 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Question. If a person doesn't reload should he even save brass? (Some of it is steel looking). I've had some laying around for 10 years. Thanks.
  • Mr. PerfectMr. Perfect Member, Moderator Posts: 66,381 ******
    edited November -1
    yes! Then you can have a giveaway!
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    And fiery auto crashes
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    While sifting through my ashes
    Some will fall in love with life
    And drink it from a fountain
    That is pouring like an avalanche
    Coming down the mountain
  • StingSting Member Posts: 629 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I used to shoot at a range that sold reloads. I'd save them up to exchange every Saturday morning for fresh reloads. Then they went kaput.
  • lpaalplpaalp Member Posts: 951 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I see a difference for some rifles if I neck size... obviously no difference if FL resized. I only have a couple of rifles that I use this process for... too much trouble involved (for me) in the whole process of neck sizing & shoulder bumping for the most part. If I recall correctly, the difference is .25 to .35 MOA.
  • jwb267jwb267 Member Posts: 19,664 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    my BAR 7mm likes new brass. i can have them relaoded once and the group will open up to 1.5". load them twice, and it will open up to 2"-3", third time and you never know where they will go
  • Mr. PerfectMr. Perfect Member, Moderator Posts: 66,381 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by jwb267
    my BAR 7mm likes new brass. i can have them relaoded once and the group will open up to 1.5". load them twice, and it will open up to 2"-3", third time and you never know where they will go
    my FIL was mentioning that he can't load used brass for his Ruger #1, because the brass expands so much that the extractor can't extract it. I assumed it could have an effect on accuracy as well.
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    And fiery auto crashes
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    While sifting through my ashes
    Some will fall in love with life
    And drink it from a fountain
    That is pouring like an avalanche
    Coming down the mountain
  • Mr. PerfectMr. Perfect Member, Moderator Posts: 66,381 ******
    edited November -1
    does anyone carry with loads loaded into used brass?
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    And fiery auto crashes
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    While sifting through my ashes
    Some will fall in love with life
    And drink it from a fountain
    That is pouring like an avalanche
    Coming down the mountain
  • wpagewpage Member Posts: 10,201 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I like new cars and factory fresh.
  • CS8161CS8161 Member Posts: 13,596 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
    does anyone carry with loads loaded into used brass?


    I only use factory ammo for self defense and carry.
  • Mr. PerfectMr. Perfect Member, Moderator Posts: 66,381 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by CS8161
    quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
    does anyone carry with loads loaded into used brass?


    I only use factory ammo for self defense and carry.
    As do I.
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    And fiery auto crashes
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    While sifting through my ashes
    Some will fall in love with life
    And drink it from a fountain
    That is pouring like an avalanche
    Coming down the mountain
  • Mr. PerfectMr. Perfect Member, Moderator Posts: 66,381 ******
    edited November -1
    btt
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    And fiery auto crashes
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    While sifting through my ashes
    Some will fall in love with life
    And drink it from a fountain
    That is pouring like an avalanche
    Coming down the mountain
  • 41 nut41 nut Member Posts: 3,016
    edited November -1
    I'm not a super accurate target shooter so I have no first hand knowledge. However I have a friend who is a bench rest shooter who has won numerous matches over the past 20 or so years. He will only use new virgin brass for his match shooting saying that brass will not shoot the same the second time around.
  • Mr. PerfectMr. Perfect Member, Moderator Posts: 66,381 ******
    edited November -1
    do we have a consensus? reloads relegated to general plinking.
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    And fiery auto crashes
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    While sifting through my ashes
    Some will fall in love with life
    And drink it from a fountain
    That is pouring like an avalanche
    Coming down the mountain
  • lpaalplpaalp Member Posts: 951 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Surely no concensus for using only new brass... contradicts the basics of accurate rifle shooting. Ask this question on the reloading forum.
  • CHEVELLE427CHEVELLE427 Member Posts: 6,750
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by CS8161
    quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
    does anyone carry with loads loaded into used brass?


    I only use factory ammo for self defense and carry.


    same here.

    and not because i don't trust my reloads i just don't trust the legal system much and lets not leave out LAWYERS......
  • rabump199rabump199 Member Posts: 238 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Anyone reload 9mm, I have brass and steel from range days. I usually recycle it but will collect it for a giveaway if it has a calling.
  • givettegivette Member Posts: 10,886
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
    quote:Originally posted by jwb267
    my BAR 7mm likes new brass. i can have them relaoded once and the group will open up to 1.5". load them twice, and it will open up to 2"-3", third time and you never know where they will go
    my FIL was mentioning that he can't load used brass for his Ruger #1, because the brass expands so much that the extractor can't extract it. I assumed it could have an effect on accuracy as well.

    Plain as day. The reloaded stuff is quite hotter than the factory stuff. That's the only reason a reloaded round used in the same gun would cause difficult extraction. Joe
  • Mr. PerfectMr. Perfect Member, Moderator Posts: 66,381 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by lpaalp
    Surely no concensus for using only new brass... contradicts the basics of accurate rifle shooting. Ask this question on the reloading forum.
    how so? Why not answer this question here, where it's posted?
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    And fiery auto crashes
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    While sifting through my ashes
    Some will fall in love with life
    And drink it from a fountain
    That is pouring like an avalanche
    Coming down the mountain
  • lpaalplpaalp Member Posts: 951 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Firing only new brass eliminates the advantages of 'fire formed' brass - fitting the case to the chamber it is fired in... and assumes those who are firing 'virgin' brass are FL sizing before firing (which is not a logical assumption), thus essentially making any case, new or used, the same size. What difference, then, in new or previously fired brass?

    For those who carry only new ammunition in handguns, I submit they do not reload, or have no confidence in their reloads, or haven't tested their handloads well enough to find an optimum load which suits their firearm.

    Why put it in the reloading forum? It will be read by those who fire "used" brass, and are familiar with the various facets of reloading, which would generate better discussion. Aside from which, the OP discusses loading/reloading... seems pretty self explanatory this is a 'reloading' forum question... IMO, of course.
  • JustCJustC Member Posts: 16,056 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    benchrest shooters (the accuracy experts) use reloaded brass to set world records.

    fireformed brass is always the best. Now, after a few firings if you are loading them hot, you may need to anneal the necks to get the same neck tension back. The work hardening of the necks causes fluctuations in the neck tension, which will affect accuracy. With tight neck chambers however, it is less noticable than factory chambers.
  • Mr. PerfectMr. Perfect Member, Moderator Posts: 66,381 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by lpaalp
    Firing only new brass eliminates the advantages of 'fire formed' brass - fitting the case to the chamber it is fired in... and assumes those who are firing 'virgin' brass are FL sizing before firing (which is not a logical assumption), thus essentially making any case, new or used, the same size. What difference, then, in new or previously fired brass?

    For those who carry only new ammunition in handguns, I submit they do not reload, or have no confidence in their reloads, or haven't tested their handloads well enough to find an optimum load which suits their firearm.

    Why put it in the reloading forum? It will be read by those who fire "used" brass, and are familiar with the various facets of reloading, which would generate better discussion. Aside from which, the OP discusses loading/reloading... seems pretty self explanatory this is a 'reloading' forum question... IMO, of course.
    there are a host of legal reasons for NOT carrying with your handloads.
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    And fiery auto crashes
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    While sifting through my ashes
    Some will fall in love with life
    And drink it from a fountain
    That is pouring like an avalanche
    Coming down the mountain
  • lpaalplpaalp Member Posts: 951 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:there are a host of legal reasons for NOT carrying with your handloads.

    Examples?
  • JustCJustC Member Posts: 16,056 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by lpaalp
    quote:there are a host of legal reasons for NOT carrying with your handloads.

    Examples?


    prosecuters have charged the person defending themselves with handloads with "intentional maiming" etc etc. They say you loaded bullets meant to inflict major damage and wounds and paint the picture that the defendant was a "sick/mean/twisted/whatever" person who loaded these evil bullets. The jury is most likely firearm ignorant, and the guy who defended himself gets a prison sentence.

    always carry factory ammo.
  • Mr. PerfectMr. Perfect Member, Moderator Posts: 66,381 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by lpaalp
    quote:there are a host of legal reasons for NOT carrying with your handloads.

    Examples?
    well, for one it would be quite easy for a prosecutor to paint you as reckless and dangerous because you used some "super hot" or "special" (i.e. more dangerous) load for your gun. Obviously, you were just looking for a fight. You weren't interested in self defense, you wanted to show off your macho load?

    Now, we both know that wouldn't be the case. Likely your loads are merely tailored to function best in your particular weapon, but why give the prosecutor that argument to make?

    Joe blow on the jury doesn't have a clue about reloading or its benefits. You'll be painted as a loose cannon and they will buy it, or at least have some doubt.

    Commercial loads may not be as accurate, but they are good enough, and you take that argument away.
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    And fiery auto crashes
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    While sifting through my ashes
    Some will fall in love with life
    And drink it from a fountain
    That is pouring like an avalanche
    Coming down the mountain
  • Colonel PlinkColonel Plink Member Posts: 16,460
    edited November -1
    I reload for both hand gun and rifle. Granted, I've only been doing it a little over a decade, so I'm not perhaps as accomplished as some here on GunBroker. For the above mentioned reasons, I keep over-the-counter ammunition in my carry pistol. Not because I don't have confidence in my abilities to load, or create the most accurate ammunition for any given gun.
  • lpaalplpaalp Member Posts: 951 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I've heard that argument before, on this forum a few weeks ago, I think... someone asked for an actual example of a prosecutor using that logic in a prosecution - no one could cite an example.

    I actually think factory loads - some of them, at any rate - could work against the defendant. Suppose the prosecutor takes the position that the defendant is a shooting hobbyist, and loads his own ammunition for all other purposes... but in his carry gun he is loading S**t hot, +P, Corbon hollow point man stoppers.... If I were prosecuting, I would ask why that particular bullet selection from a knowledgeable shooter, if not to inflict maximum harm/injury...?

    However, if such a thing would happen, I think any good defense attorney could legitimize hand loading and shooting as a hobby.

    At the 7-10 yard distance most shooting conflicts seem to occur in, I really don't think handloads or factory is gonna make much difference, but from about 20 - 30+ yards, I know my handloads outperform (accuracy) factory loads in my guns.

    Whatever... but if the occasion arises, I'm gonna be defending myself with handloads.
  • Mr. PerfectMr. Perfect Member, Moderator Posts: 66,381 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by lpaalp
    I've heard that argument before, on this forum a few weeks ago, I think... someone asked for an actual example of a prosecutor using that logic in a prosecution - no one could cite an example.

    I actually think factory loads - some of them, at any rate - could work against the defendant. Suppose the prosecutor takes the position that the defendant is a shooting hobbyist, and loads his own ammunition for all other purposes... but in his carry gun he is loading S**t hot, +P, Corbon hollow point man stoppers.... If I were prosecuting, I would ask why that particular bullet selection from a knowledgeable shooter, if not to inflict maximum harm/injury...?

    However, if such a thing would happen, I think any good defense attorney could legitimize hand loading and shooting as a hobby.

    At the 7-10 yard distance most shooting conflicts seem to occur in, I really don't think handloads or factory is gonna make much difference, but from about 20 - 30+ yards, I know my handloads outperform (accuracy) factory loads in my guns.

    Whatever... but if the occasion arises, I'm gonna be defending myself with handloads.


    that is your choice, but like I tried to point out, why give the prosecutor that angle with which to impart doubt? Sure your atty would rebut, but how effective is that going to be. you're already on the defensive, why be more so?
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    And fiery auto crashes
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    While sifting through my ashes
    Some will fall in love with life
    And drink it from a fountain
    That is pouring like an avalanche
    Coming down the mountain
  • cpermdcpermd Member Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I prefer fired brass.
    And my benchrest buds ONLY use fired brass.

    CP
  • Mr. PerfectMr. Perfect Member, Moderator Posts: 66,381 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by givette
    quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
    quote:Originally posted by jwb267
    my BAR 7mm likes new brass. i can have them relaoded once and the group will open up to 1.5". load them twice, and it will open up to 2"-3", third time and you never know where they will go
    my FIL was mentioning that he can't load used brass for his Ruger #1, because the brass expands so much that the extractor can't extract it. I assumed it could have an effect on accuracy as well.

    Plain as day. The reloaded stuff is quite hotter than the factory stuff. That's the only reason a reloaded round used in the same gun would cause difficult extraction. Joe
    I don't believe he loaded it hotter, but that could be the case.
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    And fiery auto crashes
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    While sifting through my ashes
    Some will fall in love with life
    And drink it from a fountain
    That is pouring like an avalanche
    Coming down the mountain
  • TANK78ZTANK78Z Member Posts: 1,362 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    new brass or fired brass..as long as it is in good condition, fired brass is just as good and saves on reloading costs..
    reloads for carry?..yes, as long as you know what you are doing while reloading and shoot these same loads at the range, and feel you can do as good a job or better then a factory machine loading thousands of rounds an hour, why not.
    If you think using reloaded ammo to protect your life in a life or death situation will make you the bad guy , don't use reloads, or any other bullet that can due the job properly.
    Please ..anyone who says that you will be prosecuted or blamed in some way for using reloads, give us specific cases in which this happened ,where, when, and outcome so we all will be properly informed to make our decision .
    Quoting unknown sources and unsubstantiated stories helps no one.
    The truth is out there...but what is it?
  • Mr. PerfectMr. Perfect Member, Moderator Posts: 66,381 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by TANK78Z
    new brass or fired brass..as long as it is in good condition, fired brass is just as good and saves on reloading costs..
    reloads for carry?..yes, as long as you know what you are doing while reloading and shoot these same loads at the range, and feel you can do as good a job or better then a factory machine loading thousands of rounds an hour, why not.
    If you think using reloaded ammo to protect your life in a life or death situation will make you the bad guy , don't use reloads, or any other bullet that can due the job properly.
    Please ..anyone who says that you will be prosecuted or blamed in some way for using reloads, give us specific cases in which this happened ,where, when, and outcome so we all will be properly informed to make our decision .
    Quoting unknown sources and unsubstantiated stories helps no one.
    The truth is out there...but what is it?
    why does there have to be a case where it's happened for it to be a valid argument? The point is, the argument could be made, and IF it is made then you have more work to do. Potentially, it could not be overcome for any of a host of reasons, not the least of which is ignorant and gun scared jury members.
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    And fiery auto crashes
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    While sifting through my ashes
    Some will fall in love with life
    And drink it from a fountain
    That is pouring like an avalanche
    Coming down the mountain
  • JustCJustC Member Posts: 16,056 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
    quote:Originally posted by TANK78Z
    new brass or fired brass..as long as it is in good condition, fired brass is just as good and saves on reloading costs..
    reloads for carry?..yes, as long as you know what you are doing while reloading and shoot these same loads at the range, and feel you can do as good a job or better then a factory machine loading thousands of rounds an hour, why not.
    If you think using reloaded ammo to protect your life in a life or death situation will make you the bad guy , don't use reloads, or any other bullet that can due the job properly.
    Please ..anyone who says that you will be prosecuted or blamed in some way for using reloads, give us specific cases in which this happened ,where, when, and outcome so we all will be properly informed to make our decision .
    Quoting unknown sources and unsubstantiated stories helps no one.
    The truth is out there...but what is it?
    why does there have to be a case where it's happened for it to be a valid argument? The point is, the argument could be made, and IF it is made then you have more work to do. Potentially, it could not be overcome for any of a host of reasons, not the least of which is ignorant and gun scared jury members.

    X-RING[8] Remember, our beloved countymen voted for our current president. never underestimate the liberal mindset.[V]
  • bigoutsidebigoutside Member Posts: 19,443
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by rabump199
    Anyone reload 9mm, I have brass and steel from range days. I usually recycle it but will collect it for a giveaway if it has a calling.


    That is a mighty fine offer.
    I think it was lost in the other highjack of this thread around the subject of being sued for using "hot" loads.

    I have personally left thousands of once fired 9mm brass on the ground. I suggest you start a new thread to see if anyone is interested. If they are, I'd be willing to drop a couple of handfulls in my range bag for you to share in a giveaway.
  • Alan RushingAlan Rushing Member Posts: 8,805 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
    quote:Originally posted by TANK78Z
    new brass or fired brass..as long as it is in good condition, fired brass is just as good and saves on reloading costs..
    reloads for carry?..yes, as long as you know what you are doing while reloading and shoot these same loads at the range, and feel you can do as good a job or better then a factory machine loading thousands of rounds an hour, why not.
    If you think using reloaded ammo to protect your life in a life or death situation will make you the bad guy , don't use reloads, or any other bullet that can due the job properly.
    Please ..anyone who says that you will be prosecuted or blamed in some way for using reloads, give us specific cases in which this happened ,where, when, and outcome so we all will be properly informed to make our decision .
    Quoting unknown sources and unsubstantiated stories helps no one.
    The truth is out there...but what is it?
    why does there have to be a case where it's happened for it to be a valid argument? The point is, the argument could be made, and IF it is made then you have more work to do. Potentially, it could not be overcome for any of a host of reasons, not the least of which is ignorant and gun scared jury members.
    I'd beg to differ that notion. If I were that traumtized by the notion of defending mydelf in a court of law ... I'd never shoot anyone for any reason ... and never carry ... cause I'd never shoot anyone anyway.

    We could all go around not carrying ... or carrying rubber band guns or paintball guns ... and only use same after all parties get theri goggles and protective gear on properly!

    That notion not being my reality, it does not matter what I load my handgun with. I'd not expect anyone to be testifying against me for shooting them. So most of this supposing this way or that, is not relevant to me. [^]
  • Mr. PerfectMr. Perfect Member, Moderator Posts: 66,381 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Alan Rushing
    quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
    quote:Originally posted by TANK78Z
    new brass or fired brass..as long as it is in good condition, fired brass is just as good and saves on reloading costs..
    reloads for carry?..yes, as long as you know what you are doing while reloading and shoot these same loads at the range, and feel you can do as good a job or better then a factory machine loading thousands of rounds an hour, why not.
    If you think using reloaded ammo to protect your life in a life or death situation will make you the bad guy , don't use reloads, or any other bullet that can due the job properly.
    Please ..anyone who says that you will be prosecuted or blamed in some way for using reloads, give us specific cases in which this happened ,where, when, and outcome so we all will be properly informed to make our decision .
    Quoting unknown sources and unsubstantiated stories helps no one.
    The truth is out there...but what is it?
    why does there have to be a case where it's happened for it to be a valid argument? The point is, the argument could be made, and IF it is made then you have more work to do. Potentially, it could not be overcome for any of a host of reasons, not the least of which is ignorant and gun scared jury members.
    I'd beg to differ that notion. If I were that traumtized by the notion of defending mydelf in a court of law ... I'd never shoot anyone for any reason ... and never carry ... cause I'd never shoot anyone anyway.

    We could all go around not carrying ... or carrying rubber band guns or paintball guns ... and only use same after all parties get theri goggles and protective gear on properly!

    That notion not being my reality, it does not matter what I load my handgun with. I'd not expect anyone to be testifying against me for shooting them. So most of this supposing this way or that, is not relevant to me. [^]

    You've really had no experiences with lawyers, have you.[;)]
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    And fiery auto crashes
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    While sifting through my ashes
    Some will fall in love with life
    And drink it from a fountain
    That is pouring like an avalanche
    Coming down the mountain
  • oldrideroldrider Member Posts: 4,934 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I reload 9mm but only for practice ammo.

    I'm in for the giveaway, thanks.
  • guntech59guntech59 Member Posts: 23,188 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
    do we have a consensus? reloads relegated to general plinking.


    Sorry I missed this.

    I see little difference in accuracy between new and once or several times fired brass.

    My loads in virgin brass do not seem to quite as accurate as (at least) once fired brass.

    I can not tell you why though.
  • guntech59guntech59 Member Posts: 23,188 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
    quote:Originally posted by TANK78Z
    new brass or fired brass..as long as it is in good condition, fired brass is just as good and saves on reloading costs..
    reloads for carry?..yes, as long as you know what you are doing while reloading and shoot these same loads at the range, and feel you can do as good a job or better then a factory machine loading thousands of rounds an hour, why not.
    If you think using reloaded ammo to protect your life in a life or death situation will make you the bad guy , don't use reloads, or any other bullet that can due the job properly.
    Please ..anyone who says that you will be prosecuted or blamed in some way for using reloads, give us specific cases in which this happened ,where, when, and outcome so we all will be properly informed to make our decision .
    Quoting unknown sources and unsubstantiated stories helps no one.
    The truth is out there...but what is it?
    why does there have to be a case where it's happened for it to be a valid argument? The point is, the argument could be made, and IF it is made then you have more work to do. Potentially, it could not be overcome for any of a host of reasons, not the least of which is ignorant and gun scared jury members.


    Well, if my Aunt had balls, she'd be my Uncle....If you don't have at least ONE example of this being used in SUCCESSFULLY in court, please stop spreading unfounded rumors.
  • JustjumpJustjump Member Posts: 644 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If for some bizarre reason I got some brand new virgin brass (it has happened) It never is as accurate as the once fired from that gun. I won't use it to work up new loads till I've sent one down range.

    The self defense legal argument depends on the load...

    Just how it works in my world. You may be subject to a different reality
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